Top 10 Ways To Not Get An Answer

[RichardP1978]

In my not so humble opinion, if you don't wake up at three in the morning a few times and say "OMG, that's it" then go to the computer and finish the code, you just aren't serious about programming, and probably shouldn't be here to begin with.

LOL, that has happened so many times! And then I end up kicking myself as it was two words that needed swapping round, or I had inadvertently typed a comma instead of a full stop, the end result is I cant get back to sleep as I cant stop thinking how easy the solution was!

 

[Ron_dK]

Having read this post, I agree with most posters, but thought that I might add my 2cts :

11) Start your post with saying that the dbase is for a friend and not for yourself.

Rephrase : 4) Post in German and make it : 4) Post in Dutch

But seriously, when I signed up with this Forum, I posted a number of
simple questions, but did search first. Being dutch and not having an English mother tongue, the responses given where sometimes difficult to understand.
I guess that goes for most of the non-English speaking posters.

In my not so humble opinion, if you don't wake up at three in the morning a few times and say "OMG, that's it" then go to the computer and finish the code, you just aren't serious about programming, and probably shouldn't be here to begin with.

I do hear what Wiz is saying, but please remember that not all posters on this forum are programmers. I do consider it is a challenge to seek and find the appropriate code, but quite a number of posters, simply do not have the time to go indepth with VBA, hence the call for help.

As a personnel note I would say that this forum is one of the best I've seen on the web ( apart from current explosions in them 'cooler) and that I learned lots about Access which I wouldn't have without its existance.

 

[Wiz47]

... I do hear what Wiz is saying, but please remember that not all posters on this forum are programmers. I do consider it is a challenge to seek and find the appropriate code, but quite a number of posters, simply do not have the time to go indepth with VBA, hence the call for help.

I didn't mean to imply that you had to be a programmer in other languages to be here - only that it does help a bit if you have some background in programming. But with that said, a bit of sweat, and study, and determination can go a long way before asking a question. I see a lot of posts here where it is clear that no effort has been made before asking those questions. Then, there are the posters that have clearly tried to work the issue and are just stuck. (And God knows we have all been there). Those are the folks I'm more inclined to help.

 

[Wiz47]

LOL, that has happened so many times! And then I end up kicking myself as it was two words that needed swapping round, or I had inadvertently typed a comma instead of a full stop, the end result is I cant get back to sleep as I cant stop thinking how easy the solution was!

Been there ... got a t-shirt moment, huh?

 

[ghudson]

How refreshing to read a thread such as this one.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

The really GREAT and TERRIBLE thing about Access is that you can go very far without writing a line of code.

First, the query grid is powerful enough that for, say 80% to 90% of all queries, you can use only the grid and be good.

Second, the form and report wizards are powerful enough that you can build a bunch of useful forms & reports without ever once creating a new item from the blank design form. In fact, to this day, if I am going to create a new form I will do so with one of the two wizards - tabular or columnar as required - and then go back and customize.

Third, despite being much maligned, macros really do work. They are dumb and uncooperative at times, but they work.

Fourth, some control wizards will do what you want without having to write a line of VBA. Like, button wizards for save, undo, launch report, etc.

Fifth, for simple-minded stuff, the IMPORT wizards do a bang-up job.

So with all that product development, folks who don't understand programming principles can go very far. Where we run into the problem is that there comes a point where the DB admin suddenly realizes that no combination of queries and wizards will get the job done and that it is time to start writing code. That is where the panic (no relation to GaryPanic, I hope) sets in. Since I've been writing programs in one language or another since about 1968, that was no barrier at all to me. But some folks have the job thrust on them and aren't given training or even a design document for the database they have to manage - or worse, design.

This is where I get frustrated very quickly. Some of you might have noticed that I will often harp on design issues, following the old adage that 90% of programming problems are in the design phase. And some of the "newbies" haven't been exposed to that idea because of the way they got to this point.

That's why I have to remember that I, too, once was a newbie. OK, it has been a LOOONNNNNGGG time ago, but I was a newbie. Please, no snide remarks about "was the abacus invented yet?"

 

[Moniker]

Was the Abacus invented yet?

Truly, though, I've been programming since 1983 (first language was 6502 Assembler) and I get Doc's point. That's very true that the built-in wizards and automation features will do a lot for you, but I go against that on a few different areas:

- Using a switchboard is a sure sign that you don't know what you are doing, as they look ugly, and they are very limited in their functionality.

- I rarely work off of a design document. Priorities change sometimes daily, and being able to shift between multiple priorities simultaneously is a skill that is well compensated. If I had to wait for management and/or others to come up with a design, nothing would get done. I find it much easier to build a prototype and then adjust as necessary.

- I completely realize that some people are thrust into the world of SQL and VBA with little warning, and that's fine. Complex programming is not a simple thing and sometimes outside help is a true benefit. However, my original complaint as it were (and the reason I started this thread) is that many (I don't know if I can say 'majority' and be right) people use this forum as an alternative to actual learning. It'd be like me getting a new project and then having you guys write it while I haven't put an ounce of effort into it.

That being said, I'm glad to see that I'm not alone in the frustration I sometimes experience when reading through here. While I actually like to help people, I don't want to do other people's work for them. I still have a problem where instead of nudging someone in the right direction, I will flat out provide the exact answer, which is ironic since doing that continues the cycle.

Anyway, enough venting (again). Again, thanks for the responses to this thread. Hopefully, enough newer users will read this and reconsider asking, "HOw do i link form to sUbfrom Plz help k thx bye."

 

[Rich]

- Using a switchboard is a sure sign that you don't know what you are doing, as they look ugly, and they are very limited in their functionality.

