So.....that happened (2 Viewers)

Alc

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Real shock, depending on which polls you believed, but what are the general thoughts this morning?

Dip in the market, sure. But so what? Happens every time there's an admin change.

The main topics of conversation where I'm working (Southern Ontario) appear to be:
1. Glad that's over
2. I didn't see that coming
3. How will this affect our business, if at all (we make cars for, primarily, the US market)?
4. How many of his campaign items will become policies? Yes, now he has the Senate and Congress too, there are fewer barriers than Obama faced, but how much of what was said were just empty promises (the wall springs to mind) and there are no intentions of even trying to enforce them?

How do our US posters feel?
 

Minty

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Non US Opinion ;)
There is general disbelief in the UK from what I can tell. All the "independent" media was convinced Trump wouldn't win and in fact everyone I know is also gob-smacked.

But I think the UK in general misjudge the general public mood/opinion in the US frequently. As can been seen with things like gun control, the majority of the UK public just don't "get" the US public's obsession with its right to bear arms.
 

Frothingslosh

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The biggest problem I see is his adamant, across-the board opposition to Civil Rights. This is a man who has faced court sanctions repeatedly for violations of the Civil Rights Act, only to buy his way out of them every time with empty promises. A man whose campaign was founded on the promise of discrimination against Mexians and Muslims, to the point that he was actually endorsed by American Nazis and the KKK. Hate crimes in the US have spiked along with his rise to prominence, and right now, anti-Muslim hate crimes are at their highest since 9/11.

My most immediate fear is that people will follow his example even more - already this morning, at a company employing thousands of people, I've heard a co-worker telling another co-worker about how the 'Dumb-o-crats won't be able to protect those criminals [any] more', and this was from an educated person in a business environment; the reaction from the actual Trump base - uneducated white people and older white people - is likely to be rather more intense.

We can also kiss the Affordable Care Act goodbye, along with its banning of yearly and lifetime payment caps, exclusions for pre-existing conditions, and outlawing of charging women higher rates because they're women. Based on GOP history to-date, I don't see them going any further than the repeal, either. They want it gone; they're not interested in restoring what few protections existed in what it replaced.

On top of that, there are all sorts of things a President can do to limit the First Amendment right to a free press (Bush II basically wrote the manual on that), he plans on breaking up immigrant families whose children are American citizens (and he has stated his opposition to the 14th Amendment's enactment of birthright citizenship), and his intention to ban Muslims from the US is a direct violation of the religion clause of the 1st Amendment.

It could also get interesting in that he currently has a fraud case going to trial this month, plus he is facing a potential 73 counts of fraud over Trump University, not to mention just dodging a trial for the ra** of a minor because of threats and abuse the woman has since received. Having a President-elect on trial for fraud when sworn in (and thus having the legal protections that go with the office kick in) could end up causing a constitutional crisis.

He will also be appointing at least one, and possibly up to four Supreme Court judges during his term, and has promised to stack it with judges willing to overturn Roe v Wade, which will return America to the days of coat-hanger abortions.

He has also repeatedly stated his objections to clean and renewable energy (in the case of windmills, because they might kill birds and because they cast shadows) and called for an increase in oil, natural gas, and coal mining. He also has stated for the record that climate change is a pro-Chinese conspiracy and that the intends to withdraw from the Paris Accords immediately.

Finally, not only has the man displayed an appalling lack of knowledge about how the US government works, but so far he has displayed the temperament of a particularly unruly toddler in both his personal and professional dealings. The man's solution to ISIS is to 'bomb them back to the stone age', and has shown every sign (to the point of asking about them in intelligence briefings) of being willing to use nukes as a first resort. I fear his reaction the first time someone stands up to him, or worse, badmouths him. The man is absolutely going to get us into another war.

Basically, I fully expect an America that is even more dedicated to the enrichment of the very, very few at the expense of the other 99.9% of the population, I rather expect to see civil rights in America set back 50 years, and I fear that we have a petulant child who not only controls America's nuclear weapons, but is eager to use them. And I fear that if nothing else, his approach to the climate will push it to the point that a runaway greenhouse effect becomes inevitable.

