Immigration (1 Viewer)

[ColinEssex]

Is it true then that some GP's are now on £250,000 a year ?

That's true. The new contracts can boost a GP's salary if they fulfill all the criteria. Some senior administrators in the NHS are approaching that figure if you include "perks"

£250,000?? thats 3 to 4 weeks wages for a premiership footballer.

Or 13 correct answers on "Who wants to be a Millionaire".

Or £250,000 is what the Iraq war is costing the USA every 5 minutes (or $100,000 per minute)
Ref

Or £250,000 represents 20 years work for a clerical officer in the NHS (based on a 12K salary)

Col

 

[ColinEssex]

If I may shift focus of the thread a little...

1. At what level of income per year would/could a household consider private health care instead of the NHS?

2. Do some 'Better' companies offer private health care benefits or do most all of them make you go with the NHS?

Some private companies do offer private health care as part of the "salary package" to higher paid people.

Anyone can buy healthcare privately. There are different levels that provide different things - some may be just outpatients, others just inpatients. I understand it can be a bit pricey for say a family of 4.
BUPA is the main private provider of private healthcare. They have their own hospitals etc. BUPA's current advertising tack is to offer infection free hospital care. (thats because the NHS is riddled with MRSA and there's a chance of getting an infection if you have surgery)

The main advantage of Private Healthcare is that you avoid waiting Lists. On the NHS you currently wait 13 weeks for an outpatient appointment and about 9 to 12 months for inpatient treatment. You also get the Consultant (Specialist) dealing with you, not just a junior doctor. My wife was in hospital last year for 2 months and never saw the Consultant she was under.

The government has pumped billions extra cash into the NHS over the last few years, yet we have hospitals closing and staff being made redundant. The NHS was £700 million in debt last year.

Col

 

[Rich]

The main advantage of Private Healthcare is that you avoid waiting Lists. Col

Except that you can't get cover for an existing or previous illness and the costs are high and you don't get a rebate or reduction on your NI contributions from the government

 

[ColinEssex]

Except that you can't get cover for an existing or previous illness and the costs are high and you don't get a rebate or reduction on your NI contributions from the government

Well yes - its a standard insurance thing isn't it. You only get cover if you are super healthy. Any hint of an illness and you've got no chance, you then slum it in the NHS.

Col

 

[Rich]

Well yes - its a standard insurance thing isn't it. You only get cover if you are super healthy. Any hint of an illness and you've got no chance, you then slum it in the NHS.

Col

and of course if anything goes wrong whilst being treated privately it's the NHS that has to pick up the pieces

 

[ColinEssex]

and of course if anything goes wrong whilst being treated privately it's the NHS that has to pick up the pieces

Private hospitals don't have Casualty departments. If you need emergency treatment you have to wait your 4 hours + to be seen in an NHS Casualty like everyone else.

Col

 

[Rich]

Private hospitals don't have Casualty departments. If you need emergency treatment you have to wait your 4 hours + to be seen in an NHS Casualty like everyone else.

Col

Yes and they won't discriminate based on wealth, creed, colour or legal status. I note that as an aside 1 in 8 immigrants into Europe now head for the UK

 

[Len Boorman]

So while we are talking about the NHS I see that we are now going to get "Dignity" staff to look after the dignity of patients.

Well Col what do you think of that.

Seems to me that the NHS seems to have plenty of Admin type people and very few actual Nursing /Treatment people.

Like in industry when you have lots of Office bods and few people actually producing invoiceable output. Normally company goes bust....Is that what we are seeing with the NHS.

By golly have I detected the problem that Blair and his bunch of wallies have failed to see.

I must be a leader then with that sort of sharp incisive vision or is Blair and his cronies and even bigger bunch of wallies than I thought

L

 

[ColinEssex]

So while we are talking about the NHS I see that we are now going to get "Dignity" staff to look after the dignity of patients.

Well Col what do you think of that.

I haven't seen that. But its the role of nursing staff and medical staff to make sure patients are treated with dignity.

