Mobile phones (Cell phones in US speak) and the 'Why don't you use the app?'

[Cotswold]

I'm sorry for this stupid question. But since it's the second time it's been mentioned, I can't help it.
Don't they use barcodes when checking out? Here, Every item has a barcode and the clerk or staff, just reads the barcode. So how it's possible to be charged more than the real price?

The shelf price does NOT always match the price that the barcode relates to when you till out. I'm surprised that you've not noticed that fact of life? Where do you think the barcode and shelf prices come from? Most differences are when a shelf item becomes an offer on promotion and the barcode update is a few hours behind.

When I go around a supermarket I'll add up in my head as I put the items in the trolly/basket. I can remember the shelf price for hours or days sometimes. When I've tilled out I expect that the total is the same as I've totalled in my head as a little test. If it doesn't then I'll find the error on the receipt and get reimbursed. (unless they have undercharged me of course, in which case I may miss pointing the error out!)
As I probably said earlier, people are far too trusting and rely totally in technology always being 100% correct. Which it isn't. The only thing you can rely on with a till receipt is the total will always match to sum of the items listed. Most just presume without checking. As it certainly appears to be the case with you.

I knew a guy with a souvenir shop in a seaside town and all of the items in the window had a price ticket on them. Some would come in and ask the price and he'd add 50% and tell them that price. They'd then happily pay him and walk out with their overcharged souvenir.
From what you have said, maybe you were one of those souvenir shoppers who looked and didn't actually see?

 

[DickyP]

Doc, I don't want to negate anything or prove you're wrong. Just passing some info.
With recent digital life (the one that DickyP believes is not a real life) these kind of problems are vanishing.
Recent credit cards come with a planted IC chip.
Here, when you use a credit card, either for online purchase or in shop purchase, you insert the cared in a reader and push your 4 digit pin security password, and open a security app on your mobile. The reader contacts with the organization that has issued the card (bank, businesses, etc). They send you an encrypted one time password to your app. This password can be used only for 30 seconds. You input the password on the reader and pay the fee. You're late and don't enter the passcode in 30 seconds, you must ask for a new passcode.
We call this system "3D security", you may have a different name. So having the receipt really is not helpful. If you want, I can send you any of my cards full number. Each bank or organization that issues a credit card, has its own app with its special method. They are not all the same.

One more step over it, We have a insurance on our cards. (possibly you have too). Last year there was a huge unknown fee on our company's corporate credit card. There was an extra $3000 on our payment. We called the bank and per their investigation, there was 12 times of purchases with our card in Australia. (mostly shampoo and bath items). The insurance paid for $3000 and it was done only with one call and 10 minutes of our time. Of course they banned the card number and sent us a new one.

Yours sounds excellent process to me. And that's where it all falls down for the USA and the UK. People just are not willing to engage in security. They just flash their contactless card and wander off. No idea what they have been actually charged and far worse, no interest.

Indeed talking to an American banker friend of mine who retired recently, the USA never truly adopted chip and pin and just wanted to sign.

This difference in general usage between yours and ours explains a lot of the difference in attitudes described through the thread. Many of we contributors are a bit older (if not wiser) and are thus more sceptical of electronic finance. And you must remember in UK, at least, an original paper receipt trumps all in a dispute over a payment.

 

[Pat Hartman]

So how it's possible to be charged more than the real price?

Sometimes the shelf price and the computer price are out of sync. The problem is that with barcodes, the stores no longer mark the price on the items individually so there is nothing you can compare once you take the stuff home. What i look at in the store is the special sales to make sure I see the discounts. Otherwise, it's just an approximation. If I've got a full basket, I probably haven't kept a running total but if it is a few items, I know approximately what the bill will be. I had a situation recently where I didn't get the sale price. So maybe once in a blue moon, I notice something off but it is pretty rare. Barcodes have eliminated most mistakes, at least at the grocery store.

 

[DickyP]

I'm sorry for this stupid question. But since it's the second time it's been mentioned, I can't help it.
Don't they use barcodes when checking out? Here, Every item has a barcode and the clerk or staff, just reads the barcode. So how it's possible to be charged more than the real price?

Two problems here - an item can more than one shelf price in UK(for instance if you are using a Loyalty Card) and in the USA, the shelf price is normally pre-tax so it's not what you pay at the till anyway (usage and tax rates vary by state).

 

[The_Doc_Man]

(usage and tax rates vary by state).

And just to thicken the gumbo, those tax rates that vary by state may ALSO vary based on the product in question. For instance, baby food is taxed at a lower rate than ordinary frozen dinners. Luxury items like jewelry are taxed higher. Therefore, knowing the "label" price doesn't tell you the taxed price because of that category variability.

