Religion (1 Viewer)

[Greyowlsl]

This thread is to spur off your ideas on religion of all kinds.

Personally im athiest. My thoughts on religion are that it makes people happy believing that they are doing gods will even if they have to obey rules, for us athiests we dont have to obey rules but we dont feel the happiness of a believer. So all in all a religious person is no better or worse off than a non-religious. The only reason i dislike relgion is beacuse it creates two types of people, believers and non-believers, which in term will cause conflict between the two, such as religious people trying to push it on others.
I only dislike the givers of religion (priests, bishops etc.), not the followers. Also i as i mentioned in another post some churches have effpost on dontaion machines in the church, which i think is just ridiculous.

 

[Bodisathva]

So how do you categorize those of us who, while we do not follow a structured religion, and are therefore not religious, do believe in something, a higher order, karma, whatever, and are therefore very spiritual with regards to our position in the grand scheme of things. I cannot place myself into the same bucket with the Athiests, but I also cannot be grouped with those who follow, in my wife's terms "a spook in the sky". Think "Native American"

 

[Len Boorman]

How about those that maybe do not follow a structured religion but would like to hedge their bets in that they nevertheless consider themselves to be Christian (or whatever) in the manner in which they live their lives.

L

 

[nikkypickles]

Ah, but how long would it be, if polled for the religion of choice, until Jedi shows up here? While definitely not subscribing to the "I wanna be Luke Skywalker" school of thought, I would probably hedge my bets that Jedi is close enough without pedantry to panthesim - in which I would like to believe.

 

[MrsGorilla]

I've made it no big secret around here that I am a Christian and, while I love the church I'm attending, I can see where there are instances of organized religion becoming corrupt. Such as the problem that the Catholic Church is facing with so many of their priests being child molesters and their covering up the problem rather than confronting it. I can see how someone could get soured on religion when faced with something like that.

 

[Brianwarnock]

What I am about to say is not aimed at anybody on this forum as I don't know them inorder for me to make a personal statement.

From my little spot in the great scheme of things it would appear that religion makes good people better, bad people worse , and the vast majority go along for the ride either because they have no choice, are brainwashed, or are hedging their bets.

To me choosing the right religion is a bit of a post code lottery, and those I know a bit about seem too flawed for me to consider them as any more than man made myths.

Brian

 

[Len Boorman]

it would appear that religion makes good people better, bad people worse , and the vast majority go along for the ride either because they have no choice, are brainwashed, or are hedging their bets.
Brian

Yup that's about it. Spot on really

L

 

[MrsGorilla]

or are hedging their bets.

I can understand what you're saying, but if someone is just hedging their bets then they're not really believers, are they?

 

[MrsGorilla]

are brainwashed,

I can also understand this comment coming from the perspective of some of the Middle Eastern countries where it is illegal (or otherwise unheard of) to practise anything but Islam. At least over here we have the opportunity and the means to study different religions and make our own choices about what we want to believe. There are people who are taught a belief system by their parents but with the exception of extremely rare cases they are still able to make up their own minds by adulthood.

 

[jsanders]

To me choosing the right religion is a bit of a post code lottery, and those I know a bit about seem too flawed for me to consider them as any more than man made myths.

Brian

Most likely because the human mind is incapable of seeing the true nature of the universe. Even as science attempts to measure it; the fabric is still elusive.

Since we can’t comprehend the nature of the universe, we certainly cannot comprehend...its creator.

So over the millennia we have clung to our small view, as the only righteous one, and have been willing on many occasions to kill for it as well.

 

[Rich]

So over the millennia we have clung to our small view, as the only righteous one,.

Not all of us

 

[Keith Nichols]

Greyowls,

You can lead a moral life, doing what you believe to be right, without this being inconsistent with atheism. An atheist is not necessarily a bad person, although some (only some mind you!) fundamental Christian or Muslim types might think otherwise.

As a 'Born Again Atheist' who has toyed with being a 'None Practicing atheist' and a 'Lapsed Atheist' at various times, but only for effect, I can tell you that there is an internal reward for doing what you believe to be right, making apologies or restitution when you have done wrong etc. There may be no orgasmic 'god' experience (incidentally, as far as I have read, very few proclaimed Christians claim to have 'felt' god) but you can have a base that supports you in life.

Leaving aside the extremes of both directions, the modern (western) world seems rather relaxed about what people believe. Certainly, the significance of religion has been dwindling in the UK for centuries with a recent article I read claiming that about 15% of the population consider themselves to be 'active' Christians if I remember the gist of it right. In other words it is a minority, if vocal, 'sport'.

North American Christians seem to be far more active and vocal and appear to take the religion into areas that are considered strictly secular in the UK such as general government, health provision, education, etc.

The following is not meant to offend, it is my observations of how things go on where I live. If there are readers with different perspectives, I Will be pleased to hear them.

