Top 10 Ways To Not Get An Answer

aye, i dont know why they bother. if they just said i need to write a report on normalization to third normal form then i'd help out but to copy and paste the homework question word for word....almost makes me want to post an email to their course tutor and request the credit :p
 
Well, what about a top ten ways to get an answer?

I have wondered if my self-imposed rules actually work; hard to say since it's entirely voluntary and if I wanted advice right now this moment, I'd have to cough up some dough. :)

Anyway, my rules are:

1) If I'm to bump a thread, don't post "Bump" but rather post efforts you've had tried since you posted. Gotta do some homework. Don't bump a thread until a day at least.

2) Don't say "I can't find it anywhere!" which will envoke some skepticism. Better to say, "I looked at templates but they didn't answer my questions or I found a thread (link) which touch on something I want to know about but I need more details, or even better yet, reply to an already popular thread.

3) Be verbose. I have yet to meet someone who can instantly understand others' database design from a sentence. It doesn't hurt to re-state problem in more than one way. Of course, paragraphs will be required if anybody is to make sense of your rambling. Or, a picture is worth 1000 words and a stripped down database is worth 10,000,000 words.

4) Karma. Pay back. Even if you're just sorta of getting hang of it, you can alway look at other threads and maybe stumble across one that you can answer yourself and a big plus is that you get to learn about it that may be useful down the road. Besides, nobody likes a leech.

That's all I can think of now.

That said, I have observed two things, but can't really make conclusions of this:

1) almost invariably, a thread will be between a noob and a expert. On occasions, other may chime in, but I'd wager that if we looked at the composition of all threads, no more than 3 members will have posted in large majority of thread.

2) For me (I could be just unlucky :)), I've gotten solutions from this place, and I'm grateful for those. I usually follow up with a theoretical discussion of the solution, mainly to ensure that I did understand the solution, then get no reply.

Because as others has already stated, everyone posts on a voluntary basis and there is no obligations whatever on anybody's part to reply, which is why I'd assume that there are several good reasons why those two scenarios happened.

Make of it as you will.
 
A couple of thoughts in passing.

First, a switchboard form designed by an idiot looks idiotic. (Well, DUH...) A switchboard form designed by someone who has some design expertise can be pretty slick. Switchboards, like any other tool in your toolbox, are only as good as the person using them. So don't go criticizing switchboards. If yours don't measure up, don't look at ACCESS as the problem. Look on the web for topics such as "visual design aesthetics" - and trust me, they exist.

Second, I took a variant on the 'while you are doing my job, who's doing yours!' comment. My own witty retort :p was "Since I'm doing about half of your job, too, can I have half your salary?" Turned out that the guy had been hired so cheaply that half of nothing was still nothing. THEN is when I understood why I had been forced into doing somebody else's work. Which led me to the moral dilemma of bitchin' to the boss or just letting the matter slide, knowing that at least this dunce was not on the dole at the moment. Fortunately, in our environment, people get shuffled often enough that the problem resolved itself quickly. He got transferred, someone else got the duty, and I got off the hook for training the guy.

Third, I work in a U.S. Government office. Regarding the quote, "I'm not getting rid of my secretary I'm a branch manager not a typist, it's a waste of time my spending hours doing what she can do in minutes, and who's going to correct my grammar?" I think the answer is NO ONE, based on the memos, notes, letters, and instructions I've seen that were digitally signed by the manager. To them, I think "Grammar" is that nice little old lady who used to bake cookies for you when you were younger. Spelling? Wait, isn't that the name of a blonde actress? Typist? Aw, heck - if I get within one or two keys distance from the right one most of the time, it will be readable. God, I wish I were joking, but the really sad part is that I'm not.

Our documentation department used to hate seeing me coming because I always gave them a technical document that could be measured by the stacked inch. But they also knew there would be very vew grammatic errors, spelling errors, or technically incorrect statements. Of course, as a hobbyist writer, I have more than passing exposure to writing. Or, as I sometimes say, I write government documents by day and fanasy fiction by night. Almost no re-training required! :D

Fourth, - "PC literacy is not an NHS managerial requirement for a £70,000 or £80,000 managerial salary." Ditto for USA $90K+, if it is a Federal Government job. I don't qualify for any of those jobs, though, because I have this congenital defect... I want to feel as though I've EARNED my salary. Darn the bad luck, to be actually afflicted with a work ethic.

But where the above stays within the theme of this topic is that the schmucks who ask us to do their homework end up getting these cushy government jobs because they passed the minimum proficiency on their way to a business or government or management degree - while many of us had that really impractical viewpoint that we actually wanted to do something useful with our education. Oh, if only I knew back then what I know now!

