Unimaginable Events in California (1 Viewer)

[Cotswold]

We hope that none of the members of Access World are affected by the LA fires and are safe during this terrible event. I cannot imagine how millions of people can be so quickly devastated by this. It could never happen in England. We have just seen the latest footage today and it is simply unbelievable with huge areas simply destroyed within days.

Stay safe if possible and we hope that everyone can recover their lives from these apocalyptic fires.

 

[AccessBlaster]

I'm about an hour south of the fire(s)

Santa Ana winds coupled with bad liberal policies make for a devastating combo.

 

[pbaldy]

My brother lives in the area and had to evacuate. So far his place is safe, but...

Why couldn't it happen in England?

 

[Cotswold]

Why couldn't it happen in England?

We don't have any great density of population near any large forests, or wooded areas. Fires here are more likely on moors, over high ground where there tend to be few trees. But they do not as far as I can recall, threaten major towns. We are probably more likely to have flooding and that will tend not to affect even a million at one time. If there an unusually heavy snowfall it is usually a problem as most counties don't have a single snow plough. In general we aren't equipped for anything unusual anyway. With the flooding, politicians do just enough to allow us to buy insurance and not a lot more.

<p.s.added later>
Afterwards I did think that our houses have far less wood than yours and those I've seen in Australia.
Invariably, 11" outside brick & block outer walls, any load bearing inside walls are 4½" and party walls in semi-detached and terraces are 9" brick. It is not unusual if a semi, or a terrace catches fire, for the adjacent property to only suffer smoke damage. Very rarely do both burn out the inside. Even a detached we don't see just a remaining chimney stack. Footage I've seen was of acres of remaining chimney stacks.

 

[pbaldy]

We don't have any great density of population near any large forests, or wooded areas. Fires here are more likely on moors, over high ground where there tend to be few trees. But they do not as far as I can recall, threaten major towns. We are probably more likely to have flooding and that will tend not to affect even a million at one time. If there an unusually heavy snowfall it is usually a problem as most counties don't have a single snow plough. In general we aren't equipped for anything unusual anyway. With the flooding, politicians do just enough to allow us to buy insurance and not a lot more.

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks!

 

[Steve R.]

To implement their insane green policies, California has been at "war" with the utility companies for years. Now we are seeing the massive detrimental effects of these green policies.

As an aside: some statements have been issued that air quality is unhealthy and that much of the debris is toxic. Given that, how can the greenies even allow the rebuilding of the areas destroyed by the fires? After all they don't want infrastructure such as electric generating facilities built or petroleum pipelines built, etc. The greenies are going to have a massive moral dilemma on their hands.

 

[pbaldy]

In the western US power companies have started to cut power to high-risk areas during some storms (high winds predicted). Not sure if it's happening elsewhere. Bummer on all that stuff in your refrigerator and freezer.

 

[AccessBlaster]

 

[pbaldy]

View attachment 117911

I'll play devil's advocate and ask where they were supposed to store the water? Lakes only hold so much before they overflow. I'm guessing most of them were full after the big rain years (they were around here). New dams would be very expensive and probably shot down anyway. "Dumping into the Pacific Ocean" is the natural course of things. Out west water flows from the mountains to the Pacific.

 

[AngelSpeaks]

I'll play devil's advocate and ask where they were supposed to store the water? Lakes only hold so much before they overflow. I'm guessing most of them were full after the big rain years (they were around here). New dams would be very expensive and probably shot down anyway. "Dumping into the Pacific Ocean" is the natural course of things. Out west water flows from the mountains to the Pacific.

Their reservoirs are way below capacity.

 

[Pat Hartman]

The Salton Sea (which was an accidental creation and not natural) is almost dry. It could have held a lot of the runoff.

People want to live in the forested hills and on the sea shore. Both are places prone to natural disaster. Ordinary people would not build in places that are perpetually in danger from forest fires or flooding if they couldn't insure their properties. So why do the rest of us who live in less dangerous places, have to subsidize those who want trophy properties in the hills and on waterfront?

Fire is natures way of cleaning out the debris. Some seeds actually require fire to germinate. Once we decide to stop this natural occurrence, we open ourselves up to actual disasters. California's idiot policies that prevent controlled burns in highly populated areas are as stupid as stupid can get. This happens over and over again. They have heavy rains, the underbrush grows lush. The rains stop. The underbrush dries out and becomes fuel just laying on the ground. A spark flies and thousands of homes are destroyed. Repeat the cycle. How stupid do you have to be to not see this as a problem?

