Are you an atheist?

[Brianwarnock]

At some point we appear to have started a new thread.

Brian

 

[scott-atkinson]

Scott

I have recently lost a good friend, Zolly, who came over from Hungary with his family in 1956, having seen his work ethic I never believed that all asylum seekers or immigrants were lazy.

The fact remains if these people will work for low wages then employers will exploit that to maintain low wages, this is no different to whole companies moving to a low wage economy at the expense of jobs here.

Brian

Brian,

It is the Government that see fit to set a minimum wage that nobody in the UK can live adequately on, perhaps that is why British people do not take the jobs, and the Migrants do...

This is the Governments fault that the wages are low, not the Migrants.

 

[Brianwarnock]

I disagree, if nobody would work for that wage then the employers would have to pay more, yes our food bills might rise but the people would have decent income, of course it suits politicians, employers and people in decent jobs for the menial tasks to be low paid.

Brian

 

[Vassago]

We have the same crisis with distribution of wealth happening in our country. The balance continues to shift where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. At this rate, the value of the USD will bottom out. The rich don't realize they are making their own money worthless by not paying fair wages and fighting against any federal increase that comes to bat.

Would you rather have $100 you can buy a grocery cart full of food with or $1000 that buys half?

That's what is happening here. The rich are killing the USD value. Of course, it doesn't help that it's no longer backed by gold and silver.

We also pay over 1/3 in federal taxes alone on earned income, unless you are rich. Then there are state taxes, sales tax, housing tax, luxery taxes (which even the lower class gets hit with.) So, I'm sure taxes are comparable.

 

[scott-atkinson]

I disagree, if nobody would work for that wage then the employers would have to pay more, yes our food bills might rise but the people would have decent income, of course it suits politicians, employers and people in decent jobs for the menial tasks to be low paid.

Brian

Brian,

This is a Chicken and Egg scenario...

The employers pay what they do because the Government sets the limit, so they can and do pay those salaries to who ever is willing to work for it.

If the Government made the Minimum wage higher then British people would more than likely take the jobs and migration would decline..

You will always get unscrupulous employers who will try to pay less than the minimum wage, but it is up to the Government again to enforce this..

 

[nanscombe]

I disagree, if nobody would work for that wage then the employers would have to pay more, yes our food bills might rise but the people would have decent income, of course it suits politicians, employers and people in decent jobs for the menial tasks to be low paid.

Brian

Our food bills might rise ...

... and you might have to travel further to get your groceries, because the food companies may close many of their smaller shops, leaving the massive ones out in the sticks, and make many of their already low paid employees redundant.

They could also install even more self-service tills to further reduce staffing overheads. Who needs six till operators when one person can oversee six self-service tills, whilst the customers do all their own scanning and packing.

There might be an increase in shoplifting but I'm sure that could be built into the pricing.

But yes, those who were left might be better off, unlike their ex-colleagues and the shoppers.

 

[ColinEssex]

I think the "poverty" problem is greatly exaggerated.

Since I took early retirement, I have more income now than I did writing stupid databases for the NHS.
But, and a big but, from the age of 15 I was never out of work, I paid all taxes and pension subs, slogged my guts out, often 18 hours a day holding two jobs at times to afford a mortgage (now all paid off), now I can relax and let the money roll in.

Work is out there, it's just that the modern thinking is to want the state to support everyone too lazy to seek out a job. These so called poor people still find £10 for 20 fags and £3 for a pint.

Col

 

[Bladerunner]

How are either of those even ok? Why would you sign a contract with a company that isn't offering work?

INDEED? and I thought we were talking about educated people?



have a nice day :>)
Bladerunner

 

[scott-atkinson]

I think the "poverty" problem is greatly exaggerated.

Since I took early retirement, I have more income now than I did writing stupid databases for the NHS.
But, and a big but, from the age of 15 I was never out of work, I paid all taxes and pension subs, slogged my guts out, often 18 hours a day holding two jobs at times to afford a mortgage (now all paid off), now I can relax and let the money roll in.

Work is out there, it's just that the modern thinking is to want the state to support everyone too lazy to seek out a job. These so called poor people still find £10 for 20 fags and £3 for a pint.

Col

I think it is true in some cases, and not in others.

Where I live there is a women with 5 children, one of home is disabled, she has no husband, has never worked, yet she has been given rent free a 6 bedroom house. Each child has their own lap top, and TV in their bedrooms, and she has a Large TV in her living room and she has a brand new people carrier sitting on her drive.

I know this because a friend of mine once dated her for a little while, she certainly wasn't experiencing any poverty.

Yet there are other families, where one parent works part time, they receive limited benefits, have to pay their own rent and Council tax, and they have to occasionally go to Food Banks towards the end of the month when they run out of money...

It is the latter that is feeding the Pay Day Loan sharks, that are prevalent in the UK and pray on the poor..

 

[nanscombe]

How are either of those even ok? Why would you sign a contract with a company that isn't offering work?
...

INDEED? and I thought we were talking about educated people?



have a nice day :>)
Bladerunner

What good education if you find yourself desperate, without a job for a long time and relying on benefits.