Maybe, as a way of improving the breed, we should start giving wrong answers when it smells like a homework job. Or give the yutzes a copy of their homework in which we have surreptitiously embedded comments talking about a book publisher called the ID-10-T company.

Amazing how good a serious rant can make you feel!
 
Look on the web for topics such as "visual design aesthetics" - and trust me, they exist.
As I am the only one who does the db's here and then they are meant to be fitted in around my 'real job', they get Battleship Grey for every form! any colour on my forms has a function purpose not aesthetic :-)

one more tip for posting though is to make good use of the first few lines of the post that show up in the tool tip, I quite often use the tip to decide which questions to read first

Peter
 
Oh, the ID-10-T comments take you back, don't they? Those are very similar to PEBCAK malfunctions. :P

As for working for the government, I'm tempted to forward that one to my brother as he's been with the FAA for 20 something years, makes a ton of cash, and couldn't program his way out of a wet paper bag. Yet somehow, he's the administrator of their internal web development of some sort. (I don't know all the details.)

I think the bigger issue was touched on earlier, and that is that people who use Word, Excel and PowerPoint think that Access will work just like those, and it doesn't. It's especially confusing to Excel users because tables and forms in datasheet view can look an awful lot like Excel, but they function completely differently.

One of the biggest humps for Access newbies to get over is understanding that you have to design your database -- there isn't a "do all the design for me" button as it were. Yes, there are wizards that will do some of it, but inevitably, once people start to understand just what a DB can do, they want it to do everything while only knowing how to do very little.

Look at all the posts on these forums about "How to I export to Excel?" and "How can I email?" and "How to I merge with Word?". I know I've personally posted at least a dozen time about how to connect to application objects and what references to use, but that's a core concept that is missing. Everything on the computer is an object that, if the API is written (and it is for most major Windows applications), can be accessed through code. For whatever reason, that sort of conceptualization is lost. Everything gets boiled down to some very specific need for a very specific situation, which nine times out of ten is the wrong way to go about something.

I could go off on how people don't seem to "get" conditional statements, syntax, etc. but I think I'd just be regurgitating the frustrations that others are already expressing. The true frustration is that, regardless of how many times these core concepts are explained (with examples even), it often times doesn't seem to sink in. It's like the three year old that keeps asking "Why?" and you provide a dozen answers before finally saying, "Because I said so!"
 
Moniker said:
One of the biggest humps for Access newbies to get over is understanding that you have to design your database -- there isn't a "do all the design for me" button as it were. Yes, there are wizards that will do some of it, but inevitably, once people start to understand just what a DB can do, they want it to do everything while only knowing how to do very little.
I am currently trying to help someone on the forum with a database like that. It has been hard to keep answering questions about how to do stuff when, if they designed the tables and relationships properly in the first place then would not have the problems they are having.
 
I have read bobs last post - and agree
I usually - look at the problem - walk away from it - have a couple of tea and then split the problem down into components -
normally I can figure out the components then it just joining them together - this does not always work - but it does should a degree of thinking

I have a problem that I am working on now - and I digest it - then can I do it - is there another way to do this easier - thne look at the book - then the samples - then ask for guidance
The one currently is aggrigations - I understand it - I know its do-able (in the format I want) I've read the book - I've tried it (didn't work) and now I re-think-re-read and then have a tantrum- I've parked this problem to 1 side as I know the answer is there, and I need to figure it out myself (and someone the otherday did a post on this issue

if its mathmatical I can usually figure it out - join qry freak me out - but thats the join of learning having a freaky problem , and wrangling with it and - bang hey presto - all becomes clear
 
sorry for the number of typo's in this post -think and not typing properly

:-}
 
another way not to get an answer is to insult everyone -
i tried this but you muppets don't answer !! is not really going to get you off to a good start.
 
I'm so glad this post got referenced here...

It's actually a pretty funny thread. I think we may have to pitch in for gas money for Dennis. What a trooper! ;0
 
Moniker said:
I'm so glad this post got referenced here...

It's actually a pretty funny thread. I think we may have to pitch in for gas money for Dennis. What a trooper! ;0

Been struggling all day to work something out had a headache Until I laft my socks of at that post thanks Moniker you made me feel a whole lot better
 
I'd like to add my unimportant thought...This forums and a lot of members(seniors, veterans) are so helpful, best on the net. Its not just the help given but the the willingness to share that is amazing.i learnt a lot from here. Thank you and APPRECIATE!:)
 
dvh, as long as people remember that we are all volunteers helping out of the goodness of our hearts; as long as people realize that we have jobs and lives of our own; as long as folks understand that we are human; then we can handle some of the worst parts of this forum. But it is nice to hear folks say they appreciate what we all do.

