Are you an atheist? (1 Viewer)

Are you an atheist?


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Bladerunner
You can hardly blame Mohamed for defending himself in a war with the established order that was trying to kill him, after all you as a peace loving tolerant Christian are prepared to shoot anybody that trespasses on your property.

You need to do better in you examples. :)

Brian
 
Sorry Rabbi but to be a Christian leaves no room for the a world view of Naturalism. While I believe and have seen (so-called) short term evolution (bacteria become resistant to an antibiotic), but to believe that man just simply evolved one day, began walking upright and a few years later was gone... with another upright walking human taking his place. So nature can look around and say, hum, no humans, let me evolve one????lol

what out of 5 evolved humans nature got it right. I know , Just random coincidence.

Bladerunner, you really should try to understand what the theory of Evolution is all about before you criticise it. To debunk something when you don't understand it is merely a strawman argument and is not helpful to debate.

Plenty of good sincere Christians do accept evolution so before you condemn the theory out of hand at least find out what it is you are really criticising
 
Bladerunner, you really should try to understand what the theory of Evolution is all about before you criticise it. To debunk something when you don't understand it is merely a strawman argument and is not helpful to debate.

Plenty of good sincere Christians do accept evolution so before you condemn the theory out of hand at least find out what it is you are really criticising

so much for a spoof. Yes , I know what evolution is. Lets take man...... come from a monkey. Which time.? Which monkey. There are about 5 different types of man and they evolved over the years. But then we still have apes, right. Yeah I know the drill by archeologist who are paid by a liberal university to write a paper so they(the university) can make more money. I will take it that the bacteria morphing into bacteria that are resistant to antibiotics is not a form of evolution. Oh, guess they have to evolve from another being first????? ]

Rabbi: just like everything including Christianity there are a lot of holes to be filled in yet. As far as evolution goes, it has now been debunked by scientist.

Like you, I have picked a side to believe in. It is that simple.
 
Prepare yourself for the storm that is the atheists that is coming your way - (Not a threat, just a pre warning of what is to come via other AWFers).

The onslaught of non-believers has existed for thousands of years since the time of Adam (peace be upon him). The Messengers of God were not deterred and neither will I be, time permitting, insha-allaah.

Ill start - your view is very one sided as you are obviously a "My god is the only god" kinda guy so your opinion cannot be validated via evidence due to the common phrase of your kind "God/Allah made it". You speak with so much certainty through a book that was written not by God/allah himself but that of the hands of a man.

If there is only One True God (Arabic - Allaah) then surely my views will be that! If you read my posts I have given plenty of evidence by quoting from the Qur’an, the last revelation. You say that the book was written by a man? Which man are you referring to and what evidence do you have for that? Note that Muhammad (peace be upon him) was unread.

Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them. He will enjoin on them that which is right and forbid them that which is wrong. He will make lawful for them all good things and prohibit for them only the foul; and he will relieve them of their burden and the fetters that they used to wear. Then those who believe in him, and honour him, and help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him: they are the successful.
Say (O Muhammad): O mankind! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah to you all - (the messenger of) Him unto Whom belongeth the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth. There is no God save Him. He quickeneth and He giveth death. So believe in Allah and His messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, who believeth in Allah and in His Words, and follow him that haply ye may be led aright.

Qur’an 7:157-8

And thou (O Muhammad) wast not a reader of any scripture before it, nor didst thou write it with thy right hand, for then might those have doubted, who follow falsehood.
But it is clear revelations in the hearts of those who have been given knowledge, and none deny Our revelations save wrong-doers.

Qur’an 29:48-9

He it is Who hath sent among the unlettered ones a messenger of their own, to recite unto them His revelations and to make them grow, and to teach them the Scripture and wisdom, though heretofore they were indeed in error manifest,
Qur’an 62:2

Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from [any] other than Allaah, they would have found within it much contradiction.
Qur’an 4:82

If you think it was written by man, then find me a single contradiction in the Qur’an.

