NASA Study Indicates Antarctica is Gaining More Ice Than It's Losing -

[isladogs]

Post #555

Climate change science is a great science to be in because you can be wrong all of the time and it does not matter

Post #560

Being a climate scientist is the best science to be in as you can be wrong all the time year after year and it doe not matter.

Continually denying climate change is a great position to hold because you can repeat the same points over and over again without evidence and it does not matter

 

[Mike375]

Post #555


Continually denying climate change is a great position to hold because you can repeat the same points over and over again without evidence and it does not matter

At standard atmospheric pressure water boils at 100 C or 212 F. No denying, no politics and no differing science opinions. If the water boiled at 90 C then someone could work out the atmospheric pressure of where the water was boiled etc.

Continually denying (man made) climate change will continue while all the predictions are wrong and of course the money trail adds to the equation.

When you talk about the science of man made climate change which one do you select.

 

[isladogs]

I read the evidence and follow it. Some of the evidence is more convincing than others and the overall picture is very complex. But to deny the overall trend based on some inaccuracies in earlier models is utterly flawed.

There is a lot of money spent by influential pressure groups denying there is a problem. Repeating almost word for word the same points doesn't make them any more valid.

Your first paragraph was of course true but utterly irrelevant to the points you make elsewhere. Still I suppose its good to see you quoting some actual scientific facts for a change.

Recently (post #493) I remember you asking how Antarctic sea ice could continue to melt when the land temperature was below 0C. If you remember, I gave you an answer to that.

Just another reminder that the title of this thread is no longer correct and the opposite has now been true for several years.

 

[Mike375]

Recently (post #493) I remember you asking how Antarctic sea ice could continue to melt when the land temperature was below 0C. If you remember, I gave you an answer to that.

I just checked back and I did not think the answer was good.

As far as spending money go it is the man made climate change side that specialise in that department

How long would take all the ice at Antarctic to melt? There is a fair bit and very thick and ice is not exactly a great conductor of heat.

Has anyone very worked out the amount of heat to melt all that ice and I suppose the latent heat of fusion would be a factor.

If somehow it was all warmed to melting point and runs into the ocean what would happen to the ocean's temperature?

 

[Rx_]

Ice Age Farmer - look at the data.
Tonight, Denver will hit an all time low since records kept. NOT just for this date, an all time low.
Grand Solar Minimum - Crop Loss Map - this is world-wide.
http://iceagefarmer.com/map/

YouTube story: EMPTY BOWLS: Aussie Cereal Prices Pop - Arctic Ecosystem Collapse “Too Cold” - Irish Potato Shortage

DATA: Yes actual Thermal Units by zip code - the US is much Colder

GDD: Growing Degree Days tool: how much colder has 2019 been for you?
http://iceagefarmer.com/gdd
Growing degree days (GDD) are a measure of heat accumulation used by horticulturists, gardeners, and farmers to predict plant and animal development rates such as the date that a flower will bloom, an insect will emerge from dormancy, or a crop will reach maturity.
This data comes from the Dept of Ag. The video explains that all but 3 zip codes in the US are dropping in temp as the Grand Solar Minimum arrives.

 

[Mike375]

Ice Age Farmer - look at the data.
Tonight, Denver will hit an all time low since records kept. NOT just for this date, an all time low.
Grand Solar Minimum - Crop Loss Map - this is world-wide.
http://iceagefarmer.com/map/

YouTube story: EMPTY BOWLS: Aussie Cereal Prices Pop - Arctic Ecosystem Collapse “Too Cold” - Irish Potato Shortage

DATA: Yes actual Thermal Units by zip code - the US is much Colder

GDD: Growing Degree Days tool: how much colder has 2019 been for you?
http://iceagefarmer.com/gdd
Growing degree days (GDD) are a measure of heat accumulation used by horticulturists, gardeners, and farmers to predict plant and animal development rates such as the date that a flower will bloom, an insect will emerge from dormancy, or a crop will reach maturity.
This data comes from the Dept of Ag. The video explains that all but 3 zip codes in the US are dropping in temp as the Grand Solar Minimum arrives.

iI Australia, colder than normal even for a long time is the weather. However, even a single hot day is climate change

The Australian Labor Party and The Greens have declared a climate emergency. Not sure what anyone will do as we produce less than 1.5% of man made greenhouses gases. Of course the figure is far bigger if you include the coal and gas we export but that does not count What counts is having a story so the tax payer will be happy for a fortune given to business to build windmills all over the place.

 

[isladogs]

I just checked back and I did not think the answer was good.

Apologies. I should have realised not to answer a science question from you using scientific facts. Perhaps you would have thought more of it if I had just made a sweeping political swipe at 'the left'

How long would take all the ice at Antarctic to melt? There is a fair bit and very thick and ice is not exactly a great conductor of heat.

Has anyone very worked out the amount of heat to melt all that ice and I suppose the latent heat of fusion would be a factor.

If somehow it was all warmed to melting point and runs into the ocean what would happen to the ocean's temperature?

No point giving a serious answer to these questions so :
1. A fair while depending on how warm it is there.
2. I haven't and why would anyone do so. Obviously L.H. would be a factor as it is when any block of ice melts.
3. Well for that to 'somehow happen', the nearby ocean would already be warmer as it is adjacent to the Antarctic sea ice and indeed the land ice. As blocks of ice drop into the ocean they would cool it slightly but then gradually melt.

But really, is there a point to all these hypothetical questions?
If there is a point, why not do the research yourself?

 

[Mike375]

But really, is there a point to all these hypothetical questions?
If there is a point, why not do the research yourself?

When you do the research you get nowhere so I asked you.