To add one more touch of spice to the mix, in the USA each county or parish can add a small sales tax to the lump - which is why a few decades ago, when Orleans Parish added an extra 0.5% to the local sales tax they already had, all the car, appliance, and furniture stores moved to other parishes. I remember during my childhood that many stores had a pre-printed tax sheet at the register to look up the tax amount for their parish because the cash registers of that time weren't yet capable of computing the tax rates. That was 70+ years ago when computers were sill based on vacuum tube logic circuits (thus filling and heating a room at the same time), and the computers based on discrete transistor circuit boards were still maybe a decade away.

 

[Slap]

@all you are missing/underplaying the Japanese culture. Mistakes are unacceptable historically so to accept a barcode scan is normal. If it's wrong then someone notices/confesses and the customer is compensated.

Aside from your phone being snatched while unlocked (common in big cities in the UK) you really don't have much to worry about.

Scams themselves are a different matter and mostly the old adage of "if it's too good to be true" should be everyone's starting point. Unfortunately greed often overrides caution.

 

[ColinEssex]

I'm sorry for this stupid question. But since it's the second time it's been mentioned, I can't help it.
Don't they use barcodes when checking out? Here, Every item has a barcode and the clerk or staff, just reads the barcode. So how it's possible to be charged more than the real price?

The price displayed on the shelf may be lower than the scanned barcode price.
Col

 

[ColinEssex]

If I sound paranoid, maybe I am. . .

No comment.
Col

 

[KitaYama]

Well, now I see where all the problems come from. Here, when there's a sale or for some reason there's a difference with prices, they put a new barcode OVER the previous barcode. It's the only way we can see the difference.
I think these images give you a better understanding.

As you see, it's how we understand there's a discount. And when we take the item to the cashier, There's no possible way the barcode is different. Because the previous barcode is under the discount barcode.

In the same shelf, there's always some items with discount, some are not. (Because of expiration date or expiry date)
So if you want a discount, you take the yellow tags.
Yellow tag means discount. Not yellow, it's normal. You don't need to check the shelf price .
AND
if the discount is because of the expiration date, you have only two days. Be quick in consuming it.

 

[KitaYama]

When I've tilled out I expect that the total is the same as I've totalled in my head as a little test.

@Cotswold You have a talent for math. Please let me give a rest to my brain's cells at least when I'm shopping. I just want to enjoy that 10 minutes and be away of my job,

As a note to all, recent DIGITAL life, has new and good benefits. Shopping cart comes with a check out system. The moment you put something in your cart, your monitor on the cart shows the price of the item you added, and the total price of items in the cart. So you know if the barcode on the item match the shelf price (which is impossible not to be, because of how the sales are controlled per my above images).

 

[KitaYama]

Two problems here - an item can more than one shelf price in UK(for instance if you are using a Loyalty Card) and in the USA, the shelf price is normally pre-tax so it's not what you pay at the till anyway (usage and tax rates vary by state).

Here, showing the pre-tax and after-tax prices on the barcode is the law.
Your shop will be closed if you don't have both prices. Anything. From 1 yen up to when you buy a house.

You can also see above images.

 

[KitaYama]

@all you are missing/underplaying the Japanese culture. Mistakes are unacceptable historically so to accept a barcode scan is normal. If it's wrong then someone notices/confesses and the customer is compensated.

Aside from your phone being snatched while unlocked (common in big cities in the UK) you really don't have much to worry about.

Scams themselves are a different matter and mostly the old adage of "if it's too good to be true" should be everyone's starting point. Unfortunately greed often overrides caution.

I think there's another side to this story. We simply are afraid to be blamed for a mistake. We have a saying here. "A customer is THE God".
So shops and manufacturers do anything to satisfy the customers. You do a mistake as a head of a shop, I will never go to that store again. End of story.
So keeping customers satisfied, is the first rule of business. It's not only shops. It goes up to huge corporations like Hitachi, Toyota , ....

And if a staff makes a mistake and a customer is not satisfied, the blames goes to the staff. So everyone is just trying not to be blamed for a mistake.
This, brings layers and layers of precautions on staff jobs.
Also, Anyone who stands as a staff of an organization, in some points becomes a customer in his/her normal life. So he, as a customer, has his own expectations. So when he stands as a staff, tries to understand, respect and response the customer's feeling. (I can't find suitable words. I hope I could write as good as some of you)

Foreigners call us robots in Instagram and X. Maybe they are correct. I'm not sure being a robot is a good habit or not.
But Personally, I, as a single part/unit of our company (can not find the suitable word for it), don't want to be blamed for a mistake. So I go over and over with different layers of tests to see if what I did today was correct.
During hundreds years of this behavior, respecting the other side has become a part of our nature. But if you dig up good, you'll see that actually we are only cowards, terrified of mistakes.

