Mobile phones (Cell phones in US speak) and the 'Why don't you use the app?'

[DickyP]

Generally a mobile phone is a useful bit of kit but am I the only one who dislikes their all pervasiveness.

I dislike the fact that people expect me to be available at all hours day and night! Easily solved as when I don't want to available I don't take if with me but then I get the accusatory 'you weren't on your phone!'.

The 'why don't you use our secure app?' and the same time telling me to be aware of security issues., when the biggest single source for data and financial loss in UK, at least, is is stolen phones!

In particular on-line banking sites always ask why don't you use the app? My answer to this is why on earth would I use a screen 2 inches across when I can use one 26 inches across with my accounts package open on my other 26 inch screen next to it. No brainer. And I don't need access to my accounts when I'm out as I know how much I've got in my various accounts.

Lastly there is the e-mail problem - e-mail obviously works on a phone but it seems to me that a majority of users don't actually read their e-mails if they are more than a couple of lines long, and certainly don't read attachments.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I understand your viewpoint, @DickyP, because I get similar questions. I tell people "Now that I am retired and not on 24/7 call, I turn off my cell phone unless I want to make a call. If you want me, call my home phone and leave your message on the recorder. I'm DONE with the electronic leash, thank you very much." My doctor's office took a while to understand that I can live with my cell phone turned off. Still not sure if they really believe it or are temporarily humoring me. My car dealership hasn't learned that lesson yet, but they don't call me for anything unless the car is in the shop for some reason.

As to banking and any other financial issues, my days of working in a Navy environment included a LOT of seminars and training sessions. There is an old rule that says "If you can get to the front of the machine, you can own it." Which is why if my cell phone is stolen, the only things they get are a short contacts list that rarely includes U.S. Mailing addresses and it has NO e-mail addresses. I've never loaded up apps on the phone except for the one to remotely monitor my home generator. No bank apps, investment apps, no monetary apps of any sort.

 

[Isaac]

I'm a little like that too, Dicky - as in, when I'm really serious about something, I walk over to my computer with a real keyboard, mouse, and monitor and get to work on it. Although I've been doing some more things on the phone over the last year or two but it's still limited. I do like reading news articles on my phone and doing very basic banking things like Zelle-ing (sending) someone money or checking my balance.

As far as phone security, that's a whole different story. I'm conflicted on it, because it's so case-by-case basis. People have varying configurationg of security on their phone. I think a phone with a solid password or fingerprint protection on the screen (and a quick screen time-out) are relatively secure, but am no expert on the issue. Especially apple phones, although I hate to say it, being anti-apple myself.

In addition to a good screen lock, I also use Norton app lock for apps that I either 1) want double-security on, or 2) want to be able to 'share' (hand over) my phone to a family member or friend for a moment's use, generally unlocked, without that particular app being unlocked. I really like Norton App Lock, I use a special PIN for that app only and it double-secures various apps on my phone.

But I agree - for serious stuff, I usually walk over to the computer. I see my wife and daughter struggling away to fill out some form or other on their phone mobile website, it looks torturous

One thing I hate about mobile phones: The easy ability of app creators to DISABLE SCREENSHOTS. (banking apps and others).
On the computer I like it because NOBODY can stop me from hitting PrintScrn button !!

 

[Cotswold]

Totally agree Doc. I cannot see how a cell phone can be relied upon for banking and investments. I still have a 2G phone for the mobile but that shuts down in 2025.

You go to all the trouble to make your PC secure and then are expected to provide so much personal data on a digital cullender. On a phone you have a few so called security settings and no idea exactly what is actually being mopped up by Apple and Google. All they are interested in is your data. They have lobbied for the end of landlines because they cannot download that data. Via the cell phone they have just everything about you.
You tick the box that your location should be hidden but it is fairly clear that the setting is there just to cheer you up. Because your location is still available. Just in the same was that you set your telephone not to display your number but most government organisations se the number.

