Gun laws do they work

[Frothingslosh]

I agree Frothingslosh, I think it would come down to common sense more than anything - Why keep a loaded gun in the same vehicle as a child? - No doubt he forgot that it was in there and the toddler found it.

Why it was kept loaded was a different matter entirely - (I would only keep it loaded if I was ready to shoot on command.) Keeping it unloaded gives you that split second to think about your actions.

To be fair, the counter-point is that keeping it unloaded could cost your life in an emergency.

As an example, about 15 years ago, while leaving a friend's store after closing for him, two men parked me in, bashed in my driver's-side window with a bat, stole my wallet and car and beat me within an inch of my life. While I didn't have a gun in my car, if I had, loaded vs unloaded would have quite literally determined whether or not I took that trip to the hospital - I had time to pull a loaded weapon, but not to pull a weapon and then load it.

Then there was the time my dad bluffed down a thug who had a knife drawn by pulling the 9mm my mom had just brought to him and hiding the fact that it was both unloaded and had the trigger guard in place. (When a gun is touching your nose, you don't usually pay attention to things like that.) Had it escalated again - he had thrown the thug out of the location 30 minutes earlier - he'd have been screwed. As it was, the guy backed down and left.

So yeah, I do get why people leave their weapons loaded in the car, even if I think it's a bad idea overall.

 

[ConnorGiles]

You're not wrong, As you say It could be the difference.

But by literally keeping the ammo cartridge separate from a pistol (be it 4 inches away to a different drawer entirely) could have saved that kids life.

As you say in most situations a loaded pistol would be the best option. But as your father did, Pulling a (Unknowingly) unloaded pistol is just as intimidating.

But I definitely see your point Frothingslosh. Would you say it depends on the situation?

 

[Frothingslosh]

I would say that more times than not, keeping it separate is the right call. However, there will always be incidents where keeping it loaded would have been the right call. I would in general err on the side of caution, however, and recommend that the gun never be stored loaded, even despite those incidents I related. So yeah, it's definitely situational.

Personally I feel it's something of a silly law to make simply because it's completly a secondary violation. By the time a cop discovers that the pistol in your glove box is loaded, you're already in a world of trouble.

 

[ConnorGiles]

I teeny bit off topic - Have you ever wondered what America would be like without guns? (armed police as an exception)?

Just wondered if guns are a major part of life over the pond

 

[Bladerunner]

I would add a small piece here. I have grandchildren and they at early ages have and do shoot guns. They know what a gun will do and how it works. They also know not to touch them unsupervised. That said, if my weapon is not on or in complete control of myself it is not accessible to my grandchildren or anyone else. Those accidents where the baby (toddler) reached in the handbag and pulled the trigger of a gun, killing the mother is tragic but this type scenario will be around as long as people feel they are no longer safe and have to carry a weapon for protection. of themselves and their loved ones.

I know there are those of you who will say that no one is safe but these people may live in areas where protection from life and death, if it comes around, would be 20-30 minutes away. There are thousands of different scenarios here but the main question still stands. Do you feel you are not safe? A huge number of people (it is rising) in America feels they are no longer safe as they were and are taking to steps to be self-reliant.

 

[Bladerunner]

I teeny bit off topic - Have you ever wondered what America would be like without guns? (armed police as an exception)?

Just wondered if guns are a major part of life over the pond

if you like to hunt, reload, target practice and/or shoot in tournaments, YES

If not then NO!

 

[Frothingslosh]

I teeny bit off topic - Have you ever wondered what America would be like without guns? (armed police as an exception)?

Just wondered if guns are a major part of life over the pond

Without guns? I'm pretty sure there would be a whole lot fewer non-Native Americans living here.

 

[Frothingslosh]

Seriously, though, most of America would change little if at all. Most Americans really aren't the gun-toting hicks wrapped in flags that you see so often on TV.

The folks most affected would be, as Blade pointed out, the collectors and the hunters. The other big group would be the gangs, especially in the big cities. I'd guess the violence would be toned back if you could actually take their guns away, but for all I know stabbings would simply skyrocket. (Also, they typically already use either illegal (fully auto) or stolen guns, so gun control laws really don't stop them much.)

 

[ConnorGiles]

As it stands Blade, we live in a world that seems to be getting worse day by day.

If anyone says they are safe walking outside their front door, be it here in the UK or any other place - then they simply do not see the dangers of life around them.

Criminals here in the UK have access to firearms where citizens such as myself have no form of protection.

 

[Frothingslosh]

As it stands Blade, we live in a world that seems to be getting worse day by day.

Honestly, a lot of that is actually illusion caused by the 24-hour news cycle. The world has always been a dangerous place, crime has always been rampant, and people have always been fighting. The difference is that whereas even 15 years ago, news took time to get around the world, and limited resources meant news organizations had to pick and choose what to report.

Now we have 24 hour news, networking, and social media, which allows every last little thing to hit the web immediately and be distributed worldwide. It's complete information overload, and the news organizations are businesses - they need to report the news most people find most interesting. That's why they're so big to report every bad thing that happens, be it a holdup at the mom-and-pop store down the road or 12 French cartoonists being attacked and executed. They don't focus on new drug research, peace talks, space exploration, and various successes anywhere near as much because people simply don't tune in.

In reality, it's REALLY hard to determine if the world is getting worse or whether we're just hearing more of the bad news that was already happening.

