Access On New Computer

[amorosik]

Sometimes analogies are not intended to be "reality"; sometimes analogies are intended to illustrate a point about logic, which in this case is that the expectation of "forever green products" is not realistic.

The_Doc_Man's more technical explanation is on point. I don't think it's just that it would cannibalize sales from newer products, though.
It's the whole phenomenon of backwards compatibility. It would mean that MS, or Quicken, or Adobe, etc., or any other software vendor would have to guarantee compatibility across all of their products, and do so indefinitely. If you want Office 2013, why not Access 2.0?

Even if the market share for Office 2013 is, say, 10% of the total, and the market share for Access 2.0 is less than 1%, they would have to invest in making sure they were still compatible with the other 89%. They would also have to ensure that security updates were pushed back into the older versions forever as well.

You could offer to pay those costs as part of your license agreement for an older version, I suppose. I'd go along with that, in fact, as long as those costs were borne by the purchasers of older versions and not merged with the costs of owning and using newer versions.

It's also true that companies want to continue to sell newer products. I suppose that's a matter of wanting to stay in business, unless they can figure out a way to get people to keep paying for that Office 2010 installation they bought a decade ago.

Of course, an analogy serves to indicate a logic in treating similar things
And a car is not similar to a software product which is immaterial
And therefore the logic to be used in dealing with these two types of products must be different

"..They would also have to ensure that security updates.."
No, this isn't true
Let's take the example of Office 2021 and Office 2013
If support for Office 2013 ceased in 2015, it is obvious that no request for updates or corrections or technical assistance can be forwarded to the manufacturer.
If technical support has ceased it means that it is over and that's it
But this has no bearing on the impossibility of downgrading Office 2021 to the 2013 version
Which is a formal act with which the manufacturer recognizes the possibility of using Office 2013 to a buyer of Office 2021
All technical issues are of no importance in this case

I am not purchasing a product for which the manufacturer should feel obligated to provide assistance
I am purchasing the possibility of using an old software, no longer supported, and I am aware of it
If it is good for me why shouldn't it also be convenient for the manufacturer?

 

[gemma-the-husky]

I think it's probably unreasonable to expect manufacturers to still supply deprecated products which simply because they are old may well contain insecurities that have been dealt with in later issues.

Maybe users need to retain their original installation material and installation information just in case, as that might help, but as everything gets downloaded at point of installation even that is less likely to be a valid option.

 

[LarryE]

I perfectly understand the motivations that Microsoft can bring
But this does not mean that they are acceptable, from my point of view the constraints that Microsoft would like to impose are not acceptable
I have already solved the problem of installing and using Office 2013
I wanted to bring my experience to the Plog request

No software developer should be expected to support every version of every software product for every machine forever. If you wish to somehow find an old version of some software and use it, that is fine, but don't expect the developer to support it.

 

[amorosik]

I think it's probably unreasonable to expect manufacturers to still supply deprecated products which simply because they are old may well contain insecurities that gave been dealt with in later issues.

Maybe users need to retain their original installation material and installation information just in case, as that might help, but as everything gets downloaded at point of installation even that is less likely to be a valid option.

No one expects Microsoft to deliver obsolete products
That's not what was being discussed Again, this is not a technical problem
And the proof lies in the fact that I believe any participant in this forum would be able to install, activate, and use Office 2013

This is a 'formal' problem, which consists in the fact that the manufacturer does not authorize you to use old software, even if you agree to purchase a current version of that product and even if you agree not to receive technical assistance or updates

 

[amorosik]

No software developer should be expected to support every version of every software product for every machine forever. If you wish to somehow find an old version of some software and use it, that is fine, but don't expect the developer to support it.

No one asked for support, updates, assistance of any kind

"..If you wish to somehow find an old version of some software and use it, that is fine,.."
No, is not fine, for Microsoft

 

[AccessBlaster]

I would suggest that you do a web search for 3rd-party software vendors who might have an old Office 2013 kit. Such kits come with at least one right-to-run license. Might not be very expensive.

MS Office2016 Professional is the oldest version I have seen from a third party $USD 37.12

 

[Gasman]

Well I upgraded to 2019 from 2007 mainly so as to be able to open later access dbs.
Haven't found any issues with Excel or Word. In fact I like one aspect of Excel where you can include macros on the QA Toolbar, but for specific files, whereas 2007 was all or nothing. However to me Outlook 2019 was far inferior to 2007 for my use at least, so I reinstalled Outlook 2007 and am using that again.

 

[amorosik]

MS Office2016 Professional is the oldest version I have seen from a third party $USD 37.12

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I haven't found the 2k

 

[AngelSpeaks]

When I sign onto my Microsoft account, I can still download the 2013 versions that my old computer has.

 

[AccessBlaster]

When I sign onto my Microsoft account, I can still download the 2013 versions that my old computer has.

That was my experience also when I was enrolled in the HUP program. I could log in and download the version that was associated with my District email, I did that for years until I retired.

 

[amorosik]

When I sign onto my Microsoft account, I can still download the 2013 versions that my old computer has.

Obviously, but if you need another pc with that Office version?

