Attack on Israel

[Mike Krailo]

It seems the Israeli Bear has been poked to me. It appears to have been the Hamas militant group doing the poking. They were organized enough to cause a lot of damage. I'm guessing, Israel will take Gaza back and it will not be given ever again. They might even take more than Gaza just to show Hamas that their tactic only made it much worse for them and anyone who thought this was going to help their cause. Much worse.

 

[AccessBlaster]

IF it turns out Hamas butchered babies and grandmas, I can't see any right thinking humans supporting them. All casualties will be the responsibility of Hamas going forward.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

IF it turns out Hamas butchered babies and grandmas, I can't see any right thinking humans supporting them. All casualties will be the responsibility of Hamas going forward.

Cannot rationally disagree. I've seen news articles supporting reports of both of those actions having really happened.

This first article comes from Fox News, which some people revile, but its what I've got:

At least 40 babies, some beheaded, found by Israel soldiers in Hamas-attacked village

Israeli soldiers clearing the remains of a village overrun by a surprise attack led by Hamas, a terror group that governs Gaza, discovered dozens of dead babies, some of whom were decapitated.

www.yahoo.com

The headlines on the NY Times (on the Web) for Oct. 10th, 2023, also suggest various atrocities. However, they are on a pay system so if you want to read an article, it might not be free.

The New York Times - Breaking News, US News, World News and Videos

Live news, investigations, opinion, photos and video by the journalists of The New York Times from more than 150 countries around the world. Subscribe for coverage of U.S. and international news, politics, business, technology, science, health, arts, sports and more.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Edgar_]

As if making up stories to justify atrocities had not been done before.
As if most news networks weren't manipulated by a few people with shady interests.

ANY claim, of any nature during war, if it's not backed by irrefutable evidence, it should be considered propaganda, I repeat, specially during war. Who is reporting all these things? Israel? then be suspicious. Don't believe everything you read just because it's on the internet. Or just because it comes from your favorite news reporter. Justifying mass murder is wrong and nobody here has enough evidence about what is going on and the reasons for it.

I've seen these narratives, who knows how many times. I can't believe people swallow it like this. I mean, wow, do you guys really believe everything you read on the internet?

 

[The_Doc_Man]

As if making up stories to justify atrocities had not been done before.
As if most news networks weren't manipulated by a few people with shady interests.

ANY claim, of any nature during war, if it's not backed by irrefutable evidence, it should be considered propaganda, I repeat, specially during war. Who is reporting all these things? Israel? then be suspicious. Don't believe everything you read just because it's on the internet. Or just because it comes from your favorite news reporter. Justifying mass murder is wrong and nobody here has enough evidence about what is going on and the reasons for it.

I've seen these narratives, who knows how many times. I can't believe people swallow it like this. I mean, wow, do you guys really believe everything you read on the internet?

Everything I read? Not always, particularly when single-sourced. But when multi-sourced (as much of this is), then I might be more easily convinced that some of it is real.

 

[Edgar_]

Read the second line of my post. Only in my country, there exists a multitude of news outlets (thousands), with a noteworthy observation being that the majority of these outlets are under the influence and ownership of just nine families, a few of whom even share a common last name. Who's to say they wouldn't come to an agreement among themselves to manipulate public opinion? This is the same, just a different scale.

Not only that, I've seen self-inflicted wounds to justify acts of extreme violence time and again. Who knows what interests are behind these things? News like those should be taken with skepticism. It's too bad, though, unfortunately, by the time the real truth comes out, if it ever does, the harm will have already been done.

 

[ebs17]

Propaganda and manipulation?
Go there yourself and see with your own eyes, maybe you'll believe them.

The deaths are real, and for Israel it's something like nine eleven times ten.

 

[Edgar_]

Propaganda and manipulation?
Go there yourself and see with your own eyes, maybe you'll believe them.

The deaths are real, and for Israel it's something like nine eleven times ten.

The context of my post revolves around the news regarding the babies, not an absence of war. See that? what you're doing is what deceptive media often does: twisting information and taking it out of its real context.

If you don't believe in propaganda and manipulation in times of war, of all times, then I insist, a healthy dose of skepticism is a good choice.

 

[ebs17]

When hand grenades are thrown into civilian shelters, they make no distinction between grown men, grandmothers and babies. What difference do you see there?
Or to put it another way: Are you (as a civilian) worth less than a baby and an assassination less tragic?

 

[Galaxiom]

There can be no peace EVER unless the Muslims are willing to walk away from that part of the Koran.

There can be no peace ever while people continue to worship Abraham's Monster. We should remember that the common founder of Judaism, Christianity and Islam was a madman who was about to murder his son when he had a moment of sense.