At Davos it was agreed that there should be a push towards ID cards, also linked to phones. The ID card will contain your medical history, all banking, investments and salary details. All of that information available to whichever jobsworth, or political quango asks for it. There was a time when the police needed a warrant to tap your phone line. Now they can simply demand your phone. You cannot create a google email without providing another email for so called recovery reasons. With an Android it is mandatory to create a google account. Even though you have no intention of buying anything. The T&Cs are only accepted under duress, as without agreement you cannot use the phone you have purchased. Maybe we are not far off the day when even the Watercooler will have to close down?

See www.thelightaustralia.com and specifically

https://thelightaustralia.com/assets/pdf/ISSUE-10-THE-LIGHT-FINAL-VERSION_SCREEN.pdf

There may be a little poetic license here and there but the long term intention is fairly clear. "They" now want this information simply because it is becoming possible to gather every tiny detail about you. How soon before chips are implanted into the new-born, which will be their ID card for life and totally unavoidable?

 

[ColinEssex]

I'm sure there are some politically obsessed here who will blame the left/right/liberals/democrats/republicans. Best option? Don't have a mobile phone.
Col

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Col, until Hurricane Katrina forced me to live several hundred miles away from my wife, I didn't have a cell phone. After Katrina struck, she needed a cell phone because the house phone was farshimmelt for several months and she was there, sometimes by herself, dealing with what we saved and identifying what had been tossed. I needed the cell phone so she and I could talk, and also so she could tell me what to buy while I was in Fort Worth Texas at our standby site. From that time until 2016, I was on 24/7 call. Once I retired, though, I cut the electronic leash. Now, it is for emergency calls only.

 

[ColinEssex]

Doc, I agree that in exceptional circumstances, and I can't imagine how difficult it was for you, a mobile phone is a lifeline. Hats off to you.
Col

 

[Pat Hartman]

There appear to be a few of us @DickyP
I never give my cell to anyone unless I am driving to meet them somewhere. And even then the instructions are clear. My phone lives in my purse. You will reach me if I am expecting your call or if I happened to be in my car and the phone happens to be charged. Do not under any condition leave a message.

My phone is a phone (except when it is a flashlight or camera) and it is for my convenience, not yours. There are no financial apps loaded on it. I don't even check email. It does have other apps but never if they insist on knowing my location or looking at stuff not related to their function

 

[AngelSpeaks]

Dicky, I'm with you. Last year I retired from tax preparation and you would be surprised at the number of people who felt entitled to my cellphone and to me 24/7. One time I made the mistake of texting my address to someone who couldn't be bothered to write it down and my reward was her constant texting and calling all hours, waking up my family. I would return her calls the next day using my business line with the instructions that during business hours I don't use my personal cellphone when I'm working but she was too stupid to follow simple instructions. I ended up blocking her number and not doing business with her. Oh and financial information is not on my phone. Phones are easily lost or stolen

 

[AccessBlaster]

My mom would always keep her cell phone turned off, so I asked her why? She Said I use it only for emergencies. I said what if your granddaughter had an emergency and needed to reach you? It never dawned on her it's a dual use device

 

[DickyP]

...
There may be a little poetic license here and there but the long term intention is fairly clear. "They" now want this information simply because it is becoming possible to gather every tiny detail about you. How soon before chips are implanted into the new-born, which will be their ID card for life and totally unavoidable?

I must I started the thread that about my dislikes, not based on any fear of big brother, but on their pervasiveness and the physical security of mobile thrones. It worries me that people entrust their whole life to their mobile phone but are happy to carry then in their back pockets and leave them on tables and bars.

 

[KitaYama]

It worries me that people entrust their whole life to their mobile phone but are happy to carry then in their back pockets and leave them on tables and bars.

I didn't want to engage here, mostly because I'm sure almost everyone is against me. But since this concerns comes up over and over, may I ask why do you think it's not safe? It seems that I'm one of those who worries you. Can you explain why you think my phone is less secure compared to a PC?

