Great news for me

[AccessBlaster]

The whole case is based on shaky logic and will be overturned when the adults get involved.

 

[Jon]

At the end of the day, isn't Trumps own valuations irrelevant in the scheme of things? The contract itself says not to trust his valuations, and banks don't trust client valuations anyway and do their own due dilligence. There is no there there, whatever that expression means!

It just seems like the Democrats want to make up a crime out of nothing, anything to stop Trump being re=elected as president again. The banks made a fortune from giving Trump loans. There was no victim here. Well, there is. Donald Trump!

 

[AccessBlaster]

There was no victim here. Well, there is. Donald Trump!

 

[Pat Hartman]

What about the part where he devalued the property for tax purposes.

Values do change over time, you know. How about all those people who lost their property in 2010 because they were underwater on their mortgage and so the banks wouldn't refinance unless they came up with the difference in cash to bring their equity up to what the bank wanted? Was the property still worth what they paid for it for tax purposes????? I know in my town, it took years for the town assessor to catch up to the market. Why? They didn't want to reduce their income so they OVERVALUED my property in order to ding me for higher taxes. Was that fair? Why can't I sue the town for charging me too much property tax???

Maybe not at that level.

Well, I guess if your name is Biden or Clinton or Obama, you get to tell the town's assessor what you think they should assess your property at. Do you actually think that the evil orange man could tell a town clerk what value to set on his property for tax purposes? Typically assessed values for real property run about 80% of retail values and they do that because, the towns rarely have the resources to reevaluate property values every year and they don't want to antagonize the local taxpayers so much that they revolt. So, they set the mil rate higher than they need to so they can set the assessed value low enough so it stays below real value for a couple of years and we all pretend that makes sense.

You are correct, in fact, I can include the 2 acre retention pone across the street, which I could also sub divide.

No, you can't. That would be illegal. If the pond were on your property, you could include it in the value of your plot because it is an "asset".

I can get Mexico to pay for the wall

Mexico did pay for the wall. You just don't understand that the payment was never going to come in the form of a check. It came in the form of the cancelation of Nafta and the creation of a new treaty that gave the US much more favorable trade terms than we used to have. PLUS, he got Mexico to use its own military to stop the flow of illegals crossing into Mexico from the south. So we stopped importing the poor and uneducated people from Mexico by closing the border which saved us billions in welfare.

I'm trying to figure out what world you live in. You take Trump literally when it suits your negative view of him and you don't when it doesn't. OK, it's a method although somewhat hypocritical but you are entitled to your opinions.

I think Trump's tactic with Mexico and the countries of Central America was masterful. He got Mexico to guard our southern border for us and he got everyone who was sending us their poor and uneducated to suck on the teat of our welfare system to take their citizens back when we expelled them or we would stop their foreign aid. We all know that the foreign aid goes directly into the pockets of the despots who rule these poor countries so it means a lot to them if we cut off their aid.

 

[Pat Hartman]

There is no there there, whatever that expression means!

That is a reference to Clinton's answer when he was being questioned during the Lewinsky affair (or maybe one of his other affairs). It went something like"

"It depends on your meaning of the word there".

 

[jpl458]

At the end of the day, isn't Trumps own valuations irrelevant in the scheme of things? The contract itself says not to trust his valuations, and banks don't trust client valuations anyway and do their own due dilligence. There is no there there, whatever that expression means!

It just seems like the Democrats want to make up a crime out of nothing, anything to stop Trump being re=elected as president again. The banks made a fortune from giving Trump loans. There was no victim here. Well, there is. Donald Trump!

I worked, briefly, in commercial real estate, and I can tell you that it does not operate like residential real estate. A lot of game playing goes in the commercial world. I just ask, why 2 different values, one for loans then another for taxes. Wish I could do that with my house. What Trump was involved in is very convoluted and open to fraud. But as far as Trump is concerned, I am rooting for the 14th amendment.

 

[Pat Hartman]

What Trump was involved in is very convoluted and open to fraud.

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it but that doesn't make it reality.

I am also familiar with the ins and outs of investment real estate. It is not valued the same way that residential RE is valued. It is valued on what it can generate for income. And the banks ask for audited P&L statements BEFORE they'll lend you a dime. So, you can "say" whatever you want to say the property is worth. Just go look at a listing for a 300 unit apartment building. They'll give you an actual CAP rate, NOI, and CoC return and they'll give you a ProForma CAP, NOI, and CoC. They want you to purchase based on the ProForma numbers but they're just pie in the sky. No investor who knows anything about anything pays "ProForma" prices. They purchase based on AUDITED "Actuals" and that is EXACTLY what the banks lend on. No bank was injured in any dealings with Trump. The only reason that the prosecutor was able to bring this case at all is because the average person has no clue what the above paragraph is talking about and if you are willing to believe that Trump is the evil orange man then you are willing to believe that he could have actually cheated some bank. It just didn't happen and you won't find a banker to testify that it did or the Prosecutor would not have had to resort to putting Ivanka on as a "prosecution" witness to end her "case". That just shows how hopeless her case actually is.

