NauticalGent
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I gave my thumbs up because seeing the "evolution" of Access intrigued me. If I had my "druthers", I would have MS rollback to 2010 and start from there with the strict injunction that they could not remove anything...The the chart is great but it merely proves exactly my point -
I've almost gotten used to the ribbon after 17 years but I still really miss the Access database container. It was far more functional than the Nav pain (sic). All it needed was a better search. Far fewer clicks to do anything.Secondly I miss menus - I know this ship has long since sailed but it doesn't alter the fact that they are more logical, more flexible, easier to create and maintain than ribbons, and you can put them where you want them. Not to mention the flawed logic that icons are easier to understand than words.
Purely apocryphal in that we are now 14+ years on but I was told as an aside by an MS employee at slough that the team given the task of converting the menu system to xml, refused to talk to the team responsible for the menus in office and just said huge chunks of functionality were pointless so didn't bother. The same person also said that the reason the picture manager was abandoned was because the only programmer left who maintained it retired, and nobody else understood the code. This is all third hand so take with a pinch or grain (select as preferred) of salt.I've almost gotten used to the ribbon after 17 years but I still really miss the Access database container. It was far more functional than the Nav pain (sic). All it needed was a better search. Far fewer clicks to do anything.re.
I gave my thumbs up because seeing the "evolution" of Access intrigued me. If I had my "druthers", I would have MS rollback to 2010 and start from there with the strict injunction that they could not remove anything...
That is the exact way a ribbon works.I understand that the reason the MS team went with the Ribbon instead of the menus was because they were easier to manage. Well, maybe for them but not for us. The best menuing system is one that is data driven so instead of writing code, you just add rows to a table or rearrange them if you want to change the sorting and grouping.
some of us are rabidly fast (in other words, extremely fast) keyboarders. the alt shortcuts were our lifeline.menus were better and more useful than ribbon
Could you hide some menus or sub menus for some users with less privileges?
Tab control? Tab control belongs to forms, I think.Sure, just use a tab control and make tab pages visible or invisible or change them back if no security, simple
Well, it's still available in ribbon.some of us are rabidly fast (in other words, extremely fast) keyboarders. the alt shortcuts were our lifeline.
<button id="customButton" label="My Button" keytip="B" />
I don't know about that. I just think A97 and then A2003 were very mature and you could whatever you wanted with them, pretty much.I gave my thumbs up because seeing the "evolution" of Access intrigued me. If I had my "druthers", I would have MS rollback to 2010 and start from there with the strict injunction that they could not remove anything...
I find the ribbon issue is that the icons are just too big. A drop down menu was a few pixels high to start off. Dropping down a 10 option menu only used a little screen space.I'm not surprised when someone new to Access or ribbon talks like this, but when experts here insist on preferring using traditional menus over ribbons, I'm simply shocked. No offence, but if anyone thinks the traditional menus were better and more useful than current ribbon, I say you don't know how to use a ribbon.
I've had this discussion with isladogs before. It's buried somewhere here, and I don't want to go through the same routine, just adding some points.
In a ribbon, you can add Checkboxes, Toggle buttons, Textboxes, Combo boxes, Galleries and Split buttons which I don't think menu system could have them.
And if you add a sub menu, you can have Toggle buttons and checkboxes in them too. (Again I don't think it was possible in a menu)
One of the most interesting aspects of controls on a ribbon, is that they can have a super tip, something that traditional menu system lacked. (at least with this quality). A super tip can be a help file or a complete explanation of how the control works. A super tip can be multi line, and styled with html.
View attachment 115302
However, some applications use custom add-ins or third-party tools to enhance the ribbon functionality. These add-ins can provide more advanced features, such as displaying images or even GIFs when hovering over controls. This involves programming with the Office Add-in framework, which allows developers to create custom UI elements and behaviors.
Check the following gif. A mouse over a control, shows a clip on how the control is supposed to be used.
View attachment 115301
View attachment 115304
That is the exact way a ribbon works.
Most of our databases have 4 user defined tables (tblRibbons, tblTabs, tblGroups & tblcontrols) that is joined to a users level table.