And I weep for idiocy of the people who believe him every time he lies about something that is easily proven, such as just last weekend when he claimed Obama was screaming and ranting at a protester. It's going to be a given that you should, under no circumstances, believe anything that man says.
 

Alc

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In the interests of full disclosure, I hate the man. I'm no fan of Clinton, either, but I really can't stand Trump. However, I'm going to try to keep things civil here as I'm genuinely interested in people's opinions. AS with Bexit, I totally misjudged the way things were going and I'd like to get an idea of why.

Frothingslosh:Good points. In terms of practicalities and actionable items, which of his promises do you think he'll follow through on and which will be ignored?

For example, I always assumed he'd made the wall promises safe in the knowledge that someone in the opposing party would block them. Now there's no one to block that scheme but it's so clearly impractical and useless, how will he manage to duck doing anything about it?

Are there any of his ideas you think he will be successful in enacting? I heard one of the Republicans (didn't catch his name) this morning say how they'd have Obamacare repealed and replaced with a much better system within their first 100 days. Will this happen?
 

Alc

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Non US Opinion ;)
There is general disbelief in the UK from what I can tell. All the "independent" media was convinced Trump wouldn't win and in fact everyone I know is also gob-smacked.

But I think the UK in general misjudge the general public mood/opinion in the US frequently. As can been seen with things like gun control, the majority of the UK public just don't "get" the US public's obsession with its right to bear arms.

I know exactly what you mean. I've spent a lot of time trying to understand the mindset behind some decisions and just can't do it. I imagine the same is true of an American looking at any country in Europe.
 

Minty

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There is a 100 day period before he gets sworn in. I can't believe, based on recent past performance, he won't have upset almost every group of people again within that time.

Maybe you'll get some high court ruling that means people have to think again...
 

Frothingslosh

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Obamacare will be gone before the end of January. They voted to repeal it 50+ times under Obama; they're sure as hell not going to stop once Trump is sworn in. They have *NEVER* however, so much as started to suggest any replacement; all they want to do is vacate the law entirely and let the insurance companies do as they will. Instead, we'll revert to the points I listed in my post, and I'm pretty damned certain that insurance rates will NOT go down.

The wall isn't going to happen, but he'll convince the Trumpstaffel that that's Mexico's fault; keeping them fired up about those evil, uncooperative Mexicans is going to be a priority for him.

Paris Accords? The US will have withdrawn from those by June, just like how Bush immediately withdraw us from the Kyoto Protocols immediately after HE took office.

I expect Roe v Wade will be overturned after Trump makes his second SCOTUS appointment. (Scalia was already for overturning, so his replacement will be a wash.)

We're going to see a lot of ultra-right-wing legislation freeing corporations to do whatever they want, whenever they want proposed by the GOP; any that makes it past the Democrats (and most of it will) will pretty much be guaranteed to be signed.

I doubt he'll even try to officially overturn the 1st, 5th, or 14th Amendments, but he can weaken them by limiting enforcement. Until he has a second SCOTUS appointee in place, I don't see him successfully implementing his 'No Muslims' policy. He will certainly try, and the ACLU will take that to court pretty much instantly, and the current court would never allow it (Kennedy leans right but isn't a full-on conservative). Remember he's on record as saying that newspapers like the New York Times have too many rights, and he has pushed for our libel laws to be more like the pre-reform British libel laws, meaning that libel would no longer require falsehood, just negativity.

If he doesn't try to shut down the EPA entirely, he will at the very least ensure its hands are tied so that it can't actually do anything. He won't have a problem increasing fossil fuels at the expense of clean energy - most of the inducements away from the former toward the latter have been via EPA regulations and executive orders, and he'll be able to undo them with a wave of his pen.

And like I said, considering his immaturity and petulance every time someone does something he doesn't like, I fear both his reaction the first time another world leader says something mean about him, and how he intends to resolve the fight with ISIS.
 

