Shootings in US schools

[KenHigg]

I'm beginning to wonder if they are not jealouse of us having guns, since they can't any more. After all, even if they say, saw those London bombers before they blew up, what would they do? Nothing I guess, where here since "pretty much according to Rich/Col" every man, woman and child is armed, we could blow them away before they had a chance to explode them.
Yep, green with envy I am begining to think.

I'm actually open to discussing gun's, etc. with someone who isn't rude and haughty…

 

[dan-cat]

Apparently they don't like modern things and do everything to avoid it, they live this weird 18th century existence. They worship some kind of god, so presumably are some kind of crank religious cult.

Why are you using the murder of children to attack a benign culture?

Are you that desperate for attention?

 

[msp]

I'm actually open to discussing gun's, etc. with someone who isn't rude and haughty…

I have said on this board before that whilst I believe that “the right to bear arms” causes immense problems in the US, I do not believe the almost paranoid laws in the UK that make it illegal to even look at a gun, and the attitude that if you want to own a gun means that physiologically you should not own a gun are not the way to go.

The problem I see in the US for gun control, is that it as seen as a right and any sensible control on a device that is designed to kill (i.e. stringent checks on individuals wanting to own a gun, limitation of fire power, forcing people to keep guns in a secure environment etc) are seen as an infringement of that right and are fought on principle rather the arguments themselves.

 

[Kraj]

I thought SJ was going to do pretty good until he lowered the post to Col's level right at the start with the 'frickin' idiots' thing. And that pretty much revealed the hate tone for the remainder of the post and it lost my interest...

Hmmm... well to be fair SJ wasn't explicit as to whether he meant everyone who fervently suports the Second Ammendment is an idiot or rather that there simlpy are a lot of idiots who do. The former is certainly combative, the latter is a simple truth.

Personally, I dislike guns and I think the Second Amendment is a relic. On the other hand, you can't just assume a major political and social policy that works in one country will work in another. I would imagine the logistics alone of keeping guns off an island is much simpler and easier than it is for a country 100 times that island's size that also shares a practically open border with a country that is happy to host just about anything for smuggling. Is there any reason to believe we'd be any more successful in preventing access to guns than we are to drugs?

Furthermore, attempts to control guns within the U.S. have showed no sign of actually doing anything to improve the crime rate. For example, Chicago city ordinances basically bans guns. You cannot legally purchase or register a handgun or assault weapon in Chicago. Period. Yes, that is pretty much a blatant violation of the Second Ammendment. And what is the result? Chicago has the highest homicide rates in the country; gun violence is worse here than any other part of the country.

So, relic or not if we're going to ammend the Constitution and remove civil liberties, I'd say we should be damn sure it's the right thing to do. And we just don't have the evidence to make a convincing argument.

 

[KenHigg]

I have said on this board before that whilst I believe that “the right to bear arms” causes immense problems in the US, I do not believe the almost paranoid laws in the UK that make it illegal to even look at a gun, and the attitude that if you want to own a gun means that physiologically you should not own a gun are not the way to go.

The problem I see in the US for gun control, is that it as seen as a right and any sensible control on a device that is designed to kill (i.e. stringent checks on individuals wanting to own a gun, limitation of fire power, forcing people to keep guns in a secure environment etc) are seen as an infringement of that right and are fought on principle rather the arguments themselves.

I would say that I pretty much agree with you both fronts. But I would like to make two other statements. 1. Trying to do a one gun law for a city vs. the western wilderness is hard. 2. Keeping people from harming one another by passing laws is addressing the symptom. It make have a limited or short term impact, but the root causes still exist.

 

[jsanders]

We've been hearing about yet more killings in US schools last week and this week.

In this weeks American school killings episode, the killings are in an Amish community.ref (I'd never heard of it before)

Apparently they don't like modern things and do everything to avoid it, they live this weird 18th century existence. They worship some kind of god, so presumably are some kind of crank religious cult.

No doubt they become very voiciferous about "outside" interference, they preach about "isolation from the modern world" - so how come they use modern hospitals, use modern fire engines, modern police etc? it seems a case of "we don't want anything to do with you, till we need you" type of scenario. I would have thought they can't have it both ways, its either one thing or the other. I'll bet they don't pay taxes or any national contributions.

Col

Oh my gosh Col,

I haven’t read the rest of the post yet, but I just had to respond.

I am glad to see you have proven me wrong at last.

I thought there was nothing you knew less about than main stream America. Well you have certainly outdone yourself this time.

 

[KenHigg]

Oh my gosh Col,

I haven’t read the rest of the post yet, but I just had to respond.

I am glad to see you have proven me wrong at last.

I thought there was nothing you knew less about then main stream America. Well you have certainly outdone yourself this time.

How dare you! After all he get's his information from a government owned and operated yet unbiased ppv BBC, supermarket tabloids and Green Acre re-runs.

 

[GMLWORLDCHAMP!]

"A" for effort...

That doesn't suprise me.

Actually, I thought this was an good topic to discuss. Shame your typical blanket hate stuff causes most of us on this side of the pond to not have any interest in chatting about it with you...

(A+) for effort Ken but as you've said, pointless to pursue because some people (always the same ones) have their own depictions of everything, throw blankets over every subject even though we try to give them credit for being more intelligent, to no avail, and are truly the most intolerant persons I've ever run across...to each his own but, dark, dreary, and hateful nevertheless!