Here's a recent ProForma. They don't show you the actuals. You have to contact them directly to get them and frequently show a proof of funds so they know you're not just window shopping.

 

[jpl458]

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it but that doesn't make it reality.

I am also familiar with the ins and outs of investment real estate. It is not valued the same way that residential RE is valued. It is valued on what it can generate for income. And the banks ask for audited P&L statements BEFORE they'll lend you a dime. So, you can "say" whatever you want to say the property is worth. Just go look at a listing for a 300 unit apartment building. They'll give you an actual CAP rate, NOI, and CoC return and they'll give you a ProForma CAP, NOI, and CoC. They want you to purchase based on the ProForma numbers but they're just pie in the sky. No investor who knows anything about anything pays "ProForma" prices. They purchase based on AUDITED "Actuals" and that is EXACTLY what the banks lend on. No bank was injured in any dealings with Trump. The only reason that the prosecutor was able to bring this case at all is because the average person has no clue what the above paragraph is talking about and if you are willing to believe that Trump is the evil orange man then you are willing to believe that he could have actually cheated some bank. It just didn't happen and you won't find a banker to testify that it did or the Prosecutor would not have had to resort to putting Ivanka on as a "prosecution" witness to end her "case". That just shows how hopeless her case actually is.

Here's a recent ProForma. They don't show you the actuals. You have to contact them directly to get them and frequently show a proof of funds so they know you're not just window shopping.
View attachment 110872

Why then did he fudge the size of his condo? for what reason?

 

[moke123]

It just didn't happen and you won't find a banker to testify that it did

what about all the bankers that did testify?

Trump’s “statements of financial condition” were key to his approval for a $125 million loan in 2011 for his golf resort in Doral, Florida, and a $107 million loan in 2012 for his Chicago hotel and condo skyscraper, former Deutsche Bank risk management officer Nicholas Haigh testified.

You seem to keep comparing this to regular bank practices. trump was dealing with the private wealth division. The commercial R.E. division denied him loans. Kushner hooked him up with the private wealth people. Their loans are based on your wealth and that's why the fraudulent statements of financial condition are at issue.

That is a reference to Clinton's answer when he was being questioned

Clinton said ... your meaning of the word "is"
There there is from a 1930's book.

 

[Pat Hartman]

What condo? How much was he off? Why would you even care? You are just looking for any justification you can find to "prove" that he cheated about something.

Sometimes I say my condo is 1800 sq ft. But, in reality it is only 1777. Am I lying? Is that evil? But, if you count the way some real estate agents count, it is actually 3000 because I have a full bathroom, 2 bedrooms, and a lot of other finished space on the lower level in addition to a storage room the size of a two-car garage. The biggest condo development in my town is all 1-level units between 1400 and 1600 sq ft. BUT, they all have a garage and laundry room in the basement and some have a bathroom as well as other finished space. Even though the town doesn't count below grade finished space as finished space, no condo listed in that development is ever listed at 1400 sq ft. They are all a minimum of 2000 sq ft when they are listed for sale. Are they lying? I think so. My unit is true 1-floor living because my garage is at grade level and not in my basement and I have an actual laundry room also on grade level. So, the other complex is 55+ but no old person can live there unless they can carry their groceries up the stairs and their garbage down (garbage is collected at the garage level) because they don't have upper level parking. And they have to carry their laundry both ways unless they want to give up a precious closet for a stackable unit. Mine are side by side with folding space and I don't even have to lie about the convenience of living in my complex. In my town there are 900 condo units where the owners ALWAYS LIE about the size of their unit and they also imply that because the kitchen and one or two bedrooms are on the same level that those units are one-floor living but they are not.

Should we charge those 900 owners plus the RE agents that represent them with a crime because they always lie about the square footage? I say OFF WITH THEIR HEADS. They lie about their square footage!!!!!

 

[Pat Hartman]

You seem to keep comparing this to regular bank practices. trump was dealing with the private wealth division. The commercial R.E. division denied him loans. Kushner hooked him up with the private wealth people. Their loans are based on your wealth and that's why the fraudulent statements of financial condition are at issue.