Just to give a clue about my (or any phone)

• Screen would be locked after 20 second inactivity.
• It's password protected with a 8 digit passcode, which I've never heard anyone has been able to brute force break into a phone.
• It's secured with my finger print.
• The phone is set to OnBody lock. (If you don't know what it is, it means if the phone is not on me (my body) it will lock itself)
• Sim card is password protected. It means that I have set a password for its sim. (12 characters). (it's different and in a much more secure level of OS security)
• In case I forget it on a table, or being stolen, I can uninstall OS/all apps remotely from FindMyPhone. FindMyPhone can be executed from any PC or any device with internet connection as long as I have my Google password.
• All my banking apps or credit cards have different passwords and need my finger print to open.
• My phone is carrier locked.

So, If my phone get stolen there's 3 possible scenarios.
1- Guessing my 8 digit passcode in 3 attempt. Otherwise it will go to deep sleep
2- Root my phone. Which means installing OS. Which wipes all apps first.
3- Reset. Which means need sim password.

If I'm robbed, first thing he has to do is brute force and break my password in 3 attempts. Which I think it's impossible.
OR
Cut my finger and take my finger too
Or
he has to replace the sim, to prevent me remote uninstall my apps. Well, it's carrier locked and impossible to switch it on with a different sim card.
OR
If the thief is a member of the group who has designed that phone, after replacing the sim (which is impossible), banking (and financial) apps need a re-verification of my identity which I hope you understand how it works and it's on another level of impossibility. (for the thief)

I appreciate if you explain what worries you here.
It seems that my phone is much more secure than your PC, because I can force myself into a locked PC secured with a password in less than an hour, but I don't think anyone can use any of my apps on my phone without me.
thanks.

 

[DickyP]

I didn't want to engage here, mostly because I'm sure almost everyone is against me. But since this concerns comes up over and over, may I ask why do you think it's not safe? It seems that I'm one of those who worries you. Can you explain why you think my phone is less secure compared to a PC?

Just to give a clue about my (or any phone)

• Screen would be locked after 20 second inactivity.
• It's password protected with a 8 digit passcode, which I've never heard anyone has been able to brute force break into a phone.
• It's secured with my finger print.
• The phone is set to OnBody lock. (If you don't know what it is, it means if the phone is not on me (my body) it will lock itself)
• Sim card is password protected. It means that I have set a password for its sim. (12 characters). (it's different and in a much more secure level of OS security)
• In case I forget it on a table, or being stolen, I can uninstall OS/all apps remotely from FindMyPhone. FindMyPhone can be executed from any PC or any device with internet connection as long as I have my Google password.
• All my banking apps or credit cards have different passwords and need my finger print to open.
• My phone is carrier locked.

So, If my phone get stolen there's 3 possible scenarios.
1- Guessing my 8 digit passcode in 3 attempt. Otherwise it will go to deep sleep
2- Root my phone. Which means installing OS. Which wipes all apps first.
3- Reset. Which means need sim password.

If I'm robbed, first thing he has to do is brute force and break my password in 3 attempts. Which I think it's impossible.
OR
Cut my finger and take my finger too
Or
he has to replace the sim, to prevent me remote uninstall my apps. Well, it's carrier locked and impossible to switch it on with a different sim card.
OR
If the thief is a member of the group who has designed that phone, after replacing the sim (which is impossible), banking (and financial) apps need a re-verification of my identity which I hope you understand how it works and it's on another level of impossibility. (for the thief)

I appreciate if you explain what worries you here.
It seems that my phone is much more secure than your PC, because I can force myself into a locked PC secured with a password in less than an hour, but I don't think anyone can use any of my apps on my phone without me.
thanks.

In passing I think you are living in cloud cuckoo land about how easy it is to get into a mobile. I can go onto my local market and go to a stall that will unlock any phone in less than 5 minutes. I agree with the relative ease of getting into a PC but you've got to deliberately get into my house first and use it. This implies that someone wants/needs to target me: I'm not going to casually leave it lying around in a pub. And I have the same level of app security.