Not to expect anything much from a book (set of three books) that were written 600 years after the birth of Christ by a person who at various points of his life would make Genghis Khan seem like a light weight. I say it again, Islam is not a peaceful Religion and it is not just a religion but a social agenda (Shiria Law) and a government run by a theistic dictator.

Bladerunner there is no such thing as a set of three books. Don’t know where you are getting this from! There is the Qur’an and the Hadith. You keep on saying it’s not a peaceful religion, but you provide no evidence from the Qur’an or indeed from the Hadith! Anyone can make sweeping statements but you need to back them up with some evidence otherwise no one will take your comments seriously as I certainly don’t. Oh and BTW it’s not Shiria Law but Sharia. The word Sharia means law. Islam has been run through Sharia for many years including during the times of Moses and Jesus (peace be upon them).

No---- those are mans laws in places where there is Christianity. In Islam, it is written into the three books as law.

The laws of God were the same at the time of Jesus (peace be upon him) as they were during the time of Muhammad (peace be upon him) except for any change that were introduced 14 centuries ago e.g. alcohol ban.

Galaxiom, if the adherents of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, which are the same religion if practised in their pure and original form i.e. to be obedient to the Creator, then there would be no issues. It’s not Islam that is to blame but those who do not practice it correctly. Why is it that in places where there is a minority of Muslims in a country, things are so bad. Take the UK, there are unprecedented numbers of teenage pregnancies who in many cases are single parents, a good percentage of children don’t know who their real father is, broken marriages, alcohol abuse, promiscuity, prostitution, drug abuse, naked people dancing in licensed premises, high crime levels with large prison populations, etc. etc. The sincere practice of Islam would prevent or at least reduce these evils in society.
 
If there is only One True God (Arabic - Allaah) then surely my views will be that! If you read my posts I have given plenty of evidence by quoting from the Qur’an, the last revelation. You say that the book was written by a man? Which man are you referring to and what evidence do you have for that? Note that Muhammad (peace be upon him) was unread.

Exactly you are quoting from a book - which in your opinion is obviously written by a god - but where is your proof that it was written by "Allah" and not a deranged person with an active imagination which lead countless of generations to his same belief?

Come on give me the tiniest bit of proof ? without quoting the book in which may or may not be a fantasy novel?

If your quoting a book which may be fiction i may as well be preaching about children attending hogwarts every year to keep up to date with their magic studies. (Sound Ridiculous? - So does quoting from a book that you have no evidence was written by a so called god)
 
And thou (O Muhammad) wast not a reader of any scripture before it, nor didst thou write it with thy right hand, for then might those have doubted, who follow falsehood.
But it is clear revelations in the hearts of those who have been given knowledge, and none deny Our revelations save wrong-doers.

Was he left handed?

Brian
 
Is it weird that I find this saying "have faith" has been abused.

I feel like it enables that 1% of the people in the world to take control by keeping that "have faith" feeling that lets you feel like everything is going to be OK... just sit there and "have faith". To push this thought forward into the newer and even less religious generation. I feel like this 1% is creating a new damper, ignorance.

Now this is just a thought that comes from a mind that is not religious and is not educated in sociology or the history of religion (other than the repeated cycle of the renewal of the same story as we traverse through the ages). Just a quick thought that balances out in my mind.

I sincerely wonder what your thoughts on this are...
completely prepared for the bashing to begin on me
 
ConnorGiles, look at Qur'an 4:82 and see if you can meet the challenge. If you can find a single contradiction in the Qur'an I'm happy to accept that the Qur'an must be the work of man and not God.
 
ConnorGiles, look at Qur'an 4:82 and see if you can meet the challenge. If you can find a single contradiction in the Qur'an I'm happy to accept that the Qur'an must be the work of man and not God.

121 contradictions in the text of the Qu'ran can be found HERE.

Of course, the Bible has even more. Likely the Torah, too.
 
so much for a spoof. Yes , I know what evolution is. Lets take man...... come from a monkey. Which time.? Which monkey. There are about 5 different types of man and they evolved over the years. But then we still have apes, right. Yeah I know the drill by archeologist who are paid by a liberal university to write a paper so they(the university) can make more money. I will take it that the bacteria morphing into bacteria that are resistant to antibiotics is not a form of evolution. Oh, guess they have to evolve from another being first????? ]

As far as evolution goes, it has now been debunked by scientist.
Given that was possibly the worst understanding of how evolution has been proposed to work I've ever read, it's not surprising you reject it.
 
