Deep South Deep Freeze (1 Viewer)

[The_Doc_Man]

And Doc, thinking about it, basically, my statement that initially pissed you off so badly was never meant as an ad hominem, regardless of how you took it

OK, Frothy, I'll step away from the curb on that one. I'll tell you (though by now it is obvious) that your comments came across wrong. It ain't like I've never done that kind of thing myself - so I'll give you the pass on it. I'm used to the taste of my foot in my mouth, as the old phrase goes. I'm human, I have to allow you to be equally human.

As to global climate change...

I sincerely doubt we will worry about man-made weather effects in about 10 years. The Pacific "Ring of Fire" seems to be heating up, and an active volcano usually pumps all sorts of bad stuff into the air. Like particulates, sulfur compounds, nitrogen compounds, carbon monoxide, ... and ALL of it very hot. We have not one or two but several hot spots around the Pacific Rim. Global warming indeed!

Then we ALSO have reported issues with the Earth's core gyrating oddly, which many folks believe to presage a polarity reversal on our magnetic field. It has been known to happen before, and according to what I've read, some folks thing we are overdue. It is something with a 100K to 200K year frequency, but the last one was 780K years ago. Also, we apparently had a near flip 40K years ago. That magnetic field reversal messes up our natural cosmic ray shields pretty badly. That effect shows up in fossil records and in other ways, which is how we know about it.

With both the "Ring of Fire" and a "Polarity Flip" in the offing (which may or may not be related - but to me, the odds say they are), we haven't seen ANYTHING yet.

 

[Frothingslosh]

Regarding the Ring of Fire, I would have to compare the current activity and trends against historical data, and to be frank, astrophysics is much more my hobby than geophysics. Climate change is more of a 'holy crap this is bad' sideline. I'll leave that to Galaxiom, as he obviously has rather more time to dig into the minutia than I do.

We are actually LONG overdue for a polarity flip, based on geophysical evidence. (And don't think I don't see the irony of that sentence, considering the previous paragraph.) I haven't read anything significant about a potentially imminent flip (there have been people claiming THAT since it was discovered), but if it happens, that would be quite spectacularly bad for a while. Not so much for the environment as for our electronics and guidance systems.

Just to increase your nervousness a little more, we're also WAAAAAY overdue for another eruption of the Yellowstone Supervolcano, and there are suggestions that THAT is heating up as well.

 

[Vassago]

They've also said that we have a risk of a catastrophic tsunami based on tectonic activity in the Pacific Ocean... One that would swallow up to 100 miles inland on the West Coast of North America.

Some things we can be prepared for, such as the polar shift, as it would likely take a long time to complete once it starts. Others, we don't get much warning for. All we can do is live and hope for the best.

 

[Galaxiom]

We are actually LONG overdue for a polarity flip, based on geophysical evidence.

There is no periodicity evident in geomagnetic reversals. They are statistically random so it cannot be said that one is overdue. The most recent was about a million years ago and sometimes several tens of millions of years can pass without any change.

However there have been recent changes that do make some scientists wonder if one is coming. However it is really just speculation.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Not to argue, G, but I've seen articles that claim a flip frequency of between 100K and 200K years, and the last one was 780K. I have no problem with your statement that they are statistically random - but so is radioactive decay. Yet we can assign a half-life to that process.

I have no idea how the researchers know it, but another article claims that the molten iron in our core is leaving the core's center and moving to other places. If magma movement is making pressure on our tectonic plates, I could imagine that it would account for a ramp-up in volcanic activity. And I would not be surprised if it would also boost odds of the Yellowstone super volcano going bonkers on us. But then, what do I know?

All I can say is that I see and accept a possible causative relationship between our molten core, our magnetic field, and our volcanic activity. If we really did have a massive magma activity event and it is the rotating magma that affects our magnetic field polarity, a spin flip would be a believable consequence.

 

[Galaxiom]

Not to argue, G, but I've seen articles that claim a flip frequency of between 100K and 200K years, and the last one was 780K.