 

[Edgar_]

When hand grenades are thrown into civilian shelters, they make no distinction between grown men, grandmothers and babies. What difference do you see there?
Or to put it another way: Are you (as a civilian) worth less than a baby and an assassination less tragic?

The difference is the perception of the public opinion. Technically, all lives count, but compare this:
At least 40 babies, some beheaded, found by Israel soldiers...
with this:
At least 40 Hamas soldiers, some beheaded, found by Israel soldiers...

Can you anticipate which one will infuriate western readers more? (oh and which one will get more view$!)

 

[ebs17]

When it comes to show, you're right.

However, legally speaking, a more differentiated distinction would be made:
The killing and capture of soldiers could be described as war. The killing and kidnapping of civilians is terror.

Beheading is a particularly cruel act in all cases. Anyone who does something like that these days wants special attention in the media.

 

[Jon]

Hamas has been killing indiscriminately. Innocent unarmed young folk at a festival mowed down by blood-thirsty terrorists. If you support and vote for Hamas, are you not just like a mafia boss who orders a hit on their enemy?

For those who want to say it is the same the other way around, well it isn't. Peace loving Israelis do not have a doctrine that involves wiping out the Palestinians. Instead, they have no choice but to act in self defence. It seems that those Palestinian supporters turn a blind eye to the 25,000+ rockets fired without accuracy into Israel over the last 20 years. If the Israelis were doing this into Palestine, those same people would be talking about how evil the Israelis are for that very same act.

Some of you may recall that these forums were hacked and 80,000 posts deleted for the death of a Palestinian leader. All the knowledge and effort from those Access users lost forever. These Palestinian supporters don't care who they target with their wrath. AWF has nothing to do with the Palestinian conflict. And nor do many foreigners killed and kidnapped in Israel.

As for the destruction in Gazza, it was the choice of the Palestinians. They knew what would happen if they did this attack. It is only them who decided their own fate, so don't complain when it happens.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

The difference is the perception of the public opinion. Technically, all lives count, but compare this:
At least 40 babies, some beheaded, found by Israel soldiers...
with this:
At least 40 Hamas soldiers, some beheaded, found by Israel soldiers...

Can you anticipate which one will infuriate western readers more? (oh and which one will get more view$!)

Edgar, your post is not without merit. All lives DO count. However, it is also (sad but) true that actions speak louder than words. At the moment, the actions attributed to Hamas members are reprehensible as an initial action. Israel's retaliation is brutal, but their viewpoint, the brutality started with Hamas. You either don't remember or don't care that over the last many years, an entire year doesn't go by without a Hamas rocket launch into an apartment building. Then the Israelis have to find the perpetrators. If the perps are teen-aged Hamas followers, then yes, Israel would probably be very harsh to those "children." But logic seems to be failing in that region. Futility is defined by some as "repeatedly performing the same act under the same conditions with the same implements in hopes of getting a different result." If Hamas really wanted peace, they would stop using tactics of guerilla warfare and start actual negotiations that actually had a chance of leading to a more persistent cease-fire.

 

[Pat Hartman]

There can be no peace ever while people continue to worship Abraham's Monster. We should remember that the common founder of Judaism, Christianity and Islam was a madman who was about to murder his son when he had a moment of sense.

Except that neither the old nor the new testament tells followers that they have to murder people who refuse to convert or submit. Only the Koran does that. They also murder homosexuals. In theory, Muslims are followers of the old testiment and they acknowledge Jesus Christ as a prophet.

The beheading of enemy combatants looks bad from the outside but it is the literal interpretation of the bible's "eye for an eye" command. I also seem to remember something about desecrating the body keeps them from getting their 72 virgins.

 

[AccessBlaster]

People who use weasel words to justify beheading infants have lost their moral compass.

 

[Pat Hartman]

I'm guessing, Israel will take Gaza back and it will not be given ever again. T

My understanding is that Gaza is "administered" by Israel but there is a civilian government that runs the day to day operations of the territory. I think the Palestinian beef is that Israel is "occupying" Gaza and they want to be "free". Not sure what that really means if they essentially govern themselves. Maybe the Palestinians should elect a government that will work for them rather than just try to hurt Israel. I think the area has some of the best beaches on the Med. They could be a holiday destination for Muslims everywhere if they could put aside their hatred of Israel long enough to try to work to better themselves. They think of themselves as victims and can't break out of that mindset.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

They think of themselves as victims and can't break out of that mindset.

There are folks in the USA with exactly the same mindset. Must be contagious.

 

[Pat Hartman]

It is a worldwide phenomenon. I suffer from it also. I am a victim because I don't have as much money as Elon Musk and I don't look like a supermodel either.

 

[Edgar_]

Not so fast.

I know justice causes outrage for some, but having one-sided views about any geopolitical conflict and, on top of all that, believing everything the ally victim (of some attacks) says is, at least, interesting.