They take plenty of jabs at my golf thread because they would rather do that than simply ignore something that doesn't affect them...it's all fine with me because all of the members I share that info. with and hopefully help others form their own leagues like ours, all these guys are to us, are CARTOONS! - Humorous figures that, in the end, offerings from that don't matter because they don't speak for the greater masses, thankfully!

Proof: Anyone can identify these guys after reading no more than (5) of their comments! In returning to this forum after a 2-year plus absence, I recognized these guys immediately because they still spew the same crap they did back then!...oh well,...I can be tolerant even if they can't!

I like cartoons...

 

[GMLWORLDCHAMP!]

I'm beginning to wonder if they are not jealouse of us having guns, since they can't any more. After all, even if they say, saw those London bombers before they blew up, what would they do? Nothing I guess, where here since "pretty much according to Rich/Col" every man, woman and child is armed, we could blow them away before they had a chance to explode them.
Yep, green with envy I am begining to think.

Right on the mark!!!

...like I posted before, these guys should write their own history book, naturally called, "HISTORY FOR DUMMIES!"

 

[Rich]

I'm beginning to wonder if they are not jealouse of us having guns, since they can't any more. After all, even if they say, saw those London bombers before they blew up, what would they do? Nothing I guess, where here since "pretty much according to Rich/Col" every man, woman and child is armed, we could blow them away before they had a chance to explode them.
Yep, green with envy I am begining to think.

Oh yeah, here we go armed vigilantes on the streets, no wonder so many get shot to death every day in America

 

[Rich]

Right on the mark!!!

...like I posted before, these guys should write their own history book, naturally called, "HISTORY FOR DUMMIES!"

NO! American history for dummies

 

[GMLWORLDCHAMP!]

Back to the thread...

Having worked in the Denver School system for over ten years, I saw a fair share of security issues that the District has done an outstanding job in addressing but in these cases, there is nothing you can do to prevent these terrible things.

PEOPLE, notice to some (not Americans, not French, not English, not white, not green, or whatever...), again, PEOPLE who seek to do these kinds of things are simply going to do whatever they think is necessary to carry them out and we all find out why, later.

So as far as I'm concerned, especially in these kind of places, searches, proper ID and whatever harrassment that may follow as long as it is done with respect for the safety of kids is all permissible because that's one of the only ways we can try to prevent this from happening again.

And these events have little or nothing to do with the particular school's area, religious affiliations, or whatever, it's people, plain and simple. It's an opportunity, for whatever reason, for that person or people to show their aggression, guilt in some other part of their life, criminal nature, etc..

There is the moral majority over here trying to do well, support people, work hard, etc just like there is the moral majority any place else trying to do the same and the struggle is when psycho's like this idiot in PA walk into one of our schools and decide to take lives.

So, we, collectively, are always on the alert to increase the safety of our kids while still trying to balance learning and the kind of atmosphere kids can learn in and not turn their school into some kind of locked down watch tower or a prison.

If this guy hadn't taken his own life, he would naturally have been a candidate, a perfect one, for the Death Penalty and why not? - What the hell good would this guy do or offer, even after being "sorry" for ten years or so while on parole...no point...I'm glad he's already dead!

If I lost my daughter that day, I'd grab this sick bastard and shoot him again myself!!!

Amish, not the point...everyone has a right to live how they choose. It's the individual psycho's that we all must deal with.

No blanket throwing allowed here!

 

[GMLWORLDCHAMP!]

NO! American history for dummies

Actually, we do have a version of this text, authored by the U.S. founders, mainly England, Ireland, Italy, France, and Germany,...!#>$>>!$#

 

[Rich]

I would imagine the logistics alone of keeping guns off an island is much simpler and easier than it is for a country 100 times that island's size that also shares a practically open border with a country that is happy to host just about anything for smuggling. .

Canada seems to manage quite well

Furthermore, attempts to control guns within the U.S. have showed no sign of actually doing anything to improve the crime rate. For example, Chicago city ordinances basically bans guns. You cannot legally purchase or register a handgun or assault weapon in Chicago. Period. Yes, that is pretty much a blatant violation of the Second Ammendment. And what is the result? Chicago has the highest homicide rates in the country; gun violence is worse here than any other part of the country.

That's because you won't act as a united country on this, New York faces the same problem, despite trying to control gun ownership the are simply brought in from the next state

So, relic or not if we're going to ammend the Constitution and remove civil liberties,

What about the poor kids that have just lost their lives to the gun and all the others over the years, Don't they have any civil liberties or a right to protection in your constitution?

And Americans should be aware by now, we've posted the facts often enough, guns are not banned here per se, just hand guns, we just have strict control over other guns

 

[Rich]

Actually, we do have a version of this text, authored by the U.S. founders,

You mean Americans

 

[Matty]

Canada seems to manage quite well

Hate to break it to ya Rich, but we have guns in Canada.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/dawson-college/

 

[GMLWORLDCHAMP!]

Hate to break it to ya Rich, but we have guns in Canada.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/dawson-college/

Trust me Matty when I say, Rich has his own book of historical facts that he references so arguing with him won't do any good...trust me!

 

[Rich]

Hate to break it to ya Rich, but we have guns in Canada.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/dawson-college/

I'm aware of that incident, however it's a rare event in Canada, not a regular one as in the States and I'm sure it's not written into Canadian law that any idiot can own guns

 

[Matty]

Trust me, there are plenty of idiot Canadians that own guns.

 

[Rich]

Trust me, there are plenty of idiot Canadians that own guns.

Maybe but they don't go on a regular killing spree in your schools though, do they?