 

[GPGeorge]

Of course, an analogy serves to indicate a logic in treating similar things
And a car is not similar to a software product which is immaterial
And therefore the logic to be used in dealing with these two types of products must be different

"..They would also have to ensure that security updates.."
No, this isn't true
Let's take the example of Office 2021 and Office 2013
If support for Office 2013 ceased in 2015, it is obvious that no request for updates or corrections or technical assistance can be forwarded to the manufacturer.
If technical support has ceased it means that it is over and that's it
But this has no bearing on the impossibility of downgrading Office 2021 to the 2013 version
Which is a formal act with which the manufacturer recognizes the possibility of using Office 2013 to a buyer of Office 2021
All technical issues are of no importance in this case

I am not purchasing a product for which the manufacturer should feel obligated to provide assistance
I am purchasing the possibility of using an old software, no longer supported, and I am aware of it
If it is good for me why shouldn't it also be convenient for the manufacturer?

Caveat emptor.
But first you have to find a willing seller....

Maybe searching 3rd party resellers can turn one up.

What's good for you may or may not be convenient for anyone else, including manufacturers. One doesn't follow the other at all.

But it's clear this is a pointless discussion from which I must withdraw. Reason flees in the face of intransigence.

 

[AngelSpeaks]

Obviously, but if you need another pc with that Office version?

I am able to download it to another computer. Since it's a single computer license, I probably would have to uninstall it from the older pc.

 

[KitaYama]

@amorosik
May I ask a question?
Let's imagine Software manufacturers follow what you expect. You purchase a current version of Microsoft Office and downgrade it to 2013.
Now let's imagine you face a problem. Access 2013 could do something at the time, but now when you try to do the same task, it throws an error and resists to perform it.

What do you expect?
Do you expect : Calling them and ask them why what 2013 could do at the time, can not do it now?
Do you expect them to solve the problem?
What exactly you expect them to do for you (or other several million possible people who have downgraded) in case of problems, errors?

One more question if you don't mind.
Do you have any idea what a mess it would be if the manufactures allowed downgrading?
For example a Win 10 PC that has Office2013, Adobe 2010, Norton 2020, QuickBook 2016, Internet Explorer 9, and several other deprecated software installed.
Do you really think all these will work together?
Do you really expect downgrading to Microsoft Access 2000 and still being able to use web browser control in a form when you have latest Microsoft Edge browser installed?

 

[amorosik]

@amorosik
May I ask a question?
Let's imagine Software manufacturers follow what you expect. You purchase a current version of Microsoft Office and downgrade it to 2013.
Now let's imagine you face a problem. Access 2013 could do something at the time, but now when you try to do the same task, it throws an error and resists to perform it.

What do you expect?

Nothing
I seem to have expressed this possibility in previous posts
"..If technical support has ceased it means that it is over and that's it.."

One more question if you don't mind.
Do you have any idea what a mess it would be if the manufactures allowed downgrading?
For example a Win 10 PC that has Office2013, Adobe 2010, Norton 2020, QuickBook 2016, Internet Explorer 9, and several other deprecated software installed.
Do you really think all these will work together?
Do you really expect downgrading to Microsoft Access 2000 and still being able to use web browser control in a form when you have latest Microsoft Edge browser installed?

I repeat, as I have already written above, that the problem is not of a technical nature, but exclusively formal
Problems of a technical nature, if there are any, and since the product is out of support, you must resolve them yourself

 

[amorosik]

Reason flees in the face of intransigence.

With this sentence you make people think that there might be a reason somewhere
Much more modestly, I would speak of different opinions in dealing with a certain aspect in the supply of a product

 

[DickyP]

Thereby hangs a tale. When my PCs had died and I got a new SSD I was told Access 2003 wouldn't run on Windows 10, so I bought Office Pro 2021 from Amazon for just £29 which registers with MS without problem.

I quite like 2021 but apart from being able to an image AND text on a button, instead of either/or in really does nothing I couldn't do on 2003, and the existing Access security is gone. And the interface is really, really clunky compared to 2003.

Turns out I was misinformed about 2003 installation on Windows 10 so I now have 2003 on a second hand laptop I was given (insalled from the unlimited licence I was given on a visit to Microsft in Slough).

 

[GPGeorge]

Thereby hangs a tale. When my PCs had died and I got a new SSD I was told Access 2003 wouldn't run on Windows 10, so I bought Office Pro 2021 from Amazon for just £29 which registers with MS without problem.

I quite like 2021 but apart from being able to an image AND text on a button, instead of either/or in really does nothing I couldn't do on 2003, and the existing Access security is gone. And the interface is really, really clunky compared to 2003.

Turns out I was misinformed about 2003 installation on Windows 10 so I now have 2003 on a second hand laptop I was given (insalled from the unlimited licence I was given on a visit to Microsft in Slough).

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Access feature comparison chart.

 

[gemma-the-husky]

If you still have the original license key, and install disks, I'm pretty sure you could reinstall and activate the software. It's easier for MS to allow a few repeat uses of keys than police the system to that extent.

 

[DickyP]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Access feature comparison chart.

You are absolutely correct

And above all I really miss Visual SourceSafe. Although I have successfully adopted a number of the suggestions from discussions of config management, it was a lot easier having it all in one place with a full history.

Secondly I miss menus - I know this ship has long since sailed but it doesn't alter the fact that they are more logical, more flexible, easier to create and maintain than ribbons, and you can put them where you want them. Not to mention the flawed logic that icons are easier to understand than words.