The Deep State

[Steve R.]

The diference is Biden cooperated, and Trump did not.

That is a false assertion. Biden, knowingly, illegally held these documents for years. Biden illegally snuck the documents out of a secure facility. That is not cooperation. He secretly held them. That is not cooperation.

Additionally Biden even blamed his staff. That was a very despicable act by someone claiming to be an ethical leader.

In the case of Trump, he held the documents under the belief he had that authority. It was also known by the Justice Department that he held the documents. Trump even complied with suggestions on how to better store and secure the documents. Trump was cooperating.

 

[jpl458]

Actually, he wasn't prosecuted because he's not mentally fit.

I asked before, were you ever in the military? Just curious.

 

[jpl458]

That is a false assertion. Biden, knowingly, illegally held these documents for years. Biden illegally snuck the documents out of a secure facility. That is not cooperation. He secretly held them. That is not cooperation.

Additionally Biden even blamed his staff. That was a very despicable act by someone claiming to be an ethical leader.

In the case of Trump, he held the documents under the belief he had that authority. It was also known by the Justice Department that he held the documents. Trump even complied with suggestions on how to better store and secure the documents. Trump was cooperating.

Like move them to the secret bathroom.

 

[Pat Hartman]

From the last paragraph: If you are not a Trump Loyalist, and you are in government, then you are part of the deep state.

Please explain in small words how you get that statement from this:

A deep state[1] is a type of governance made up of potentially secret and unauthorized networks of power operating independently of a state's political leadership in pursuit of their own agenda and goals. In popular usage, the term carries overwhelmingly negative connotations.[2]

What is it about "pursuit of their own agenda" do you not understand? What does that have to do with loyalty? If you take a job, aren't you supposed to do it? That is what you are getting paid for. You don't get to just set your own agenda. You do what the boss tells you do do or you find another job if you disagree with the boss' objectives.

EPA and their rules on what constitutes a wetland.

A good friend ran afoul of the EPA when she decided to install a pool in her backyard. The builder who built her neighborhood did pretty shoddy work and took various, probably illegal shortcuts. Her house was in a "circle" and was at the bottom edge (slope wize). The arc to the left of her back yard was about 15 feet higher than her yard. Rather than completing the storm drain and connecting it to the city drains at the bottom of the "circle" (city street was the front of my friend's house), he cut it off two houses up the hill from the end of the street and allowed it to drain into a dry well he created in the back corner of my friend's property. The dry well was filled with big rocks and most of the time was adequate to capture the rainfall runoff. But when it wasn't, a small temporary stream would form that ran across the back of her property and then down the far side where it just ran off into the city street.

She probably should have reported the nuisance to the city when she and her husband bought their house but she didn't. Twenty years later, her son is 10 and she wants to keep him at home so decides to put in the pool. The town surveyor saw the water "feature" and decided the EPA needed to be called in. The EPA informed my friend that the area was wetlands and so she couldn't build a pool. She tried to get them to understand that this wasn't any natural water, it was rainwater runoff and if anything, it was a pollutant. It took her two years and a lawyer (about $2,000) to get them to see her point of view.

No, the term was used in this country by the Trump folk to describe those in government that didn't agree with Trump.

I'm sure that at some point in your life you've been employed and had a boss. It is quite likely that also at some point your boss has given you a task that you didn't agree with. Once you convinced yourself the task was not illegal and not immoral, did you suck it up and do it? Did you argue with him and try to get him to change his mind or did you simply do whatever YOU thought should be done because the boss was just plain stupid?

This is the Deep State. People working for Trump (the President is after all the CEO of the Executive Branch so ALL federal employees of the Executive Branch report to him) deciding to ignore Trump's specific directives and doing what they think was right. You don't get to ignore direct orders. Most managers will allow a discussion of why you want to do something different but if they don't see your point and tell you to implement their plan you have two choices. Resign or suck it up buttercup and do the best job you can. Would YOU personally deceive your manager and implement your original plan or just do nothing? How do you suppose your manager would react once he discovered your deception? Would you be surprised to be fired? Would you deserve it? Would you fire an insubordinate employee?

Have you ever been in the military? What would happen to a soldier who disobeyed a direct order? What should have happened to Milley for deceiving Trump with the military complement in Iraq. He bragged in a TV interview that he kept moving them around rather than removing them so he could keep Trump in the dark about the fact that he (Milley) was disobeying a direct order from the Commander-in-Chief? Unlike Enlisted men, Officers have the option of resigning their commissions if they disagree with the orders of a superior. That is what Milley should have done. He should have resigned. Instead he violated a direct order from his superior.