So you're suggesting that both Pat Hartman and myself are stupid?

 

[Moniker]

Of course not.

It's that the switchboard becomes a crutch if you never learn how to make a "main menu" otherwise. You and Pat I'm sure can start with a blank form and make something custom that does everything a Switchboard will do and more. The problem is that some see the Switchboard as the end all be all of "main menu" designs, and when that wizard won't handle a specific situation, they don't know how to go around it.

I know there are a few dozen that frequent this place and answer the majority of the questions, and of course I mean no ill will in their particular direction. As I emailed to my boss yesterday after I had insinuated I might provide better programming guidance than him and he sarcastically said, "I think I have a little experience with this" (and this is real): "Anyway, yes you have plenty of experience and your hair looks great and wow, did you lose weight? and so on and so forth. "

 

[Brianwarnock]

Since we are talking about how long we have been programming i started in1962, but you know what , things have changed since then.

I actually thought that forums like this existed for experienced pros to help the "amateur" who cannot get training and who gets thown in the deepend, to learn and solve their problems. I never knowingly answer a students question but am prepared to go to some effort to help others aslong as i get feed back and sensible questions.I hate it when I answer the question asked and they reply " ah but I also....."

brian

 

[Bat17]

or three of us give three differnt soulutions and they reply 'thanks for the posts'
No indication of whether any of the solutions actualy worked!

Peter

 

[boblarson]

Or they give the response, "I tried that but I'm getting an error." No posting of the error or anything.

 

[Len Boorman]

I think that one of the biggest problems that people have is not understanding the design process.

All the wizards available allow you to go a long way and that in itself creates the problem.

I have no end of "discussions" where I work when people say I want a table for this report or the like. This is not a good design process as we all know.

Trying to explain when I will not give them a table for a report is difficult. I generally resort to "You tell me what you want and let me provide it"

Do you tell a surgeon how to do his job.

New users I think get frustrated when "We" advise them that their design is flawed and as a result a lot of their work is destined for the bin.

Excel, Word Powerpoint you can fly by the seat of your pants. Access appears that way but will bite your bum hard at some time if the design is flawed.
L

 

[MarkK]

Cool bitch session. Agreed. Yup. Yessiree.
But some devil's advocacy:
1) What a cool site this is. Sure, there's ignorance, but no more than you might expect, say, driving to work or, heaven forbid, arriving at work.
2) This is a public place so people have a right to be idiots and have unrealistic expectations, but that's definitely in the eye of the beholder. I've seen posts I thought were total drivel, yet someone here managed to understand, respond, and make something cool happen.
3) I have a measure for what posts I'll respond to, and despite the foregoing unanimity, it's a good thing our measures in this respect differ, and that we have a varied tolerance for the diversity of ignorance that arrives here.

That said, are there solutions? Clearly no one who needs to read this thread will. They're busy triple posting to find some guru to do their urgent homework that has error -1234&0%0$ at some unspecified line in their mangled Private Sub tbSearch_AfterF&ckUp() event handler.

One subject that's treated poorly in Access help, and here, is debugging tools. People don't know how to set breakpoints or step through code. People don't know about the locals viewer or the call stack, so they can't follow their own code and they keep getting stuck with the same kinds of debugging problems and the same lack of tools to solve them. If I have a suggestion, it's that we advertise these features more readily.

2 cents worth,
Cheers,
Mark

 

[Dennisk]

Many years ago when PCs became commonplace in my organisation I came accross an Individual who was developing a system for his office. He started phoning me up regularly asking 'how do you do this and that' etc. In the end I said to him 'while you are doing my job, who's doing yours!'. he never phoned me again and its a phrase I still have to use even now.

 

[Brianwarnock]

He started phoning me up regularly asking 'how do you do this and that' etc. In the end I said to him 'while you are doing my job, who's doing yours!'. even now.

Many years ago just as word processing was taking off I was on a management traing course and one of the business managers said to me, " I'm not getting rid of my secretary I'm a branch manager not a typist, it's a waste of time my spending hours doing what she can do in minutes, and who's going to correct my grammar?"

a sensible guy I've seen too many managers wrestling with spreadsheets unsuccessfully or atleast longwindedly, god knows what happens when they try ACCESS.

Brian

 

[Brianwarnock]

Another pet hate txt spelling, I'm prepared to try my best for people whose first language is not English, even American spelling , but not txt speak.

Brian

 

[ColinEssex]

In the NHS, you're lucky to find a manager who knows how to use any normal software.

I've spoken to loads who are unable to even perform a copy / paste operation successfully.

PC literacy is not an NHS managerial requirement for a £70,000 or £80,000 managerial salary.

Col

 

[stallyon]

I stumbled across this site while looking into developing something and love this post....

I work as a consultant and used to log into quite a few project forums. guys post the work they want doing, you tell them how much it will cost, you agree a figure, you do the work and they pay you. I've stopped visiting these now as 95% of the time it's always someone who is obviously at college and is doing a course in programming and want their assignment/homework completed. easy money but along followed problems.

its ok doing the work for them but most of the time they do not understand what you have done and as always you pass the exam for them and they then end up working as a programmer somewhere and not knowing the first thing about real programming. i've been developing bespoke applications now for about 15 years and am majority self taught from my early days playing with basic on a zx spectrum but it still makes me wince (and laugh slightly) when I get an email from someone i did some work for while they were at college - they now have a job and need help doing some database work...easy money...thanks

 

[ColinEssex]

You can easily spot the students wanting their "homework" done because we get 6 or 7 different posts within about a week regarding the same database topic and usually the same questions

We usually direct them to the Access help or guide them to search for keywords that they may not know yet, then let them work it out themselves.

Col