Seems to me that the NHS seems to have plenty of Admin type people and very few actual Nursing /Treatment people.

Oh Len, don't get me started or I'll never shut up - I could quote a thousand examples. I have been in it since 1967

Like in industry when you have lots of Office bods and few people actually producing invoiceable output. Normally company goes bust....Is that what we are seeing with the NHS.

Sort of - its a little more complex but essentially thats about it.
For example a hospital trust (not in Essex) is £3m overspent at 31/3/06. They have to pay that back out of the new money for the new year AND they get £3m less funding as a penalty for overspending. So they pay twice and start the new year £6m less than last year.

By golly have I detected the problem that Blair and his bunch of wallies have failed to see.

They hear only what they want to hear.

I must be a leader then with that sort of sharp incisive vision or is Blair and his cronies and even bigger bunch of wallies than I thought

The former is the more accurate

Col

 

[FoFa]

Well yesterday the US Gov. went after illegals at a palate mfg. company, and are talking about enforcing regulation on those companies that hire the illegals. Of course they had to release the illegals (in the USA of course) they caught because the holding facility that processes them was over capacity.

 

[jsanders]

If you want to look at everything ugly in the US today, all you have to do is look to America’s biggest businesses (the Fortune 500, accounted for about 1/3 of the entire US economy). They and their lap dog republican politicians.

Pay Fight in Tech's Trenches
Day Laborers for a Verizon Subcontractor Say They Were Cheated
By Elissa Silverman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, February 16, 2006; D01
Nerbin Rodriguez spent weeks digging ditches near Chantilly last summer for the benefit of Verizon Communications Inc., part of the estimated $20 billion fiber-optic cable system the company is building to bring its next-generation phone, television and Internet service to American homes.
All that shoveling by hand cost him $2,000 in unpaid wages, Rodriguez now alleges. Yet he and 22 other ditch-digging colleagues who sometimes seek work at a Fairfax County day-laborer site can't look to the telecommunications giant for their money. They must try to get it from a subcontractor three layers removed that hired Rodriguez for $100 a day with no contract or paperwork.

 

[ColinEssex]

They must try to get it from a subcontractor three layers removed that hired Rodriguez for $100 a day with no contract or paperwork.

No contract? In US law, is that legal?

Col

 

[jsanders]

No contract? In US law, is that legal?

Col

Legal but stupid. Easy to pull one over the ilegals.


No Habla English, no green card, no contract.

Not only do the companies hire them illegally, pay no taxes, they also cheat them. Got to love this market driven economy.

 

[dan-cat]

Not only do the companies hire them illegally, pay no taxes, they also cheat them. Got to love this market driven economy.

...and why are they treated in this way? What is the mentality behind this behaviour towards the common man?

You have encapsulated my entire beef on the subject with this paragraph.

They are illegal but they have still been cheated. Why? because they are human beings. Their illegal status does not alter this one jot. The immigrants legal status does not excuse the businesses' behaviour or their callous attitude to the human individual. This is why I reject words like 'infestation','insidious' and 'inferior' when describing groups of people.

They have been cheated because they worked and got not nothing. They were made a verbal promise and it was not kept. Why do these things matter if the worker was illegal? Simple. The liberal use of another human being as a beast of burden.

People excuse themselves from such behaviour by labelling their victim's with such terms. They excuse themselves from any moral responsibility by not affording the objects of their actions with human qualities.

This is one of the underlying reasons why we have thousands of demonstrators on our streets today demanding rights. They are starting to untie the harnesses that big business put on them and that we have ignored for years.

 

[jsanders]

...and why are they treated in this way? What is the mentality behind this behaviour towards the common man?

You have encapsulated my entire beef on the subject with this paragraph.

They are illegal but they have still been cheated. Why? because they are human beings. Their illegal status does not alter this one jot. The immigrants legal status does not excuse the businesses' behaviour or their callous attitude to the human individual. This is why I reject words like 'infestation','insidious' and 'inferior' when describing groups of people.