On each login, a function reads the preferences and privileges of users and reconstruct the ribbon's XML according to their preferred language. Their ribbon contains only the buttons they are allowed to use.
Adding new tabs, groups or controls is done only by adding a new record to one of the tables. We don't need to go through an xml file with more than a thousands lines, search for an specific control to edit, delete or add a new control.
When you login to one of our databases, the menu can be one of 8 possible languages. After login to FE, a function with less than 50 lines of code, reads the controls from a query with above tables joined, creates the necessary xml code that only contains the controls you are allowed to use, in your preferred language, and sets this XML as the application's ribbon.
What else do you need? You only add controls to the table, nothing else.
I think I've shared a sample database there and I don't repeat it here, just check how a dynamic ribbon works.
I can't remember how I used to add a menu to a database, so for anyone who remembers I have 2 questions: (genuine question)
- Were you able to have a multi language menu? For example when a French logs in to db, all the menu change to French, or to German for someone who is more comfortable with German than English. Was it possible?
- Could you hide some menus or sub menus for some users with less privileges?
Whereas I would say you never really understood menus. Ribbons are merely intrusive, inflexible menus.I'm not surprised when someone new to Access or ribbon talks like this, but when experts here insist on preferring using traditional menus over ribbons, I'm simply shocked. No offence, but if anyone thinks the traditional menus were better and more useful than current ribbon, I say you don't know how to use a ribbon.
All these you can do on menus and you can build them as you go if you wish. To be honest after 17 years of Ribbons they have been refined down to be far less intrusive and to work far more like menus did. And their usage far better suited to Access than to Word and Excel where their implementation is spoiled by the what is included where and with what. In Word for example, as supplied, to effectively use tables you have to go to three different tabs!In a ribbon, you can add Checkboxes, Toggle buttons, Textboxes, Combo boxes, Galleries and Split buttons which I don't think menu system could have them.
And if you add a sub menu, you can have Toggle buttons and checkboxes in them too. (Again I don't think it was possible in a menu)
(at least with this quality).
As far as I know, there's no sub ribbon. You can have as many ribbon as you like, but no sub ribbon. Ribbon has tabs. you can add as many tabs as you like and control them from your forms and classes.How do you provide a sub ribbon,
The height of overall ribbon is fixed. But you can use two types as of controls on ribbon. You don't like the large controls, you can use small controls. See bellow image.I find the ribbon issue is that the icons are just too big. A drop down menu was a few pixels high to start off. Dropping down a 10 option menu only used a little screen space.
This is the main problem with those who are not familliar with ribbons. Recent monitors are wider. So the point is to put items horizontally, because you have more horizontally space in your monitor than vertically.Is it a vertical structure, or another horizontal structure?
As I said, I don't remember the menu and how it worked.All these you can do on menus and you can build them as you go if you wish.
Well, I think they can be reached easily in a menu system, but you can't see everything at the same time.As far as I know, there's no sub ribbon. You can have as many ribbon as you like, but no sub ribbon. Ribbon has tabs. you can add as many tabs as you like and control them from your forms and classes.
The height of overall ribbon is fixed. But you can use two types as of controls on ribbon. You don't like the large controls, you can use small controls. See bellow image.
This is the main problem with those who are not familliar with ribbons. Recent monitors are wider. So the point is to put items horizontally, because you have more horizontally space in your monitor than vertically.
If you insist to go vertically, (which ruins the purpose of using a ribbon) you have two options. Using menu control, and button group control. You can use one or both as many as you like to create something similar to a traditional menus.
View attachment 115310
But it ruins the purpose of using ribbon. In a ribbon controls are visible to user and they can interact with these controls easily. Why you insist on hiding your controls deep in several layers of menus and sub menus? Why not putting them somewhere that can be reached easily?
The purpose of ribbon is not to work like menus. The purpose is to create something that can interact with the user and application. It seems you're determined to compare ribbon to menu, not looking for more possibilities (and maybe sacrificing some functionalities). Did you see my gif above?refined down to be far less intrusive and to work far more like menus did