Alc

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Obamacare will be gone before the end of January. They voted to repeal it 50+ times under Obama; they're sure as hell not going to stop once Trump is sworn in. They have *NEVER* however, so much as started to suggest any replacement; all they want to do is vacate the law entirely and let the insurance companies do as they will. Instead, we'll revert to the points I listed in my post, and I'm pretty damned certain that insurance rates will NOT go down.
Wish I could remember the guy's name, from this morning's interview. He claimed to be the first Republican (senator?) to come out in support of Trump, back in February I believe, and said that their new system was partially planned already and would allow people to tailor their healthcare to suit their needs and would make provision for people with pre-existing health problems. It sounded great, but like you said, I imagine it'll favor the insurance companies.

The wall isn't going to happen, but he'll convince the Trumpstaffel that that's Mexico's fault; keeping them fired up about those evil, uncooperative Mexicans is going to be a priority for him.
I totally forgot he could blame Mexico. Not saying he will, but since the Democrats have been neutered, effectively, he's going to need a scapegoat for why this wall won't happen.

Paris Accords? The US will have withdrawn from those by June, just like how Bush immediately withdraw us from the Kyoto Protocols immediately after HE took office.
Yeah, I see that coming. Especially since he's publically said that climate change is made up by the Chinese.

I expect Roe v Wade will be overturned after Trump makes his second SCOTUS appointment. (Scalia was already for overturning, so his replacement will be a wash.)
This is the frightening one, if it happens. I can't imagine the stress some women are going to be under.

We're going to see a lot of ultra-right-wing legislation freeing corporations to do whatever they want, whenever they want proposed by the GOP; any that makes it past the Democrats (and most of it will) will pretty much be guaranteed to be signed.
Never understood why so many people were saying that Clinton was just helping big business but Trump would somehow be a Robin Hood character and fight for the little man. As Burt Reynolds said, this is a guy who was born on third base and thinks he hit a triple. Nothing he does is going to harm his own business (for obvious reasons) even if it would benefit the country as a whole.

I doubt he'll even try to officially overturn the 1st, 5th, or 14th Amendments, but he can weaken them by limiting enforcement. Until he has a second SCOTUS appointee in place, I don't see him successfully implementing his 'No Muslims' policy. He will certainly try, and the ACLU will take that to court pretty much instantly, and the current court would never allow it (Kennedy leans right but isn't a full-on conservative). Remember he's on record as saying that newspapers like the New York Times have too many rights, and he has pushed for our libel laws to be more like the pre-reform British libel laws, meaning that libel would no longer require falsehood, just negativity.
I had to Google exactly what each of those amendments mean, but I think to get away with a some of what he's promised, he'd have to at least weaken them. I don't know enough about the process for this.

If he doesn't try to shut down the EPA entirely, he will at the very least ensure its hands are tied so that it can't actually do anything. He won't have a problem increasing fossil fuels at the expense of clean energy - most of the inducements away from the former toward the latter have been via EPA regulations and executive orders, and he'll be able to undo them with a wave of his pen.
Like I mentioned, he doesn't even think climate change is happening, why would he need to protect the environment? Plus, there's no money in doing it.

And like I said, considering his immaturity and petulance every time someone does something he doesn't like, I fear both his reaction the first time another world leader says something mean about him, and how he intends to resolve the fight with ISIS.
This one is risky. However, Putin appears to know how to play to his ego, so I don't think Russia will be much of a problem. If it turns out his much touted secret plan to get rid of ISIS actually works, I'll be the first to applaud him. However, I tend to think it'll be more along the lines of hiring Bill Gates to stop their internet working.
 

Frothingslosh

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Oh, he's also promised to scrap the Iran deal, although how he intends to unilaterally undo a six-nation agreement is beyond me.

Also, don't forget that in an intelligence briefing this spring, he asked repeatedly what was stopping the US from using nukes, and what the point was in having them if we don't use them. I'm pretty sure nukes were his super-secret plan to 'solve' ISIS by, and I quote, 'bombing them back to the stone age'. Also, I can just see the whiny rants that will happen the first time the president of the Philippines calls Trump an asshole the way he keeps doing to Obama.
 

Frothingslosh

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Also, I'm pretty sure Murderboy is dancing in the streets thanks to this election result. I'm kind of surprised he hasn't come back to gloat.
 