However, that was NOT my point - do you have all the information on your phone readily available elsewhere? I guess you probably do. I was commenting on those people who have committed their entire life to their phone and will not be able to function without it.

Of course this is less cut and dried if you have a laptop which you carry around with you (and leave on trains etc if you are a civil servant!)

 

[AngelSpeaks]

Kita, here are my thoughts. I'm not sure what your favorite entertainment is, but I have seen enough TV shows and movies where someone clones someone else's phone to spy on them or steal information. Also, while I was a tax pro, the IRS was coming up with all kinds of data security requirements for us to follow because too many taxpayers had their identities stolen. You mentioned that you depend on FindMyPhone. How do you know you can really trust them.

Just about every app you install wants access to your Contacts, Camera, etc. Why?
If I do a search on something, ads for that appear on any social media sites that I go on. These billion dollar companies have way too much information on us just so they can spam us with their freaking ads. Yet if the government did that, lawsuits and riots would be all over.

Too many companies want our cellphone numbers so they can spam us with their stupid texts. When I refuse to give my number, they are shocked. I still keep my landline, which I rarely answer. My cellphone is for my convenience. And I am not even going to try to remember or keep a list of long passwords for many sites, accounts, etc. I'm not going to use a fingerprint because I have nothing to hide from my husband should he need to access my phone or for me to access his.

 

[KitaYama]

those people who have committed their entire life to their phone and will not be able to function without it.

That's exactly me

 

[The_Doc_Man]

In the final analysis, @KitaYama, it is about trust. Do you trust the security level of your cell phone? I don't trust mine and have no desire to spend the time and money it would take to ensure cell phone safety. I therefore use it in a limited usage category of emergency notification, primarily outbound calls, and short texting. Plus a few entries on the calendar and simple shopping list notes.

I didn't want to engage here, mostly because I'm sure almost everyone is against me.

I know you and I have different opinions on a lot of things, but this dependence on your phone is your choice. I will simply say I cannot make the same choice. However, at the same time I will concede that many people have gone the same direction you have gone on this topic. I absolutely do not condemn you for it.

I DO have to ask one thing, though. Do some of the confrontations here make you feel that we don't respect you? (To the point of feeling that "everyone is against" you?) I sincerely hope I have not contributed to such feelings of incipient paranoia. Yes, you and I sometimes disagree, but I can honestly say that I do not disrespect you as a person. At most I might disagree with your opinion sometimes. And I am sure that most of our differences stem from our differences in life experiences. We are what life has made us, each growing up in a different culture. But in south Louisiana we respect one popular French phrase: Vive le difference!

 

[KitaYama]

I DO have to ask one thing, though. Do some of the confrontations here make you feel that we don't respect you?

Never.
When I said I didn't want to engage, I had a different thought. I may not be able to explain clearly what I meant, but it may give you the idea.

Two persons have different thoughts on the same matter, and they go into a discussion to explain their side of view.
This discussion can be one of following cases.
1- They want to prove their side is correct.
2- They want to listen to each other and judge if they are right or not. Then decide to change path if necessary.

I think the second case is a constructive way of exchanging idea. If I see a case like this, I'm more than happy to be engaged. But to be honest, most discussions, is far from this, and tend to be the first one.

I've never seen in my life that an atheist and a believer start a discussion and one of them agrees with the other.
Just like when a liberal and a conservative start talking. Have you ever seen someone from trump side agrees to a Biden supporter? and visa verse.

Not only here, but even with my friends, I don't engage to a discussion that the whole purpose of it, is "I'm correct. You are wrong".

One more thing that should be mentioned, we both live in a very different cultures. I've never been there and it's really hard to imagine your situation. Without knowing the daily life of a person in a different country, How can I say what is right and what is wrong. When even myself don't know if my idea can be used in your situation, what's the use of being engaged in a discussion?