Humans are notorious for seeing patterns that are not really there and many have tried to impose intervals on magnetic reversals. The last couple were in that range but there was also a short one about 40,00 years ago that was all over in about 400 years. The reverse field never built up to normal strength though so it was kind of an aborted flip.

I have no problem with your statement that they are statistically random - but so is radioactive decay. Yet we can assign a half-life to that process.

I am sure you know more about statistics than that. Radioactive decay is a probability and half life is the result of observing a very large sample. We have a sample of one with the Earth.

I have no idea how the researchers know it, but another article claims that the molten iron in our core is leaving the core's center and moving to other places.

Changes in density change the speed of various types of waves generated in Earthquakes. The arrival times at the multitude of sensors around the planet can be used to image the internals.

If magma movement is making pressure on our tectonic plates, I could imagine that it would account for a ramp-up in volcanic activity. And I would not be surprised if it would also boost odds of the Yellowstone super volcano going bonkers on us. But then, what do I know?

Convective movements of magma are what drives plate tectonics. Interestingly models show that we wouldn't have this if it were not for being started by a massive impact, probably the formation of the Moon.
Without plate tectonics there would be no cycles to bring nutrients back to the surface. The requirements for life would all end up on the bottom of the oceans.

 

[Galaxiom]

I sincerely doubt we will worry about man-made weather effects in about 10 years.

I predict quite the opposite. Deniers will move on to denying that they were ever part of the problem.

The Pacific "Ring of Fire" seems to be heating up, and an active volcano usually pumps all sorts of bad stuff into the air. Like particulates, sulfur compounds, nitrogen compounds, carbon monoxide, ... and ALL of it very hot.

Volcanic emissions reduce the global temperature by blocking some of the incoming radiation.

And you claim to be able to evaluate the science of Climate Change?

 

[Frothingslosh]

And you claim to be able to evaluate the science of Climate Change?

Oh, here we go again.

 

[Mike375]

I have a question on batteries. I think I posted similar before but no real answer but perhaps someone on this thread will have the answer.

Firstly as a qualifying note I know liquid oxygen is a little more then pounds per imperial gallon and petrol is about 8 pounds but they are close enough for this question to use gallons/volume for both.

I am under the impression that a battery is completely self contained, that is, it will operate the same in a vacuum or in an inert gas.

With petrol our mixture is about 15 parts air to 1 part petrol by weight and so 3 to 1 with pure oxygen.

Let's say our car gets 20 miles per imperial gallon. However, if our car carried liquid oxygen and assume the engine is tuned to the same horsepower as it gets with air/petrol then if we have 5 gallons of petrol we will have 15 gallons of liquid oxygen. That will give us a range of 100 miles as opposed to 400 miles if we have 20 gallons of petrol and get the oxygen "free" from the atmosphere.

Does the battery have the same limitations of range as the liquid oxygen/petrol car.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Batteries exist that can give a small car a range comparable to a gas-tank vehicle, most in the metal hydride family but there are others. The problem with batteries is that we are kicking that can down the road (yet again) because when the battery becomes degraded enough to no longer accept a recharge, the disposal issues become horrendous.

And you claim to be able to evaluate the science of Climate Change

I claim to be able to recognize poorly researched, poorly written, and poorly based articles that reach conclusions based on data with an extremely poor signal/noise ratio.

I am aware that volcanic emissions provide the basis for an albedo change that can actually trigger cooling. Which is why I also question the man-as-a-villain articles. The level of volcanic activity is yet another factor in the climate as a whole.

My comments about half-life might have been an off-the-cuff analogy. The point is that we can study random-based events and still make predictions that are useful. If you don't like "half-life" statistics, I understand and admit to a quick/poor choice of analogy. However,

We have a sample of one with the Earth.

One Earth but many spin flips. If there were enough in the past for the authors of the article I read to provide an average and to enumerate cases of "failed" flips, there is a basis for someone to say that we are overdue.