If Trump replaces 50,000 civil service people, isn't that a deep state as well? Just curious.

You keep thinking that the replacement would be prompted by some kind of thought crime. Last I knew, we don't fire people for thinking differently from their boss. We do however fire them for disobeying orders.

 

[AccessBlaster]

I asked before, were you ever in the military? Just curious.

Why?

 

[Pat Hartman]

The diference is Biden cooperated, and Trump did not

Really? Is that how the criminal justice system works? You cooperate and return the stolen property and you don't get prosecuted? No harm, no foul. How can you contort yourself into such a pretzel that you can actually convince yourself that cooperating eliminates the crime? Do you actually believe everything the "talking heads" make up as "gospel truth" and relay to you every night with breathless insistence.

Biden was never allowed to remove the documents. Removing the documents was an actual crime. But, he gave them back so that erases the crime.

Trump had absolute authority to remove the documents so removing them was not a crime. But, he was having a disagreement on which needed to be returned so he was charged with a made up crime?

 

[AccessBlaster]

Release the audio tapes of the Biden / Hur interview...

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Talking about classified documents "in the wild":

Part of the issue with the DJT/HRC election in 2016 was the private mail server on which were found not less than 22 documents whose markings were Top Secret/Compartmentalized. A TS/C document existing on ANY unsecured or lightly secured server is already a crime just by its presence. The laws regarding that situation would require that the server be completely scrubbed with a strict security erasure of the disks, a total re-image of the operating system, and then a full-blown follow-up audit to verify compliance. The person responsible would face one count per document with a potential penalty of 5 years in prison and a monetary fine that I don't recall at the moment - but it had three zeros to the immediate left of the decimal point. Hillary so totally incensed me because of the mail server alone that I knew I could NEVER vote for her. Her other failures including Benghazi weren't in her favor either. I don't know that I would give Trump a total pass on the documents he had, but I surely wouldn't give Papa Joe a pass either.

I was never military but I was a civilian contractor to the U.S. Navy so I had to take all of the security briefings including document handling. Once per year I had to take the refresher.

 

[jpl458]

Please explain in small words how you get that statement from this:

What is it about "pursuit of their own agenda" do you not understand? What does that have to do with loyalty? If you take a job, aren't you supposed to do it? That is what you are getting paid for. You don't get to just set your own agenda. You do what the boss tells you do do or you find another job if you disagree with the boss' objectives.


A good friend ran afoul of the EPA when she decided to install a pool in her backyard. The builder who built her neighborhood did pretty shoddy work and took various, probably illegal shortcuts. Her house was in a "circle" and was at the bottom edge (slope wize). The arc to the left of her back yard was about 15 feet higher than her yard. Rather than completing the storm drain and connecting it to the city drains at the bottom of the "circle" (city street was the front of my friend's house), he cut it off two houses up the hill from the end of the street and allowed it to drain into a dry well he created in the back corner of my friend's property. The dry well was filled with big rocks and most of the time was adequate to capture the rainfall runoff. But when it wasn't, a small temporary stream would form that ran across the back of her property and then down the far side where it just ran off into the city street.

She probably should have reported the nuisance to the city when she and her husband bought their house but she didn't. Twenty years later, her son is 10 and she wants to keep him at home so decides to put in the pool. The town surveyor saw the water "feature" and decided the EPA needed to be called in. The EPA informed my friend that the area was wetlands and so she couldn't build a pool. She tried to get them to understand that this wasn't any natural water, it was rainwater runoff and if anything, it was a pollutant. It took her two years and a lawyer (about $2,000) to get them to see her point of view.

I'm sure that at some point in your life you've been employed and had a boss. It is quite likely that also at some point your boss has given you a task that you didn't agree with. Once you convinced yourself the task was not illegal and not immoral, did you suck it up and do it? Did you argue with him and try to get him to change his mind or did you simply do whatever YOU thought should be done because the boss was just plain stupid?

