Question related to speed of light. (2 Viewers)

The_Doc_Man

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While theoretically present in all cases, most speeds that we can reach do not trigger effects that are measurable on a gross object. Therefore, any pendulum resilient enough to still exist after being hit by your rifle bullet will change momentum based on the simple formula of mass x velocity giving a number of foot-pounds or kg-meters or whatever system you are using, and the relativistic effects of something so slow as a rifle bullet will be very nearly too small to measure.

Here is the case that maybe will anchor some of this discussion. There is no absolute frame of reference, but there is an absolute limit for one thing - speed. Nothing in the physical universe travels faster than light.

One can argue that a particular photon could represent a frame of reference. The noticeable aging and mass effects predicted by the Lorenz-Fitzgerald (and related) equations only occur when you try to join the frame of reference of a photon that happens to be going in your desired direction. As you approach that frame of reference, your time dilation and mass accretion become significant. When you accelerate in the opposite direction from that photon (notice I did not say "decelerate"), your time flow becomes closer to other frames of reference that might even have people in them. They would see effects based on just how close you came to joining that photon's frame of reference. But YOU wouldn't see any effects at all until you rejoined a frame of reference where comparison became possible. (See? You can't get away from relativity because such comparisons are how you RELATE to something.)

Outside of the case of trying to join a photon, no other speeds make a significant difference, though long-term effects HAVE been measured for objects that reached orbital speeds, stayed that way, and then returned to frames of reference slower than the orbital situation. The more significant issue was that the returned objects were ALSO farther away from the frame of reference for photons.

I believe one of the objects in question was a digital clock or watch with a mechanism that counted vibrations of a quartz-based oscillator. There were predictable effects that included time dilation and mass inflation. Mass affects quartz oscillator vibration rates AND increased speed ALSO slows down apparent vibration rate, both of which were computable for the long-term conditions of being in orbit for a longer period of time. So we know that the effects are real.

If you can't wrap your head about the relativity issues any other way, here is your anchor point. Your speed with respect to cars, planes, boats, or trains is immaterial. The ONLY thing that noticeably affects is you is how close or how far you are from the frame of reference of photons that happen to be going in your direction. If you accept that the term "deceleration" only makes sense as "accelerating in the opposite direction from where I was originally pointed" then you can try to accelerate to the speed of light and can then decelerate from it. (But notice that "decelerate" only makes sense in RELATIVE terms, even as ACCELERATE only makes sense as relative to something else.)
 

Galaxiom

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Let's try a real world one instead.

Astronaut leaves earth to dock and board the ISS.

He goes from zero to low earth orbit at about 17,500 mph in about 10 minutes. During this phase what happens with his time as compared to back on earth. My understanding has been his clock will be slightly behind earth time.

He stays on the ISS for 6 months. What happens to time in this "steady" velocity situation?

He then re enters and so goes from 17,500 mph to zero. What happens to time during this phase?

It isn't about acceleration. Only the speed counts in the time dilation. It will just be the dilation integrated over the trip according to the instantaneous speeds.

Lastly, it is simple to calculate the kinetic energy and momentum of a rifle bullet. However, is the "true" KE and momentum 1.0000000 etc.% greater than my calculation gives. If the bullet strikes a ballistic pendulum does the pendulum swing back a distance that is 1.0000000 etc.% greater than the calculation would show?
There is no "true" kinetic energy. The measurement depends on the frame of reference from where it is measured because both the mass and velocity depend on the measurement frame.

The relativistic effects seen by an observer who is at the same frame as the fulcrum of the pendulum would be: The length of the bullet is reduced, the clock inside the bullet is ticking slowly and the bullet is measured to be approaching at a lower velocity than the speedo on the bullet shows.

However, the bullet's momentum is not affected by relativistic effects from all frames of reference. The reduction in measured speed (as measured from the fulcrum) will be compensated by an increase in the mass.

The pendulum will be moved by the amount of momentum transferred, which will be the same from all frames. But both the pendulum speed and mass will be different for different observer frames.

If you think about it, the momentum cannot be affected by Relativity, otherwise the resulting paths after a collision between two bodies would be different depending on the observation frame of reference, which would clearly not make any sense since there is only one path the object can take.
 

Mike375

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The pendulum will be moved by the amount of momentum transferred, which will be the same from all frames. But both the pendulum speed and mass will be different for different observer frames.

If you think about it, the momentum cannot be affected by Relativity, otherwise the resulting paths after a collision between two bodies would be different depending on the observation frame of reference, which would clearly not make any sense since there is only one path the object can take.

So are you saying the mass of the pendulum is increased like the bullet and so the distance the pendulum swings back is the same as the simple calculation would show.

If apply a force to give a body 1g then a simple V=U+AT will have that body at the speed of light in just under a year. I have read that when the increase of mass is factored in (but force stays the same) it will be at 77% speed of light and I think it was something like 90% after 12 years. Is this correct?
 

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