I am currently resident in the Middle East and get an upfront view of Muslims in the form of Gulf Arabs as well as Indian/Pakistani ex pats. By and large, the Muslims I encounter take the religion very seriously and very literally. A lot of the observance is based on fear of the 'fiery pit' - I'm not joking, they really believe that sinners will roast in hell. A curious by-product of this literal religiosity is that some locals use Islamic 'get out of jail free cards'. The Islamic religion is a strict code for living your life and how you behave with a virtual ledger for the observances and sins, very much like an accounts book - in the red and you're going to hell, in the black and you are headed to the place of the prophet (MPBUH - as they say in these parts) with your 17 virgins. So far so good. Unfortunately, there are several ways that a Muslim can virtually wipe out all past indiscretions by doing relatively easy religious observances. The result is that there are many truly awful things done, incompatible with any religion, by devout Muslims who then make amends with the 'boss' and don't seem to think that they have done anything very wrong at all. These sorts of behaviours reinforce my atheism.

 

[Greyowlsl]

I see what you you mean Keith.

Time has changed many things and as we all know nothing lasts forever. The continuous increase in science is makeing religion seem more and more unbelievable. Other relgions such as buddhism are knows as "cool" relgions because they have hardly any restrictions and rules other than if you think its ok then its ok. Obviously this highly appeals to societies youth alowing them a belief and full freedom. Everyone has some kind of belief in themselfs and the way the world works, I am a spiritual/science believer so i feed on facts and good intentions, i dont believe there is a good or bad and i like to have and open mind about everything. I kling to the belief that my thoughts and ideas are far greater and advanced than one simple religion.

 

[jsanders]

Not all of us

You've adapted a more righteous one.

 

[Bodisathva]

...such as buddhism are knows as "cool" relgions because they have hardly any restrictions and rules other than if you think its ok then its ok.

Perhaps you should investigate further.

I kling to the belief that my thoughts and ideas are far greater and advanced than [my grammar or spelling]...

(try as I might, I couldn't resist )

That last bit comes off a bit on the arrogant side, don't you think?

 

[nikkypickles]

Other relgions such as buddhism are knows as "cool" relgions because they have hardly any restrictions and rules other than if you think its ok then its ok.

Perhaps you should investigate further

I think they are seen as "cool", or possibly more properly as less zealous or fundamentalist, because history doesn't seem to be as littered with battles in the name of Buddha. Where 'movie Buddhist monks' battle, they do so in a stereotypical reflective manner - putting off violence until there is no other option.

Truth or not, it is how - in modern culture - the media portrays religious people that shapes our perception of the religion itself

 

[Rich]

Truth or not, it is how - in modern culture - the media portrays religious people that shapes our perception of the religion itself

Yes on one side we have those who with god on their side invade countries and attack them with bombs and bullets leading to the deaths of countless thousands of innocent people.
On the other side we have those who attack unarmed people in the name of their god and where the women are so subjugated and brainwashed they have to dress like Darth Vader, great choices eh?

 

[dan-cat]

... and where the women are so subjugated and brainwashed they have to dress like Darth Vader, great choices eh?

You being Jedi find this particularily disturbing do you not? hmmm? Yes? heh heh...

 

[Rich]

You being Jedi find this particularily disturbing do you not? hmmm? Yes? heh heh...

Of course, it represents evil

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I didn't check the survey box because my answer is none of the above, all of the above, or a time-variant combination of some of the above.

Having now muddied up the waters, the truth is that I don't know whether there is a God or a god (little 'g') or a bunch of gods (all little 'g') or a big fat zero. (Agnosticism, here I come...)

What bothers me is that religion is INHERENTLY corrupt when it preys upon the fears of less intelligent people. And we all know that it does. When a religion stops someone from using the greatest gift their ... God ... could ever have given them - or the greatest evolutionary development known to Man - their brains - then religion WEAKENS our society.

When Roman Catholicism criticized Galileo, it was wrong to do so - but he represented a threat to their power in a world of relatively illiterate people. And that alone proves corruption. If you can be threatened by science, you are obvious AWARE that you have something to hide. The fact that you then hide it proves your corrupt nature.

Islam also bothers me, for a different reason and the same reason. Blindness to a modified reality. The world is an engine of change, but when major religions reject that change, they reject exposure that would allow their own people to better themselves. They don't want to risk power loss. Which is why the bitter sectarian violence in various Islamic countries. Which is why so many Islamic clerics call for a jihad - meaning a bloody war, when the prophet himself meant it as an internal struggle with one's self.

Another reason that we know religion is corrupt is when it is used to foment hatred. Such as the terrible hatred aimed at homosexuals. I cannot reveal names because the person in question is not "out" to the world, but one of my friends got burned when he dared reveal his preferences. To me, he's just a guy who won't be competing with me for women, no problem. To others, this quiet, shy, self-effacing guy with a talent for engineering drawing got FIRED because he was gay. And the worst part is that the accusation was the most improbable event you could imagine. But because there were no witnesses, it's a he-said, she-said.... well, ... he-said, he-said situation. And it is all because people who are DIFFERENT are soundly castigated in churches these days. To which I say, learn love. Wasn't that the message of the central figure of Christianity?

All of this makes me sad because I don't have any answers regarding whether there is or isn't a big-G God. But if He is so hateful, so vengeful, so petty as that, then He doesn't deserve the capital letters. Or any other special type of reverence. Because that isn't the action of a God. That kind of hatred is the action of a petty, vain, foolish, vengeful MAN who CLAIMS to have heard a message from God. Only MEN are that low.