This is the Deep State. People working for Trump (the President is after all the CEO of the Executive Branch so ALL federal employees of the Executive Branch report to him) deciding to ignore Trump's specific directives and doing what they think was right. You don't get to ignore direct orders. Most managers will allow a discussion of why you want to do something different but if they don't see your point and tell you to implement their plan you have two choices. Resign or suck it up buttercup and do the best job you can. Would YOU personally deceive your manager and implement your original plan or just do nothing? How do you suppose your manager would react once he discovered your deception? Would you be surprised to be fired? Would you deserve it? Would you fire an insubordinate employee?

Have you ever been in the military? What would happen to a soldier who disobeyed a direct order? What should have happened to Milley for deceiving Trump with the military complement in Iraq. He bragged in a TV interview that he kept moving them around rather than removing them so he could keep Trump in the dark about the fact that he (Milley) was disobeying a direct order from the Commander-in-Chief? Unlike Enlisted men, Officers have the option of resigning their commissions if they disagree with the orders of a superior. That is what Milley should have done. He should have resigned. Instead he violated a direct order from his superior.


You keep thinking that the replacement would be prompted by some kind of thought crime. Last I knew, we don't fire people for thinking differently from their boss. We do however fire them for disobeying orders.

Go read up on Project 2025, it's in there.

 

[jpl458]

Biden not only stored classified documents in 6 separate locations, he shared classified documents with his ghost writer. I would think you might be alarmed at these revelations. Oh yea, I forgot he cooperated...

The documents Biden saved were personal notes taken while in the white house, Ronald Reagean was allowed to keep his personal notes with little fuss after he left the White House. The documents Trump kept were a lote more than personal notes. Reagan and Biden cooperated, Trump lied saying he gave all of them back when he still had some in his possession. BTW, employee #5 just came forward with info on how Trump told the Austrailian Billionaire classified stuff about Russian and American Subnarines. He is a direct witness.

 

[jpl458]

Go read up on Project 2025, it's in there.

I was in the military for 4 fun packed glorious years.

 

[AccessBlaster]

The documents Biden saved were personal notes taken while in the white house,

Nah, "Hur's report cited evidence that Biden willfully held on to highly classified information and shared it with a ghostwriter, based on audio of the conversations between the two men in which Biden said he had just come across some classified documents at his home".

"US prosecutor says classified document report does not exonerate Biden"

I could go on but, why?


Release the audio tape!

 

[Isaac]

Re you ex military?

I'm not sure what that means

 

[Pat Hartman]

The documents Biden saved were personal notes taken while in the white house,

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Even the ones marked secret regarding our foreign policy on Ukraine????? You know, the ones that Hunter was using to prove his worth to the Ukraine?

Trump lied saying he gave all of them back when he still had some in his possession.

You just make this stuff up. What about the visits from the National Archives people who went through what Trump had at Mar a Lago and so they knew EXACTLY what he had. They took back what they wanted. Told Trump to get the rest back to them also but the timing was fluid and friendly. PS - those photos of the "secret" documents all over the floor in Trump's office were staged.

 

[Pat Hartman]

I was in the military for 4 fun packed glorious years.

And you really think that if you took home secret documents - but gave them back - you wouldn't be posting from Leavenworth?

 

[Solo712]

January 6 was the day the deep state staged a riot to cover up a stolen election

My .02$ (Canadian): 1) The 2020 election was not "stolen". It's just that the electoral process has been so manipulated by the Big Tech and MSM favoring one side that it that it has little resemblance to anything that may be rightfully called "democracy". 2) "The Deep State" did not create the Jan.6 super event. It simply latched itself on a stupid Trump idea, magnified it and upsized it, to build an illusion that the mostly docile followers of his were in fact violent insurrectionists. Give me another example of an "insurrection" anywhere in the last 300 hundred years where the insurrectionists came without firearms, and where the only shooting death in the event that was that of an insurrectionist by a gov security officer who was then required to clear his action as appropriate. Some insurrection, that !

 

[Pat Hartman]

@Solo712 Have you ever wondered why 6 counting centers in the battleground states stopped counting before 10 PM on election day? Trump was well ahead. Then even though they hadn't been counting all night, The gap had closed and Trump was losing by the next morning. Can you ever remember another Presidential election in your lifetime where the count stopped well before the 11 O'Clock news?

 

[Steve R.]

The 2020 election was not "stolen".

@Solo712 Have you ever wondered why 6 counting centers in the battleground states stopped counting before 10 PM on election day? Trump was well ahead. Then even though they hadn't been counting all night, The gap had closed and Trump was losing by the next morning. Can you ever remember another Presidential election in your lifetime where the count stopped well before the 11 O'Clock news?