 

[KitaYama]

@all We have two types of expiration date here. I can't find the correct word. Can anyone help?

1- Shoumi Kigen : A date that the item is not as delicious as it's been advertised. It's not expired and doesn't make you sick. It MAY not be as delicious as you may think. Buy it on your own risk. (Taste is not guaranteed)
2- Shohi Kigen : A date that is past health guarantee. It MAY make you sick if you eat.

Any kind of food/drink or anything that goes into one's body has these two dates.
Google translate gives me Expiration date in both cases.

@DickyP Sorry for dragging your phone thread into another direction. Will never happen again. Promise.

 

[KitaYama]

knew a guy with a souvenir shop in a seaside town and all of the items in the window had a price ticket on them. Some would come in and ask the price and he'd add 50% and tell them that price. They'd then happily pay him and walk out with their overcharged souvenir.

From what you have said, maybe you were one of those souvenir shoppers who looked and didn't actually see?

Can I be frank with you here? To be honest, I don't care to be over-charged an item I purchase. I don't like to spend my whole life terrified if the 100 yen I just paid for a drink was really 100 or it was 90 and the shop cheated me. 10/100/1000 yen up and down has no effect in my life. I won't die because of an over-charged fee. I prefer to be in peace and believe the shop is honest rather than suspect everybody is trying cheating me.

I think "Let the shop over charge me, rather than I think he's a liar."
Yeah, I will pay the 50% up and will never say why.
I'm exactly one of those fool shoppers you asked if I am.

I respect others and try to be honest with others and expect and believe they are honest too. If they are not, they have to live with their dirty self.

I just don't want to judge and suspect everyone, for the sins of a few.
Call me stupid, but it's what I am.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

We have two types of expiration date here.

In the USA there is at least one such date, but two dates? Rare.

We have the "best if used by" date (or simply "use by" date). However, sometimes there will be a second date as a note to the seller but not shown on the product itself, an "expired by" date. I don't recall ever seeing two dates but there are several code numbers that may have a hidden meaning. I don't think anyone wants to have a "don't sell after" date on public display. We aren't quite as error-averse as your culture. In a way it is good, because people CAN make mistakes. We're only human, last time I looked at it. It is also bad because there are "bad actors" who will make excuses to avoid liability for their gross negligence. Which is why the USA has the reputation of being lawsuit-happy. We do it because we NEED to hold some folks to task for their errors and wilful disregard for safety.

 

[Cotswold]

@Cotswold You have a talent for math. Please let me give a rest to my brain's cells at least when I'm shopping. I just want to enjoy that 10 minutes and be away of my job,

Supermarket shopping is simply a necessary but time wasting part of life, following a load of fat arses around the store. Doing the maths adds a little interest to the operation. But in the end I'm not very good at inactivity. So switching off isn't something I tend to do.

 

[ColinEssex]

In the UK, we have several dates. We have 'sell by' for fresh products like meat etc. We have 'use by' and 'best before'.
The yellow sticker indicates an item is 'reduced to clear' indicating it has reached its sell by date.
Col

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I have to admit I have gotten a few of the "Grandpa, it's me" calls. However, I usually shut them up by advising them that I happen to know where all of my grandsons live, and the caller ID that says "North Carolina state prison" isn't one of those places.

Once, a long time ago, I ran into a "confidence man" who managed to get $50 out of me and who then left before I realized what was going on. I learned a lesson about "sob stories" as we call them, when someone claims to be down on his luck, I take a more careful viewpoint.

 

[DickyP]

@DickyP Sorry for dragging your phone thread into another direction. Will never happen again. Promise.

Don't apologise - I personally am delighted you did - it has been a fascinating cultural exchange lesson. Anyway the thread was under Water Cooler so it's the sort of way these discussion around the watercolour go in real life.

 

[Pat Hartman]

So keeping customers satisfied, is the first rule of business.

This used to be the rule in the US also. My first job when I was in high school was for the retail giant of the era, Sears & Roebuck. They gave me a test which years later I realized was a psychological test to see if I was inclined to fight with the customers. At Sears, the customer was ALWAYS right. On Saturday I worked the counter in the catalog department. Never a week went buy that I didn't accept old, broken stuff for return - with a smile.