Do you actually think that they didn't do their own due diligence? Were any of them harmed? I'm surprised that they weren't fired as soon as they testified that they ignored their fiduciary responsibility to their investors. Who would actually have been harmed if Trump had defaulted? The investors who trusted those "private wealth people" to protect them. You could bet your sweet bippy that if I found out that the people who were responsible for looking out for my best interests were loaning money to ANYONE without verifying his financial statements, I'd be suing them. Did anyone testify that they never checked Trump's statements or did they just say they believed his statements? This sound more like a case of what wasn't asked/said rather than what was. Hopefully, Trump's lawyers will correct this omission.

Clinton said ... your meaning of the word "is"
There there is from a 1930's book.

Thanks for correcting my misquote from Clinton. I knew he said something stupid. I just didn't remember it correctly.

 

[jpl458]

what about all the bankers that did testify?



You seem to keep comparing this to regular bank practices. trump was dealing with the private wealth division. The commercial R.E. division denied him loans. Kushner hooked him up with the private wealth people. Their loans are based on your wealth and that's why the fraudulent statements of financial condition are at issue.


Clinton said ... your meaning of the word "is"
There there is from a 1930's book.

Buy the way, I played competitive golf most of my life, and played Doral at least 7 times, before Trump bought it, After his acquisition he thought he was the next great course designer. Friends of mine that played it after Trump bought it said that he ruined the Blue Course, which was the most famous of the 5 courses. Tour pros have said the same thing. But there is the best course in the world in Scotland, that has a junk yard in the middle, and wind mills along the coast. And is loosing money.

 

[moke123]

How much was he off?

A little over 20,000 sq. ft. That's about 11 or 12 times your place.

I'm surprised that they weren't fired

Actually trump's personal banker from the wealth division was banned from the industry in 2020 for breaking some kind of rules.

Were any of them harmed?

Aren't you answering your own question?

The investors who trusted those "private wealth people" to protect them.

Do you actually think that they didn't do their own due diligence?

Haigh said he reviewed Trump’s financial statements before approving the loans and, at the time, had no reason to doubt their validity.

 

[jpl458]

Buy the way, I played competitive golf most of my life, and played Doral at least 7 times, before Trump bought it, After his acquisition he thought he was the next great course designer. Friends of mine that played it after Trump bought it said that he ruined the Blue Course, which was the most famous of the 5 courses. Tour pros have said the same thing. But there is the best course in the world in Scotland, that has a junk yard in the middle, and wind mills along the coast. And is loosing money.

I just want to add: Donald Trump's golf courses reported more than $4 million in losses for 2021. Donald Trump was a staunch supporter of Brexit. But his Scottish golf resorts is where he draws the line. The former president's U.K.-based golfing havens have lost more than $5 million in the last financial year.Feb 3, 2023. That's because he is such a shrewd business man..

 

[moke123]

Buy the way, I played competitive golf most of my life, and played Doral at least 7 times, before Trump bought it, After his acquisition he thought he was the next great course designer. Friends of mine that played it after Trump bought it said that he ruined the Blue Course, which was the most famous of the 5 courses. Tour pros have said the same thing. But there is the best course in the world in Scotland, that has a junk yard in the middle, and wind mills along the coast. And is loosing money.

Nicest course I ever played was a private club in N.J. that I cant even remember the name of (if I ever knew it.) There were only 26 members. There were so many deer on the course it felt like target practice. Not to mention that we played 18 that morning at the other course he belonged to before playing 18 on the exclusive course that afternoon.

 

[AccessBlaster]

 

[jpl458]

Nicest course I ever played was a private club in N.J. that I cant even remember the name of (if I ever knew it.) There were only 26 members. There were so many deer on the course it felt like target practice. Not to mention that we played 18 that morning at the other course he belonged to before playing 18 on the exclusive course that afternoon.

The "Best" course I ever played was Crystal Downs in upper Michigan. It's a little known Alistair McKenzie design. Got to play it only twice. The hardest course I ever played was Sawgrass when the wind was up. When you were in the fairway, calculating the ballistics problem, you would trying for figure out which bunker you wanted to be in because the greens turned to concrete by 11 AM. Played Pebble Beach more than a dozen times. 7, 8, 9, and 10 are treacherous. 18th at Rivera always ate me alive.

 

[moke123]

View attachment 110875

well duh, he's been grifting up a storm off his cult.

 

[jpl458]

well duh, he's been grifting up a storm off his cult.

Tell it like it is, Moke.

 

[moke123]

I play Sawgrass and Pebble beach all the time. (Vr golf) Plus wolf's creek, yale, valhalla, pinehurst, kiawah, scottsdale, east lake and more.

Just found out I'll be playing St. Andrews tommorrow!

I've been waiting months for this course to drop.