@Solo712: Some additional thoughts to consider:

• Why are Democrats opposed to voter verification?
• Why do Democrats use unsecured "deposit" locations for ballots?
• Why do Democrats keep proposing automatic voter registration that potentially enables non-citizens to vote?
• Early voting means that many votes can be cast before the Presidential Debates are even held and before late breaking news, such as the Hunter Biden laptop scandal that could have swayed the election towards Trump?
• Much of the media acts as the propaganda arm of the Democratic Party. Consequently they have the ability to manipulate the gullible public. The Democrats know how to gaslight public.
• The ability of the Republicans (Trump) to implement policy was consistently obstructed by the Democrats. Calls for Trump's impeachment began on the day he was inaugurated!!! You can see this demonization of Trump by the Democrats today through endless lawfare.

 

[jpl458]

My .02$ (Canadian): 1) The 2020 election was not "stolen". It's just that the electoral process has been so manipulated by the Big Tech and MSM favoring one side that it that it has little resemblance to anything that may be rightfully called "democracy". 2) "The Deep State" did not create the Jan.6 super event. It simply latched itself on a stupid Trump idea, magnified it and upsized it, to build an illusion that the mostly docile followers of his were in fact violent insurrectionists. Give me another example of an "insurrection" anywhere in the last 300 hundred years where the insurrectionists came without firearms, and where the only shooting death in the event that was that of an insurrectionist by a gov security officer who was then required to clear his action as appropriate. Some insurrection, that !

There were guns involved with the January 6th touristas;

As the first House hearing dedicated to the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol aired, Fox News host Tucker Carlson repeated the debunked claim that no one in the crowd was found with a gun.

"Just to be clear on terms, an insurrection is when people with guns try to overthrow the government," Carlson said during his June 10 segment. "Not a single person in the crowd on January 6 was found to be carrying a firearm. Not one," he said.

That’s wrong. Court documents, video evidence and news coverage directly contradict this characterization. Several rioters had firearms and dozens more wielded knives, bats and other real and makeshift weapons.

But a review of the federal charges against the alleged rioters shows that they did come armed, and with a variety of weapons: stun guns, pepper spray, baseball bats and flagpoles wielded as clubs. An additional suspect also allegedly planted pipe bombs by the headquarters of the Democratic and Republican parties the night before the riot and remains at large.

In more than one instance the eventual President lost the popular vote but won the electoral college vote. That situation was set up when America was more agrarian that it is now. The the majotiry of the population were farmers, now the opposite is the case. But, Tump just issued.
another call to arms, " If I loose the election, there will be a bloodbath". He getting very close to inciting a riot/insurrection.

I'm from Detroit originally and still watch the Wings games. I am guessing that you a Leafs fan. As I remember Wednesday and Saturday night there was Hockey Night in Canada, and we could get CBC living so close to Canada.

 

[jpl458]

@Solo712: Some additional thoughts to consider:

• Why are Democrats opposed to voter verification?
• Why do Democrats use unsecured "deposit" locations for ballots?
• Why do Democrats keep proposing automatic voter registration that potentially enables non-citizens to vote?
• Early voting means that many votes can be cast before the Presidential Debates are even held and before late breaking news, such as the Hunter Biden laptop scandal that could have swayed the election towards Trump?
• Much of the media acts as the propaganda arm of the Democratic Party. Consequently they have the ability to manipulate the gullible public. The Democrats know how to gaslight public.
• The ability of the Republicans (Trump) to implement policy was consistently obstructed by the Democrats. Calls for Trump's impeachment began on the day he was inaugurated!!! You can see this demonization of Trump by the Democrats today through endless lawfare.

Trump dosen't gaslight? Trump hasen't told a lie? (It is a fact that Trump lost the last election, but he keeps the lie alive.)
Your first three bullet points are somtimes used to keep people from voting.
I know for a fact that Hunter's Laptop is in are 51 next to the dead aliens. (notice that I declared it a fact without any plausable evidence.) Like "If I don't win there will be a bloodbath." A lot of gas in that claim.

Bullet point 5. The problem with all TV and radio news media is that they were turned into profit centers for the networks. It was first done by local stations, but then the national news caught on. I remember when the networks had to give equal time to all ppoints of view. Thus was born the news silos.