Frothingslosh, rather than just giving a web link, could you give me a single case (use the web link by all means or any other if you wish) that you feel is a strong candidate, so that I can give you a direct answer. Thanks.

One thing to note that many alleged contradictions aren't conradictions at all because:-

1. Bad english translations
2. verses are quoted out of context
3. verses are quoted out of historical context
 
You don't get to move the goalposts. You asked for a single contradiction, and I provided a list of 121 of them, with each item in the list in turn linking to a detailed analysis.

Now you are hemming and hawing because I provided a link instead of copying and pasting 121 different discussion pages, and because I didn't provide original research in the original Arabic. Glad to see you're just as disingenuous as Bladerunner.
 
121 contradictions in the text of the Qu'ran can be found HERE.

Of course, the Bible has even more. Likely the Torah, too.

Well said and also

Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from [any] other than Allah , they would have found within it much contradiction.

Theres you're books passage - as little sense as this passage makes it is still obtained within a book you have no way of proving that anyone other than a simple human being wrote it? - another thing , you referred to this passage to prove me wrong but how in any way, shape or form prove me wrong since it is still words that could have been written via the hand of man. Most unlikely the hands of Allah/God
 
ConnorGiles, if you look at Qur'an 21:30 which is the signature I am using, if you can explain how a human being could have known how the universe was created 14 centuries ago when the earliest time we knew this was in the 1920's by a Russian named Alexander Friedmann.

Frothingslosh, you seemed to have got upset very quickly for no reason. I didn't say I wouldn't look at the alleged contradictions, I was simply trying to let you pick one, that was all. It would take me a long time to look at all 121 of them, which I hope you can appreciate. I will pick one myself and come back just so that you don't think I'm evading the issue. I wouldn't give you guys a challenge if I wasn't prepared to step up, so to speak.

Watch this space.
 
Your signature says that the heavens and the earth WERE together - stating it as a fact - however a fact requires evidence and i'm seeing a gargantuan lack of evidence on your behalf aziz - Stating something from a book which may not be true cannot be given as valid evidence.
 
You may also learn a lot from this thread aziz - read the numerous amounts of peoples views. - try not to throw out your opinions as facts, since they cannot be validated with evidence they cannot be stated as fact.
 
Sorry, I wasn't upset, I just have a very blunt way of writing, and it often comes across that way.

The problem is you're still moving the goalposts. You have gone from "If you can find a single contradiction in the Qur'an I'm happy to accept that the Qur'an must be the work of man and not God." to "You provided too many contradictions, so I will not accept the method with which you provided them." to "Pick one, and I will prove it does not say what it says it does, and by extension, that all of them are actually not contradictions." You also threw in a little 'if it's a contradiction in English, then that's a human error, as it's not a contradiction in Arabic', which totally ignores that you're then saying that human error can come into play when you're at the same time claiming it can't.

That said, I DO have one that I particularly like, but I'm not willing to play the 'moving the goalposts until I win' game.

Also, if you want to convince the non-religious, you need to use logic. And one thing you need to be aware of is that a conclusion cannot use itself as a reference. What I mean is that you cannot say that the Qu'ran is the truth because Allah created the Qu'ran (which itself comes from the Qu'ran). That is a logical fallacy called a circular reference. Would you accept the same (very common) argument from a Christian, that the Bible is the Truth because it's the Word of God, as explained by the Bible? No, you wouldn't.

To convince the non-believer, you need to convince them logically. That means evidence of creation claims. Evidence of visitation by angels. And yes, that means proving the logical superiority of the ethical system espoused.
 
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The primary nebula or singularity (or cosmic egg as it's sometimes called) contained the root ingredients that would ultimately burst and begin the creation of the universe. Please note that the word universe is a modern word which did not exist 14 centuries ago, hence God uses the words the heavens and the earth to describe the universe.
 

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