Alc

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Also, I'm pretty sure Murderboy is dancing in the streets thanks to this election result. I'm kind of surprised he hasn't come back to gloat.
Listening to his brief acceptance announcement, earlier on, I couldn't decide if he was enjoying praising Clinton for her 'hard fought' campaign or desperately trying not to insult her, just out of force of habit.

I genuinely think that a large part of him never wanted to be president. He wanted to win, in the same way he wants to win in everything he does, but it must have dawned on him a while back that this job will be much different from what he's used to. Being diplomatic clearly doesn't come naturally and that's a huge part of the role. Also, just giving orders and being obeyed, with no one to question him, is going to be a hard habit to break.
 

Frothingslosh

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I wasn't referring to Herr Drumpf. I was referring to my old foe over in the Watercooler. :D
 

Uncle Gizmo

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Colin silent?

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Frothingslosh

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The only reason I came here...I wanted to see Col's input but alas, radio silence...

You know, it wasn't Colin I was referring to, either. I was referring to the guy who flat-out stated that murdering babies is a good thing if they're the children of non-Christians or sinners.

But yes, now that you mention it, I'm rather surprised Colin hasn't shown up to rant and rave as well.

Colin silent?

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Colin missing a chance to bash what he considers the worst evil ever to beset the world? Something must be seriously wrong.
 

NauticalGent

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Wow...that is quite an inflammatory, idiotic thing to say. Hopefully that individual was simply trying to wind you up and was not in any way serious.

Disturbing to think that there are some out there who really feel that way...
 

Frothingslosh

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Wow...that is quite an inflammatory, idiotic thing to say. Hopefully that individual was simply trying to wind you up and was not in any way serious.

Disturbing to think that there are some out there who really feel that way...

If he was trying to wind me up, then he spent thousands of posts in the Watercooler setting that up, mostly in the 'Are you an atheist' and gun control threads. All evidence indicates he was dead serious.

He also was convinced that I had not only knowingly and deliberately sold my soul to Satan, but did so in order to join a secret conspiracy headed by George Soros with the intention of destroying the US, taking everyone's guns away, murdering all Christians, and handing the smoldering wreckage of what used to be the US over to ISIS. (He used the Muslim Brotherhood originally, but switched to ISIS as his boogieman when the latter became more prominent than the former.)

I've actually saved the long-winded post of his where he did his level best to explain how the Parable of the Goats doesn't actually mean what it says it means. The logic was hilariously amazingly bad.
 

Uncle Gizmo

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If he was trying to wind me up, then he spent thousands of posts in the Watercooler setting that up, mostly in the 'Are you an atheist' and gun control threads. All evidence indicates he was dead serious......

I was in one of the first forums that used your real name, it was called Ecademy. Penny Power, one of the founders was recently awarded an OBE http://www.pennypower.co.uk/ Anyway I digress as usual!

I had a run in with a chap who thought that selling bottled water was practically a criminal offence. I wasn't convinced he was really that bothered about the problem because he had a product to sell. Basically a "sippy Cup" that you give to your children. They take it around everywhere with them and get it refilled. The idea being to stop people buying bottled water...

It occurred to me that Coca-Cola is basically bottled water which contains quite a few teaspoonful of sugar, a bit of colouring and flavour. Bottled water with added sugar!!! In other words it was worse than bottled water.

I pointed this out to him and I showed him to some websites which at the time showed that Coca-Cola was sold in much larger quantities than any bottled water.

I also said that my kids preferred drinking bottled water, that I encourage them to drink bottled water for the simple reason there's no sugar in it.

He went completely off the deep end, threatened me and my family! And I believe he meant it. I didn't say another word to him... Just be careful, there are some very strange people out there...
 
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Frothingslosh

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Oh, agreed. I had someone who lived in Florida and who was in a mailing group with me (we used real names in it) who came all the way to Michigan and to my freaking place of employment to take a baseball bat to me because I called him an idiot while we were playing EverQuest. (Luckily, it was my day off.)

So yeah, I know all about that. :D It's actually one reason I keep multiple, compartmentalized online identities. This is actually the only place where I go by Frothingslosh, and I'm pretty paranoid these days about anything being able to be linked back to my actual identity.
 
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