 

[Mike375]

Batteries exist that can give a small car a range comparable to a gas-tank vehicle, most in the metal hydride family but there are others. The problem with batteries is that we are kicking that can down the road (yet again) because when the battery becomes degraded enough to no longer accept a recharge, the disposal issues become horrendous.

I don't have the figures handy but from memory the Kw power of the Tesla and the Kw/Hrs of the batteries would suggest range would be short with flat out driving like on a race track.

I think Formula E are low power engines and they change cars at the halfway point of the race.

A mate of mine in Australia is a drag racer and he had a drive of the top Tesla. He said it was very quick although not as quick as his road car which is a Chevelle and does a 9.3 second/135 mph. He said the thing about the Tesla was the complete lack of character although of course that is compared to his Chevelle which is hardly the average road car.

Imagine electric Sprint Cars or Indy 500 cars .... I don't think much future for that stuff.

 

[kevlray]

For the Indy 500, they would either need quick change batteries like having a fuel stop. Or have coils in the roadbed, so that it could get a charge (not a big one) every lap.

 

[Mike375]

For the Indy 500, they would either need quick change batteries like having a fuel stop. Or have coils in the roadbed, so that it could get a charge (not a big one) every lap.

I was thinking more about lack of noise and smell which is why I included Sprint Cars.

Have Indy cars now switched from methanol to ethanol?

I think the speedway and drag races might now be the only racing where the races are not a fuel economy and tyres saving run. F1 is also an engine saving race and I think for 2018 there are penalties if the engine is changed for 3 races or less.

What a nanny state the world has become.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

My brother-in-law watches the raceway sports a lot. To him, if the engines don't growl at you or roar like lions, it ain't sports. It's just kiddy cars at the amusement park. He is known to watch for the morbid curiosity associated with pile-ups.

 

[Galaxiom]

F1 is also an engine saving race and I think for 2018 there are penalties if the engine is changed for 3 races or less.

What a nanny state the world has become.

Honda is one of the main F1 engine manufacturers. They threatened to pull out if F1 didn't become more commercially relevant to them. That drove the change in the rules.

 

[Mike375]

Honda is one of the main F1 engine manufacturers. They threatened to pull out if F1 didn't become more commercially relevant to them. That drove the change in the rules.

That is the case with most F1 rules and hybrid engines etc. Ditto for the endurance sports cars.

However, the bottom line is car racing is simply not what it once was.

I have cancelled my Foxtel as I had it for F1 and V8 Supercars but I am over and out. The last straw for me was getting rid of the grid girls.

 

[Galaxiom]

I have cancelled my Foxtel as I had it for F1 and V8 Supercars but I am over and out.

I am a minimalist and prefer less wheels.

Moto GP is true motor racing. Just an engine and the practical minimum to make it stay on the road. Over 340 kph on the straights and leaning in to corners at 60 degrees with most of their body hanging off virtually on the road. Those guys really have balls. (Apologies to Maria Herrera of course.

Similarly dragster racing. It is really only two wheels. The little ones at the front are just to give the driver the illusion they have some control of the beast. (And you all thought I was a dyed in the wool greenie.)

For myself I prefer one wheel without a motor. In true minimalist ambition I am still trying to ride an Ultimate Wheel (a unicycle without a frame or seat).

 

[Mike375]

The blokes with big balls are the Isle of Man racers.

The old Sydney Showground in the 60s was very gladiatorial, especially the speedcars.

 

[Galaxiom]

The old Sydney Showground in the 60s was very gladiatorial, especially the speedcars.

My wife used to love the speedway there as a kid.

Her father used to build and ride outfits in Sydney with her brother as the swinger in the 60s and 70s.

We still have a centrefold from an old Two Wheels (?) magazine with her brother horizontal, shoulder to the road, swinging for a well known rider of the day.

 

[Mike375]

Being the swinger was definitely life challenging.

Two of my favourite sounding engines were the 1000 cc Vincent V Twins used in the outfits and a Sprint Car at idle with no muffler.

The Showground was about the biggest sporting event in Sydney of a weekend in summer and especially when the American speedcar drivers came out like Bob Tatersall and the Offenhausers.