So simply sitting and reading, is more peaceful for both sides.

In case of this thread, I really am sure no one will change his/her idea about their phones. So, engaging in this thread, is somehow wasting each other's time. So I really didn't want to waste both sides time on a non-ending discussion.
But I saw many members believe a phone is not secure enough to be used for banking and financial purposes. Just wanted to share my 2 cents.

es, you and I sometimes disagree, but I can honestly say that I do not disrespect you as a person.

You don't need to say this. Everybody here, me included, are aware of your kind nature. Disagreeing with each other never means disrespecting, and I've never felt disrespected by you or any other member here.

I'm terribly sorry for choosing the wrong words that might have caused this doubt for you. But you know that someone with English as a third language, may have had a hard time for choosing suitable words.

 

[KitaYama]

Kita, here are my thoughts. I'm not sure what your favorite entertainment is, but I have seen enough TV shows and movies where someone clones someone else's phone to spy on them or steal information. Also, while I was a tax pro, the IRS was coming up with all kinds of data security requirements for us to follow because too many taxpayers had their identities stolen. You mentioned that you depend on FindMyPhone. How do you know you can really trust them.

We both know there are a lot of things that only happens in movies. Even if it's possible, it's not really something that everyone can do it. A thief who robs my phone when I leave it on a table while eating my lunch, is far from these possibilities. What @DickyP said that there are tools to unlock a phone in less than 5 minutes, to be honest, for me is beyond being believable.
For the average person, breaking into an iPhone without knowing the passcode could take months and years due to passcode timeouts, encryption, and potential data erasure after multiple failed attempts.
For sophisticated organizations with expensive tools, it could take hours to days, depending on the specific circumstances and the model of the Phone.
Law enforcement and certain organizations may use advanced tools like GrayKey or Cellebrite, which have been reported to bypass passcodes on Phones. However, these tools are expensive, not widely available, and there are regularly released updates to patch security holes that these tools exploit.

Just about every app you install wants access to your Contacts, Camera, etc. Why?
If I do a search on something, ads for that appear on any social media sites that I go on. These billion dollar companies have way too much information on us just so they can spam us with their freaking ads. Yet if the government did that, lawsuits and riots would be all over.

For me convenience and privacy is like a scale or balance. You sacrifice a bit of each for the other.
You need perfect privacy, you have to close all doors, stay home and search what you need in a news paper. While I understand your concern, but I don't mind giving away a part of my privacy to lead a more convenient life. I'm looking for a shoe. It doesn't heart me if Google or Instagram knows what I'm looking for. Because while I'm looking in reels and videos, the ads are what I need.
They show the ad in any case. FOR ME, it's more convenient to see an ad of what I'm planning to purchase.

I'm not going to use a fingerprint because I have nothing to hide from my husband should he need to access my phone or for me to access his.

Any phone that comes with a fingerprint security, can be bypassed with a passcode.
Setting finger print for securing your device is a must (in my opinion)
My wife and me, know each other's passcode. Our phones are everywhere and we use each other's phone. There are times that I use her phone to call a friend because her phone's on the table, there are times she use mine to purchase something. We don't have anything to hide from each other, but our devices are secured with finger print in case of being lost, forgotten or anything else.

 

[KitaYama]

You mentioned that you depend on FindMyPhone. How do you know you can really trust them.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand this. Trust whom? Someone robs my phone. I login to my google account and lock my phone with a long new passcode. Trust whom? Google? I just want the thieves not being able to access the contents of my phone.

 

[Isaac]

You will reach me if I am expecting your call or if I happened to be in my car and the phone happens to be charged. Do not under any condition leave a message

I'm similar (only answer known / expected calls), but the opposite in the very last item - if anyone calls me that I don't know, I don't answer, but if they don't leave a voicemail, I assume they weren't serious/didn't need to reach me. Only voicemails get returned - not missed calls