They have been cheated because they worked and got not nothing. They were made a verbal promise and it was not kept. Why do these things matter if the worker was illegal? Simple. The liberal use of another human being as a beast of burden.

People excuse themselves from such behaviour by labelling their victim's with such terms. They excuse themselves from any moral responsibility by not affording the objects of their actions with human qualities.

This is one of the underlying reasons why we have thousands of demonstrators on our streets today demanding rights. They are starting to untie the harnesses that big business put on them and that we have ignored for years.

Do you thgink I'm disagreeing with you Dan, cause it sounds like you're raving again.

What are we going to do about it?

 

[dan-cat]

Do you thgink I'm disagreeing with you Dan

No I was actually looking for you to admit that your use of such terms was wrong.

Doing so would also invalidate your following statement...

,cause it sounds like you're raving again.

We don't agree until you have done so and until you stop suggesting that I'm a nut job. It's a sticking point because the CAUSE of the entire problem is the exploitation of the common man. The treatment of them as inferiors.

What are we going to do about it?

Clarify the cause and dismiss the attitude that fuelled it.

 

[jsanders]

...and why are they treated in this way? What is the mentality behind this behaviour towards the common man?

.

Greed Dan Greed, corporate greed and politicians on the pay role.

... You have encapsulated my entire beef on the subject with this paragraph.

.

Yes, it’s true, I do tend to make very profound and succinct statements, but thank you for noticing.

...

They are illegal but they have still been cheated. Why? because they are human beings. Their illegal status does not alter this one jot. The immigrants legal status does not excuse the businesses' behaviour or their callous attitude to the human individual. This is why I reject words like 'infestation','insidious' and 'inferior' when describing groups of people.

They have been cheated because they worked and got not nothing. They were made a verbal promise and it was not kept. Why do these things matter if the worker was illegal? Simple. The liberal use of another human being as a beast of burden.

People excuse themselves from such behaviour by labelling their victim's with such terms. They excuse themselves from any moral responsibility by not affording the objects of their actions with human qualities.

This is one of the underlying reasons why we have thousands of demonstrators on our streets today demanding rights. They are starting to untie the harnesses that big business put on them and that we have ignored for years.

Lunatic Raving, in so much as you’re agreeing with me, a simple yes would suffice.



My point against all this illegal immigration has not been that’s it’s their fault that they’re here. It’s that the very things they are doing is insuring they will continue to be enslaved.

 

[KenHigg]

...It’s that the very things they are doing is insuring they will continue to be enslaved.

Bottom line is that if something isn't done about it we will all be living like they do in Mexico...

 

[dan-cat]

Lunatic Raving, in so much as you’re agreeing with me, a simple yes would suffice.

But I don't agree with you. Re-read...

People excuse themselves from such behaviour by labelling their victim's with such terms. They excuse themselves from any moral responsibility by not affording the objects of their actions with human qualities.

I'm using your statement to expose your contradictory views on the subject. You seemed to have missed this point.

My point against all this illegal immigration has not been that’s it’s their fault that they’re here. It’s that the very things they are doing is insuring they will continue to be enslaved.

My point is your duplicity on the subject. You accept that big business treats these individuals as 'inferiors' because of 'greed', and yet you fail to see the hypocrisy of this stand when combined with your own use of terms when describing these illegals. You yourself described them as 'inferior', 'insidious' and as an 'infestation'. This is the attitude that fuelled the growth of the problem in the first place. ie. Exploit these people and it's ok because they are inferior anyway.

You attempt to ignore this duplicity by labelling me as a 'lunatic' but this makes no difference. The argument stands whether I'm nuts or not.

I say you were wrong to use such terms to bolster your arguments. You have yet to give me any sound argument to reject this.

 

[Rich]

Bottom line is that if something isn't done about it we will all be living like they do in Mexico...

How do you know this for a fact? Our government tells us that immigrants to our country (legal or otherwise) have brought enormous economic benefits.
Who's telling the truth, the government or the extreme right who want to evict everybody with coloured skin?