 

[ConnorGiles]

Very true Frothingslosh,

I would argue that (I was not around in these times) say 30 years ago, Children were let out to play without thought of dangers on the most part.

Whereas today now we know what is out there, Things have changed dramatically for a parent. Quickly wrap the children in bubble wrap and safety gear!!!

Would you say the world was a maybe slightly or maybe much better place 30 years ago then it is today? (minus the terrorist outbreaks and wars)

 

[Frothingslosh]

It's so hard to say. In some places, life is better than ever. In others, life has gone from prosperity to hell. Worldwide, I would say that it's probably better overall if simply because the USA and USSR are no longer ready to destroy the world if either so much as twitches.

It's a REALLY close call, though.

 

[Brianwarnock]

If anyone says they are safe walking outside their front door, be it here in the UK or any other place - then they simply do not see the dangers of life around them.

Bullshit, at least 3 times a week I walk home from one or other of my daughters between 10 pm and midnight, sure it's not fora 10 to 15 mins, but it is outside my front door.

Brian

 

[Frothingslosh]

Bullshit, at least 3 times a week I walk home from one or other of my daughters between 10 pm and midnight, sure it's not fora 10 to 15 mins, but it is outside my front door.

Brian

Yeah, I totally forgot about that comment.

There are all sorts of places where you're what most people would call safe. Hell, I live in one of the most dangerous cities in America, and I don't worry at all about walking outside my apartment building.

If you're reading as 100% guaranteed perfect safety, Connor, then it doesn't and has never existed. If nothing else, you could be killed by a meteor tomorrow.

 

[Brianwarnock]

Would you say the world was a maybe slightly or maybe much better place 30 years ago then it is today? (minus the terrorist outbreaks and wars)

It depends on your definition of better, ie what is important to you. Plus it will probably depend where you stand regarding social status and wealth although 30 years may not have seen too much of a change for most.

Brian

 

[Dick7Access]

It depends on your definition of better, ie what is important to you. Plus it will probably depend where you stand regarding social status and wealth although 30 years may not have seen too much of a change for most.

Brian

Brian,
Read this very slowly. I don't want you to have a heart attack. I agree with you 100%. I know, I know I find it hard to believe myself.
What I can add to that post, is that, also there is more information available than there was 30 years ago, so some things seem far worst, as we didn't hear about them 30 years ago. I had a proffessor in college that his favorite quote was, it depends who's ox is being gored.

 

[Bladerunner]

Very true Frothingslosh,

I would argue that (I was not around in these times) say 30 years ago, Children were let out to play without thought of dangers on the most part.

Whereas today now we know what is out there, Things have changed dramatically for a parent. Quickly wrap the children in bubble wrap and safety gear!!!

Would you say the world was a maybe slightly or maybe much better place 30 years ago then it is today? (minus the terrorist outbreaks and wars)

ConnorGiles the further you go back the more innocent it was. I remember when I was a kid, we did not lock our doors. Crime was taken seriously. Everybody took care of everybody. The kids could play on the streets without the slightest worry of kidnapping and if the man down the road saw me doing something wrong, he told my father who straightened me out forthwith. It was just a simpler time.

There two big things that I see today vs 30 or more years ago are:
1. Everything back then was slow, methodical and deliberate. Everything today should have happened yesterday.
2. Hpwever, the biggest change from 30 years ago is: Good ol' mother earth was a lot bigger back then than it is today with invention of the internet and the smart phone.

As far as better off, I would say most families are better off. I can rem when there was no TV, no HVAC, the phones were on a party line or had to go through a operator for connection, no running water, no bathrooms except and outhouse. My grandfather house had one light bulb in it and they boiled water on the stove.

There is no doubt the poorest of the poor is still better off with a bunch of gadgets including large TV, boom boxes. etc. Everybody has a cell phone., most everybody has a car. and up until the housing bubble fell many people who could not afford a house lived under a newly purchased 30 yr. mortgage.

Yes, things have changed but has it changed for the better? In the opinion of this ole' goat, YES

 

[ConnorGiles]

It's so hard to say. In some places, life is better than ever. In others, life has gone from prosperity to hell. Worldwide, I would say that it's probably better overall if simply because the USA and USSR are no longer ready to destroy the world if either so much as twitches.

It's a REALLY close call, though.

Lets just hope we don't have any war hungry presidents/prime ministers any time soon.

Once one button is pushed, they all will be.

 

[ConnorGiles]

Bullshit, at least 3 times a week I walk home from one or other of my daughters between 10 pm and midnight, sure it's not fora 10 to 15 mins, but it is outside my front door.

Brian

First of all, Brian and Frothing you are both misinterpreting my comment.

If you think you are safe walking out your front door and nothing can happen to you at all. (you could walk out of your door and a car could lose control and run you over.) get my point? The dangers of life are all around us and we do not see them because we have lived with them for numerous years. But that doesn't stop them being there.

If you're reading as 100% guaranteed perfect safety, Connor, then it doesn't and has never existed. If nothing else, you could be killed by a meteor tomorrow.

That is exactly what I meant. Brian just needs to question before he assumes.

 

[Brianwarnock]

Connor I have decided to ignore you in future, you have come onto this forum and not only think you should control it by telling others what they can and cannot post, but also twist your arguments, in the context of your original post and this thread my statement was correct.
you were not talking about accidents


Brian