And sometimes we get into some really nice discussions as a sideline. Such as my recent exploration of nulls with Banana. In my case, I've always been a teacher in one form or another. I enjoy it. And it is great to have folks demonstrate the ability to THINK.

Your thought is not unimportant. I just wish some others had that attitude.

And now for something completely different...

Earlier someone talked about homework problems and how they crop up with near clockwork regularity. The one I think took the cake was the yutz who wanted to write an airline booking database. As if SABRE hadn't been created years ago. Jeez, Louise! That and the used car database really irk me. Both were so OBVIOUSLY class assignments. Gave me a cognitive dissonance because I so wanted to tell the plane scheduler that I hoped his planes never left the runway. It's hard to remember to be nice to the chowderheads who think they are getting away with something.

So if any of you see me on a rant of a non-techie nature, check the topic to which I responded and see if it doesn't look familiar.
 
My post lives! :)

Accessman2003, I hope you're reading. I don't want to make enemies, but wow, there's a reason this post has had over 1,000 views.

BTW, I have this query that just won't work. PLZ HELP!!!! (OK, kidding.)

Even if you don't read the whole thing (there's a lot here), please look at the original top ten and keep them in mind when posting. I almost feel guilty answering questions that fall under those. No, I'm not perfect and I screw up, but jeez, I'm glad there was an impression made.
 
A (perhaps) related question to Moniker's original post: When someone should / shouldn't reply?

My thoughts are that I wish to contribute and if I don't, I should not be surprised if nobody responds to any problems I post, but as am amateur user, am hesitant to do so as since I have been here (a very short time) I have discovered maybe 2 or 3 (thousand) bad habits that I have that I may pass on

Should I respond and hope that more experienced users correct any bad advice, or just bite my tongue and let the experts fix it - again & again & etc

Already I have committed about 5 of the top 10 (and promise not to do so again) but let's face it I'm

a) middle aged
b) male
c) Australian

Read the instructions!!! things only ever work by yelling and swearing at them until they do what you want!
 
A (perhaps) related question to Moniker's original post: When someone should / shouldn't reply?

My thoughts are that I wish to contribute and if I don't, I should not be surprised if nobody responds to any problems I post, but as am amateur user, am hesitant to do so as since I have been here (a very short time) I have discovered maybe 2 or 3 (thousand) bad habits that I have that I may pass on

Should I respond and hope that more experienced users correct any bad advice, or just bite my tongue and let the experts fix it - again & again & etc

As somebody with a fair degree of Access experience and 40 years programming experience I welcome answers from anybody who can give a little insight to a problem. The easiest problems to give help on are those you have solved recently so a relative newby may well have a useful contribution.

In the relatively short time I have been on this forum, I have noticed that many postings result from the fact that people have not understood how an access database should be designed - it isn't just a larger version of Excel!

Time and time again I read replies from the deservedly respected gurus of this forum suggesting that people read up on normalisation etc.

Finally, might it not be helpful if a moderator could change the thread title to something that might be more useful when you are searching the forum.
 
Last edited:
Having got here, I did many searches on Normalisation and largely came up with diddly squat - it was not until I did several Google searches that I finally found an answer in PLAIN ENGLISH that I realised the training I had been given was largely correct, the naming conventions were seriously awry
(I am currently indisposed rewiting several databases into a more conventional format)

A Key user guide into
a) Your problem (as you can describe it) into
b) The best way to do a search for this type of problem

may well help novices / amatuers from wasting the time of Experts
 
David, there have been posts in the reference sections of this forum to cover those topics.

But I do understand that part of the problem is naming conventions. Thanks to the p|ss|ng war between Bill Gates and Larry Ellison, nomenclature isn't as consistent as we would like it because BOTH of these ego-giants think they have a corner on the DB market. And you guessed it, they don't agree on what to call certain things. Why am I not surprised?

But to be honest, IBM started it all by introducing training to proprietary systems back too many moons ago. Using the idea that if they taught you their systems and no others, you would want to buy MORE of their systems and no others... following up on what you knew and avoiding the unfamiliar.

Worked, too, until someone caught on and filed an anti trust suit that took the last eight years of Judge John Sirica's life - he retired through this case. And by the time the verdict was rendered, the case had become moot through competition and third-party knock-offs.
 
My 'problem' with naming conventions is that nobody told me there were any (the earlier crack about reading instructions - not likely! is largely true) Since I haved searched and found some good documents, the error of my ways and especially how it can cause performance issues has been well pointed out

The joy / pain of learning

As to the rest, the longer I'm here, the more I will learn - it's a gr8 place!
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom