Gun laws do they work

[Bladerunner]

Originally Posted by Dick7Access View Post Quote:
Your right, but I see it has a cultural problem, not a weapons problem. I know of cases where a person gets in a traffic problem and issues an obscene jester and the other person says I’ll show him and takes his gun out and blows him away. I don’t get upset with things like obscene jester, but jerks do. They probable not satisfied with their life and have to make them self feel important./ Quote

/

And I think those are the people who should be deprived of the weapons in the first place. If you want a weapon that badly then I would believe making the process in obtaining one be a long and patient one. Then I do believe only the people who have been checked out and approved will obtain one (legally of course)

Hello Mr. Connor: hope this finds you well today. I have quoted D7A and you from you last post and I don't understand. It seems that you people want 'Gun Control' via background checks and most states here have that. In fact, the areas where most assaults with guns take place are those areas that have the harshest guns laws in the nation.

Make up you mind because you keep harping on it while saying yeah, you can own a gun if you can pass a background check but if not well you cannot own one. These people who are doing all of this shooting have guns illegally bought.. I bet there were no background checks either...Make up your minds

 

[ConnorGiles]

Hello Mr. Connor: hope this finds you well today. I have quoted D7A and you from you last post and I don't understand. It seems that you people want 'Gun Control' via background checks and most states here have that. In fact, the areas where most assaults with guns take place are those areas that have the harshest guns laws in the nation.

Not just background checks though Bladerunner, Also mentality checks, Huge wait times and regular checks for each person that owns one. This would then separate the responsible from the irresponsible and reduce the risk to the public.

Make up you mind because you keep harping on it while saying yeah, you can own a gun if you can pass a background check but if not well you cannot own one. These people who are doing all of this shooting have guns illegally bought.. I bet there were no background checks either...Make up your minds

Not necessarily true Blade, The annual death rate of americans per 100,000 via guns in 2011 was 10.8 - averaging around 292/293 people a year dying via gun deaths

Source : http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states

(This site isn't the only site I have checked)

Now 293 people a year, I refuse to believe 99% of those deaths are at the hands of illegal guns. - Accidental gun deaths are more often then not commited via a Legal gun owner.

But yet again Blade, I cannot stress this point enough. It's not about how many people die each year via accidental gun deaths or irresponsible gun owners leaving guns lying around and how little the percentage is.

It's that it happens and that it shouldn't.

That's what gun control is about and something (In my opinion) needs to change for this to happen.

Twiddling thumbs and waiting doesn't seem to work.

 

[ConnorGiles]

good evening Vassago: Gun Control is associated with taking away or limiting Guns in such a way as to render them useless to the owner for anything else than target practice and tournament shooting.

I think you have a very poisoned view on Gun Control Blade.

It's about being safe with guns. Not taking them away or limiting.

 

[Bladerunner]

Not just background checks though Bladerunner, Also mentality checks, Huge wait times and regular checks for each person that owns one. This would then separate the responsible from the irresponsible and reduce the risk to the public.

Not necessarily true Blade, The annual death rate of americans per 100,000 via guns in 2011 was 10.8 - averaging around 292/293 people a year dying via gun deaths
Source : http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states
(This site isn't the only site I have checked)
Now 293 people a year, I refuse to believe 99% of those deaths are at the hands of illegal guns. - Accidental gun deaths are more often then not committed via a Legal gun owner.
But yet again Blade, I cannot stress this point enough. It's not about how many people die each year via accidental gun deaths or irresponsible gun owners leaving guns lying around and how little the percentage is.
It's that it happens and that it shouldn't.
That's what gun control is about and something (In my opinion) needs to change for this to happen.
Twiddling thumbs and waiting doesn't seem to work.

I am taking it that the 293 are all accidental because Chicago has more deaths than that per year!?

So I am to understand that we need to have a waiting period. OK, WHy---to cool off when mad.....Already have that in most states. We need to see a Shrink! before we buy a gun? Really, a Psch? attached to the government..talk about letting the fox in the hen house. Hey according to some here, I am crazy simple because of my beliefs in certain categories. We now have an administration that is illegally making laws. Whats to stop them from saying no, you are just not ready to own a gun. Is this what they did in the UK? Something happened? You all to turn your guns in like sheep to slaughter? It is written (somewhere) and I paraphrase 'those who give up liberties for security have neither'. I believe I will take care of my own security and keep my liberties. Thanks you.

All firearm deaths in the USA 2011
Number of deaths: 32,351
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.4 (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm)

Yet you are only worried about those that are accidental? 239 out of 32,351. Wow?

It seems to me that you are going about gun control in a way as to make the bar SOOOOOoooo high that eventually none can reach it. Chicago and some other sities already have this high bar and look where they are at.

 

[ConnorGiles]

I am taking it that the 293 are all accidental because Chicago has more deaths than that per year!?

Woops, maths is way off here from me. Don't know why I didnt take not of the number above. - Actual deaths via guns that year was : 32,163

So I am to understand that we need to have a waiting period. OK, WHy---to cool off when mad.....Already have that in most states.

You asked why but answered your own question, The waiting time would simply show determination to get that weapon, Which would be followed by questions every so often to make sure they have no bad intentions and that is when the mentality check would come into play. This should happen for every gun a person owns. So people don't just go stark crazy and go and buy them all in one sitting. You can have them, But you will have to wait and you will be checked thoroughly. I don't think that is such a bad idea.

We need to see a Shrink! before we buy a gun? Really, a Psch? attached to the government..talk about letting the fox in the hen house. Hey according to some here, I am crazy simple because of my beliefs in certain categories. We now have an administration that is illegally making laws. Whats to stop them from saying no, you are just not ready to own a gun.

If a psychologist tells you that you aren't stable to have a weapon. Then this must be justified because people who are just over the mark of insanity get passed for being sane. Beliefs are a slight benefactor here due to your beliefs may cause you to take action and cause harm to other people who go against them.

Is this what they did in the UK? Something happened? You all to turn your guns in like sheep to slaughter? It is written (somewhere) and I paraphrase 'those who give up liberties for security have neither'. I believe I will take care of my own security and keep my liberties. Thanks you.

I believe somewhere that after Dunblane shootings people willingly gave up their guns, because they believed without guns - shootings would happen a lot less (which is what happened, there are a lot less shootings now). You see Blade you are hell bent on believing we are trying to remove your weapons. WE AREN'T! Gun Control is just a way of saying BE MORE CAREFUL!

All firearm deaths in the USA 2011
Number of deaths: 32,351
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.4 (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm)

Yet you are only worried about those that are accidental? 239 out of 32,351. Wow?

Firstly I have said before, It's not about the percentage or the number, It's that it happens!

Secondly, I do believe that number could be curbed a lot more with a lot stricter gun laws. But you may think that would be taking them away again. Also I do worry about the other deaths but to be honest that again is another threads subject!

It seems to me that you are going about gun control in a way as to make the bar SOOOOOoooo high that eventually none can reach it. Chicago and some other sities already have this high bar and look where they are at.

According to you Chicago has a high gun fatality rate - Plus this accounts for Accidental deaths - Intentional Killings with guns could moderately be stopped with harsher gun laws to a point.

 

[Vassago]

Were these Accidents in your eyes?
Were these accidents preventable in your eyes? How?
Would gun control have prevented these tragedies?
Who should we put in Jail or at the very least punish? The instructors (Wife or girlfriend) or maybe the Husband?

Accidents through negligence. It means no criminal intent was meant, but it doesn't take away liability. The instructor died as a result of his own negligence. It's impossible to identify a person in that scenario. The mother dies as a result of the father's negligence. Should someone be put in jail? No, but there should be some serious training on gun safety forced on this guy. Who the hell leaves a loaded gun under a couch with toddlers in the house? Forgot? Who said they forgot? They knew it was there!

 

[adrianscotter]

I understand the people overthere simply handed them in. WHy in hell did you do that. Here it would be a little different. We don't need another King although our Present Pres. thinks he is.

p.s. Tennessee's accidental gun shot deaths is probably lower than that of your countries Assault deaths by gun. That is something to worry about ????? With no guns allowed , you should have no gun violence or at least that is what a certain group of people here in the USA keep telling us. Don't you worry, that dog won't hunt.

It was called 'no freaking choice'. The police had records of who owned what, where they were etc. we were all written to to tell us to hand our weapons in either at the club we had to be registered at or the police station by appointment, we were given a receipt and told we would be compensated at market value. Yes, I had a receipt, no, I never got paid for my firearms an no, I never will. I'm still owed around $1,600 (£1,000) for my firearms.

 

[adrianscotter]

I understand the people overthere simply handed them in. WHy in hell did you do that. Here it would be a little different. We don't need another King although our Present Pres. thinks he is.

p.s. Tennessee's accidental gun shot deaths is probably lower than that of your countries Assault deaths by gun. That is something to worry about ????? With no guns allowed , you should have no gun violence or at least that is what a certain group of people here in the USA keep telling us. Don't you worry, that dog won't hunt.

Whoa! 'simply handed them in', oh no we didn't! I put up a fight to keep my weapons and was threatened with a visit from the police firearms team to remove them if I didn't comply and one of the guys at the club I belonged to, a practical shooter, was visited by a firearms team who forcibly cuffed him and threatened to imprison him (not jail as you have here, the same as your State Penitentiary) if he didn't had over every weapon he had recorded with the police, plus all ammunition and any spares he had for every firearm he owned. I was pi**ed enough, he was incandescent!

 

[adrianscotter]

Accidents through negligence. It means no criminal intent was meant, but it doesn't take away liability. The instructor died as a result of his own negligence. It's impossible to identify a person in that scenario. The mother dies as a result of the father's negligence. Should someone be put in jail? No, but there should be some serious training on gun safety forced on this guy. Who the hell leaves a loaded gun under a couch with toddlers in the house? Forgot? Who said they forgot? They knew it was there!

Who in the hell gives a novice a full clip? Whenever I teach anyone how to use a firearm, we spend the first hour field stripping the thing and cleaning it whilst I tell them what happens when any tissue is hit by a bullet, about temporary and permanent cavities and the consequences. We do all of the safety stuff and only then do they get to hold it (unloaded), where to keep it pointed, where to keep their finger in relation to the trigger and when to put their finger on the trigger. The, and only then, do they get one single round to put downrange so they know what it feels like.

 

[Bladerunner]

Accidents through negligence. It means no criminal intent was meant, but it doesn't take away liability. The instructor died as a result of his own negligence. It's impossible to identify a person in that scenario. The mother dies as a result of the father's negligence. Should someone be put in jail? No, but there should be some serious training on gun safety forced on this guy. Who the hell leaves a loaded gun under a couch with toddlers in the house? Forgot? Who said they forgot? They knew it was there!

Hi Vassago: Hope your day is going well?

As litigious as this country is, I can guarantee you that if someone was hurt with a gun out of negligence, they would be on trial right about now. If not then civil lawsuit would almost make sure they were in the poor class for the rest of their lives.As far as the guns go, I know TN looks at all deaths very carefully and if needed, I feel they would pull their license/permit.

However, this thread is not about that, It is about the removal of all guns from the civilian hands. I know, you say, I say......BS....... Like Mr. Connor get the rules up so high, no one can reach them. When that happens, only the criminals will own guns.

Even in the UK, out of 4 mil guns in the country only 2.2 mil are registered.. Only 14,400 are handguns. However, 1997, deaths caused by guns were 187, 2004-156, 2010-165 and 2011-146. no statistics for death by handgun vs long gun but it appears that even after they took their guns away (Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997 ), oops does not look like they have changed since they took them away....... and they are trying to take mine away under the auspices that gun violence and deaths will go down. In other words, we would be like them>>>>>>>>>>>LOL... not in this century..

Lets face it gents, The UK people are a whole lot more easy going than we are here in the USA. I guess that is why we are the USA.

 

[adrianscotter]

Camera's would be the difference between wrongly accused or justifiably accused Adrian.

Several UK police officers already wear camera gear, it makes for interesting TV and as I said before, if a police officer screams at you to show him your hands / get on the floor / stand still / stay in the car or what ever, why wouldn't you do that unless you have something to hide

 

[Bladerunner]

It was called 'no freaking choice'. The police had records of who owned what, where they were etc. we were all written to to tell us to hand our weapons in either at the club we had to be registered at or the police station by appointment, we were given a receipt and told we would be compensated at market value. Yes, I had a receipt, no, I never got paid for my firearms an no, I never will. I'm still owed around $1,600 (£1,000) for my firearms.

too bad, if they had said "out of my cold dead fingers" it probably would not have happened. Just rem. this, and it is indicative of European Countries. 'You have got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything"

See my last stats for the UK. Appears you have more guns than you think and it has not changed the number of gun deaths.

 

[adrianscotter]

Hi Vassago: Hope your day is going well?

As litigious as this country is, I can guarantee you that if someone was hurt with a gun out of negligence, they would be on trial right about now. If not then civil lawsuit would almost make sure they were in the poor class for the rest of their lives.As far as the guns go, I know TN looks at all deaths very carefully and if needed, I feel they would pull their license/permit.

However, this thread is not about that, It is about the removal of all guns from the civilian hands. I know, you say, I say......BS....... Like Mr. Connor get the rules up so high, no one can reach them. When that happens, only the criminals will own guns.

Even in the UK, out of 4 mil guns in the country only 2.2 mil are registered.. Only 14,400 are handguns. However, 1997, deaths caused by guns were 187, 2004-156, 2010-165 and 2011-146. no statistics for death by handgun vs long gun but it appears that even after they took their guns away (Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997 ), oops does not look like they have changed since they took them away....... and they are trying to take mine away under the auspices that gun violence and deaths will go down. In other words, we would be like them>>>>>>>>>>>LOL... not in this century..

Lets face it gents, The UK people are a whole lot more easy going than we are here in the USA. I guess that is why we are the USA.

Going really off topic here (and I'm sorry for that and I'll try not to do it again), if your government would give me a Green Card (especially as the UK has SUCH a special relationship with the US), I would rather live here in the US than the UK with our 'nanny state' government that we have. :banghead:

And no, the deaths attributed to firearms has NOT changed as the figures tell.

 

[adrianscotter]

too bad, if they had said "out of my cold dead fingers" it probably would not have happened. Just rem. this, and it is indicative of European Countries. 'You have got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything"

See my last stats for the UK. Appears you have more guns than you think and it has not changed the number of gun deaths.

We tried everything up to but not including 'out of my cold, dead fingers' and we were threatened with prison time. Our Magna Carta (same as your Constitution) says we have the right to bear arms, the monarchy and the government are not supposed to be able to change it but they can, exactly the same as they could change your 2nd amendment, unfortunately.

 

[dan-cat]

Several UK police officers already wear camera gear, it makes for interesting TV and as I said before, if a police officer screams at you to show him your hands / get on the floor / stand still / stay in the car or what ever, why wouldn't you do that unless you have something to hide

You answered your own question here

 

[adrianscotter]

Getting back on topic, perhaps it should be a legal requirement for all citizens to carry a firearm unless they a precluded by way of mental state, criminal record etc., then anyone who didn't want that could move to California where they would have a big fence around it

 

[Bladerunner]

Going really off topic here (and I'm sorry for that and I'll try not to do it again), if your government would give me a Green Card (especially as the UK has SUCH a special relationship with the US), I would rather live here in the US than the UK with our 'nanny state' government that we have. :banghead:

And no, the deaths attributed to firearms has NOT changed as the figures tell.

They (they) are trying to force a nanny state in the USA. We have two more years of this S...T to put up with. Hopefully we will get someone in who does not want to fundamentally change the USA but make it better. That includes leaving the Second amendment alone. And that my friends is on topic for this thread.

 

[ConnorGiles]

However, this thread is not about that, It is about the removal of all guns from the civilian hands. I know, you say, I say......BS....... Like Mr. Connor get the rules up so high, no one can reach them. When that happens, only the criminals will own guns.

Let me just focus on this point, The rules wouldn't be so high?

Basic mentality checks don't take long at all, a wait time per weapon so that you cannot buy say more than one (or be waiting for more than one) at a time. - This is easily attainable but you see any point towards stricter gun control as a sign of us taking your guns away, which is far from the case. Also my last point was regular checks to see whether you are storing your weapon and ammunition safely and responsibly, What could you have to lose if your such a model gun owner?

You would have access to guns, But would be regularly checked to see if you are sane and responsible enough to be holding that weapon so that you are not a threat to anyone or even yourself.

Lets face it gents, The UK people are a whole lot more easy going than we are here in the USA. I guess that is why we are the USA.

Not the case, We definitely aren't easy going. The only difference here is that we have very little guns, America has a lot.

 

[ConnorGiles]

Several UK police officers already wear camera gear, it makes for interesting TV and as I said before, if a police officer screams at you to show him your hands / get on the floor / stand still / stay in the car or what ever, why wouldn't you do that unless you have something to hide

Authority issues would be the case here Adrian,

When police have given you orders to show your hands , get to the floor etc.. a lot of people would want a reason before hand.

What is the problem for the police officer telling them what the problem is? they have nothing to lose from that, and in most cases would make the person in question get to the ground and show hands etc...

Authority issues being the main concept here, as I know kids are getting bolder and bolder as generations pass. This is leading them to be less scared or intimidated via the police or any other authority figures.

But this is another threads subject

 

[ConnorGiles]

too bad, if they had said "out of my cold dead fingers" it probably would not have happened. Just rem. this, and it is indicative of European Countries. 'You have got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything"

See my last stats for the UK. Appears you have more guns than you think and it has not changed the number of gun deaths.

I don't see why you persist on showing us our gun deaths, when this topic is about gun control and basically keeping your weapons safe and being responsible. NOT ABOUT TAKING THEM AWAY!