 

[Bladerunner]

What good education if you find yourself desperate, without a job for a long time and relying on benefits.

Then evidently the person is not educated enough! Why you get out and make yourself needed instead of sitting there:''Oh, I have three degrees and cannot find a job, will not someone hire me,' and say please now.

That is the problem these days. They expect everyone to go to college and there are a lot of people not fit for college.

I have always gone by this:'Set your sights High but put it in low gear to get started'.

SOme will say, that is easy for some to say but it does not work. Well it use to when the liberals were not so prevalent with their ideas of Utopia. Now like in your nation, all you have is lazy (??????????????????) who want a handout.

Oops, better stop before I ruin my day..

Have a nice day :>)
Bladerunner

 

[electricjelly]

I love that statement "If God appeared in front of me, I Might change my mind" like saying I dont believe cars exist, but if I get hit by one, then ill consider it.

Besides that, I gave up my Christian religion a little while ago, been a strange world without the christian looking lens. Its tough yet empowering knowing that the only thing that I can rely on is myself and there is no higher power watching over me and protecting me. Life hasnt been easier for sure, but I do feel like there is no more excuses for things I do, which oddly enough, makes me want to do more with my life.

 

[Libre]

I love that statement "If God appeared in front of me, I Might change my mind" like saying I dont believe cars exist, but if I get hit by one, then ill consider it.

Atheists, by their nature, want proof before they subscribe to a position or a theory. That's why they're (we're) atheists in the first place. But the same sort of critical thinker that would normally be an atheist, is the same sort that is willing to modify their beliefs in the light of strong evidence that they hadn't heretofore considered. So the statement:
"If God appeared in front of me, I Might change my mind"
is perfectly consistent with the position that "I don't accept your fantastic theory without proof, but if you do come up with the proof, then show it to me and we'll talk."
To me it's the only tenable position of the lot.
It's not like your car example.
It's more like:
I don't believe your theory that there are flocks of purple sheep on the far side of the moon. I can't disprove it but it's not up to me to do so. I'm perfectly entitled to say there there ARE no such flocks of sheep. At the same time, since such a thing is unknowable to me, I can't say without any doubt that it is absolutely impossible. Show me evidence of the sheep, and I'll reconsider.

 

[Dick7Access]

Atheists, by their nature, want proof before they subscribe to a position or a theory. That's why they're (we're) atheists in the first place. But the same sort of critical thinker that would normally be an atheist, is the same sort that is willing to modify their beliefs in the light of strong evidence that they hadn't heretofore considered. So the statement:
"If God appeared in front of me, I Might change my mind"
is perfectly consistent with the position that "I don't accept your fantastic theory without proof, but if you do come up with the proof, then show it to me and we'll talk."
To me it's the only tenable position of the lot.
It's not like your car example.
It's more like:
I don't believe your theory that there are flocks of purple sheep on the far side of the moon. I can't disprove it but it's not up to me to do so. I'm perfectly entitled to say there there ARE no such flocks of sheep. At the same time, since such a thing is unknowable to me, I can't say without any doubt that it is absolutely impossible. Show me evidence of the sheep, and I'll reconsider.

You right, no proof that you would call proof but if you are right I will never know, but if I am right you will know, boy you will know!!!!!!!

 

[The_Doc_Man]

but if I am right you will know, boy you will know!!!!!!!

This is a variant of Pascal's Wager, if you think about it. The odds of being right are about 30,000 to 1 against, based on the number of major gods offered for worship through human history, and it is worst than that if you toss in the minor deities. How do you know which one is the right god to worship?

I have no problem with someone's beliefs as long as they don't try to browbeat me or use the typical "burn in Hell" scare tactics. I actually support everyone's right to believe in their religion as they think is right. I just ask for reciprocation on that right.

 

[Libre]

You right, no proof that you would call proof but if you are right I will never know, but if I am right you will know, boy you will know!!!!!!!

If critical thinking and a natural curiosity, coupled with reluctance to accept what one is told and reinforced not by reason but by the threat of punishment - if all that means that I burn in Hell, then I was damned the moment I was conceived and at least I'll be in good company.

 

[Dick7Access]

If critical thinking and a natural curiosity, coupled with reluctance to accept what one is told and reinforced not by reason but by the threat of punishment - if all that means that I burn in Hell, then I was damned the moment I was conceived and at least I'll be in good company.

How will you know you are in good company?

 

[Libre]

How will you know you are in good company?

Because critical thinkers and skeptics are, on the whole, more interesting to talk to at cocktail parties - so by extension...

 

[Dick7Access]

Because critical thinkers and skeptics are, on the whole, more interesting to talk to at cocktail parties - so by extension...

Troube with that scenario you will be tumbling and falling, and it will be pitch black, and you will be in burning pain. Not much for talking/

 

[Libre]

Have you ever considered the possibility that only those that have the intellectual integrity to withhold judgement, to wonder at all the possibilities, and who can't be frightened into blind obedience are the ones that "shall be saved"?
No, I suppose you haven't.
But maybe you should.
Pascal's wager works both ways.
Unless you know the mind of God - if he does exist.
But thinking you understand God and have figured out his game could be a bigger sin than admitting you don't have a clue.