 

[Steve R.]

A theme not currently being discussed: "not allowing people to build in hazardous areas". To a degree that discussion is a non-starter since most areas in coastal California are hazardous due to the mountainous terrain. Anyway, no re-building should be allowed in the strip of land between the Pacific Coast Highway and the Pacific Ocean. Nerveless, all those screaming about the dangers of sea level rise who previously lived there will probably hypocritically demand that they have a right to rebuild.

 

[Steve R.]

They have heavy rains, the underbrush grows lush.

Just to add, the fires have eliminated the underbrush for now. When the rains come, but before the underbrush grow lush again, there will be massive mud flows. We may even see some homes being washed away by these mud flows.

 

[AccessBlaster]

It's the 100 mph winds.

 

[pbaldy]

Their reservoirs are way below capacity.

Cite? In any case, they probably should be. They have to allow for the winter rain and spring snow melt. Many lakes out here are fed by large watersheds. They have to estimate what will be entering the lake in the future and allow for it. Water can often enter the lake faster than they can safely let it out. They are also typically required to let a certain amount OUT of the lake to maintain flows to downstream users. It's a very complicated job, and I won't pretend to understand it all. I do know that it's not a case of "keep them full all the time".

 

[pbaldy]

The Salton Sea (which was an accidental creation and not natural) is almost dry. It could have held a lot of the runoff.

Good thought, but I don't think practical. It's not along the routes the water comes in from. Closest is the Colorado River Aqueduct, but I suspect they're already pulling as much as the can from that. Most of the rest is stolen piped from northern California, and the Salton Sea is to the south. Tough task to move it there.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I've been watching this on-line and some questions have popped up that begin to show a touch of desperation. For example, folks are now asking why they can't use ocean water to fight the fires.

First, the salt water will corrode the pumps and other equipment. Since that equipment will be under strain from high levels of use, it will quickly get hot from simple friction in the motors and that will increase the chemical potential of the corrosive elements flowing through the metal parts. Rule of thumb: A 10-degree Celsius rise in temperature DOUBLES the strength of most chemical effects - including corrosion. (That doubling is approximate and valid only in the range of temperatures where H2O is still a liquid.)

Second, all that salt hitting that fire will cause the water to evaporate (which is actually what you want, 'cause that cools the fire - something like 540 calories per cubic centimeter of evaporating water) - but it will poison the ground in a way that plants won't grow for a while. Too much salt in too high a concentration. Can you say "future mudslides"? I knew you could.

Third, for some of the places very close to the coast, that might work, but you would be pumping water uphill in really large quantities and that will more rapidly burn out pump motors from the strain.

Much as I hate to say it, this is a problem that will have to burn itself out. At which point some folks will be facing some serious questions about whether they will want to rebuild - and whether they CAN rebuild, given that insurance companies had already started dropping folks for living in dangerous areas. If you can't get insurance AND can't self-insure AND can't self-finance, it might be time to live elsewhere.

 

[AccessBlaster]

I'll play devil's advocate and ask where they were supposed to store the water? Lakes only hold so much before they overflow. I'm guessing most of them were full after the big rain years (they were around here). New dams would be very expensive and probably shot down anyway. "Dumping into the Pacific Ocean" is the natural course of things. Out west water flows from the mountains to the Pacific.

We have an aqueduct system that feeds large reservoirs.

Castaic Lake
Pyramid Lake
San Gabriel Reservoir
Big Tujunga Reservoir
Whittier Narrows Reservoir

The point is Newsome was suppose to expand on them. Everyone knows we have Santa Ana winds and a fire danger every year, this is not something new.

 

[pbaldy]

For example, folks are now asking why they can't use ocean water to fight the fires.

I saw video on the news that they are using air tankers that can refill their tanks by skimming across the water. They were refilling in the ocean, though to your point there wouldn't be any pumps involved in that process.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I saw video on the news that they are using air tankers that can refill their tanks by skimming across the water. They were refilling in the ocean, though to your point there wouldn't be any pumps involved in that process.

True, but the salt pollution of the ground would be a result. Not to mention if it fell on any cars that hadn't been melted quite yet, their finishes might not be pristine either.