I would hardly think asking how long the Antarctic ice would take to melt is just some hypothetical question. As is cooling of the ocean resulting from all the melted ice flowing into the ocean.

Man made climate change supporters make a big deal about ocean levels rising but when asked about how long this would take it always ends with "don't know" You know both the volume and depth of the ice and temperature of the ice. You know the volume of the ocean so would know the resulting change its temperature and would then know how much it would contract.

 

[isladogs]

You know the volume of the ocean so would know the resulting change its temperature and would then know how much it would contract.

It wouldn't contract.
The maximum density of water is at 4 C. Below that it expands as it approaches freezing point
Although ice contracts by about 10% when it melts, the added ice entering the ocean would increase the overall sea volume and therefore the sea level would rise.
Just the same as adding ice cubes to a glass of water and watching them melt

 

[Mike375]

It wouldn't contract.

The maximum density of water is at 4 C. Below that it expands as it approaches freezing point

Yes I know that. If that was not the case then lots of rivers and lakes would freeze solid in winter.

However the ocean's temperature is well above 4C.

Back to the Antarctic. As I posted you have the volume and temperate of the ice and its depth so how long does it take to melt. Someone must know with all this noise about sea level rising and the accompanying disasters.

 

[isladogs]

However the ocean's temperature is well above 4C.

True off the coast of Australia. But not surrounding Antarctica which is what matters

 

[ColinEssex]

We all know that the USA is in the top 2 most polluting countries.

Why then, does the USA pull out of every climate change international conference? It gives the impression that the USA is waving two fingers at the rest of the world in a don't care type attitude.

Do you think it is to do with money?

Col

 

[Mike375]

We all know that the USA is in the top 2 most polluting countries.

Why then, does the USA pull out of every climate change international conference? It gives the impression that the USA is waving two fingers at the rest of the world in a don't care type attitude.

Do you think it is to do with money?

Col

Col,

This only a guess on my part but I have lot do with them because of guns etc.

Australia is way over the top with the stuff. The Labor party and the Greens have declared a climate emergency. However, where Australia is very different to America is the population spread. For example if New York city Metro population was like Sydney in terms of percentage or population it would have 65 million plus people. Los Angeles would have 65 million.

Nearly everyone in Australia lives in either Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth and Adelaide and up the East coast from Melbourne to Brisbane. NASA have a map (Google will get it) of the earth laid out flat and of night time. A look at Australia at night tells the story.

Thus the political situation is very different. In the inner city suburbs of Sydney and Melbourne (lots of Federal and State electorates) the climate change thing is unreal. America does not have this political situation.

As a side note I am still waiting for someone to tell me how long will it take for the ice at the Antarctic to melt. A very rough estimate would be fine.

This should be really simple as the volume, surface area, depth and temperature of the ice is known. Of course no one wants to talk about it because not only is the mass of ice so huge and so deep but it is way below 0C or 32F. A lot of people think the ice is few feet deep. It is 1000s and 1000s of feet deep.

Of course no one wants to give the answer because that would blow to pieces the dramatic story on sea levels rising etc.

 

[AccessBlaster]

We all know that the USA is in the top 2 most polluting countries.

Why then, does the USA pull out of every climate change international conference? It gives the impression that the USA is waving two fingers at the rest of the world in a don't care type attitude.

Do you think it is to do with money?

Col

My guess is this statement will go unchallenged by the progressive left that lurks here.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

The USA pulls out of every climate change conference because many people here see the conference as a waste of our time. I didn't say it IS a waste of our time, but it is PERCEIVED as such.

If you look at the Paris accords of a few years ago as one example, they imposed nearly Draconian measures on the wealthiest countries and would have restricted the national economies in a strangle hold. USA unemployment would have skyrocketed to new heights as opposed to its current status - lowest unemployment in over 49 years. The American people, rightly or wrongly, saw it as a money grab through social engineering with a climatology veneer. Again - that is the perception. I do not claim this perception to be uniformly held by USA citizens.

President Trump has business interests at heart. He probably wouldn't deny it. But he is also aware that if you kill a country's industrial base you kill its employment potential. Industries are where you find large-scale employment. With large-scale employment, you have people paying into Social Security. You have people no longer "on the dole" - because they have jobs that pay decent wages, or at least close to decent wages. There aren't enough executive jobs, teaching jobs, etc. to go around. So anything that kills employment levels in the USA is not seen as a good thing.

The Paris and Kyoto accords were seen by high-level politicians a bad deal for the American people. That is basically why the USA steps away from those conferences. I will not (for this post) make a claim as to what is correct. But I can tell you that what the American people see is a set of meetings by liberals who can't continue with tax-and-spend - so their parties see a way to "put the squeeze" on the USA. Thanks but no thanks.

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

Jeremy Clarkson on climate change - hilarious!

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10261846/greta-thunberg-kids-terrified/

Sent from Newbury UK

 

[isladogs]

My guess is this statement will go unchallenged by the progressive left that lurks here.

Although his answer was more nuanced, I'd say that the Doc's answer largely confirmed the money part of that quote and that the USA cares more about the domestic audience than it does about the impact on other countries.

So where does that leave us? I really don't think Doc could ever be associated with the 'progressive left' … whoever that may be.

 

[AccessBlaster]

I take no issue with Doc's reply.

 

[isladogs]

If we're just talking about perception, nor do I.
You may just have missed my point?

 

[Galaxiom]

President Trump has business interests at heart. He probably wouldn't deny it. But he is also aware that if you kill a country's industrial base you kill its employment potential. Industries are where you find large-scale employment.

Oh he certainly has the business interests of the established powers at heart. Mining companies run the world and governments are their willing puppets.

The greatest myth is that economies would be destroyed by changing to renewable energy sources. In fact the change represents the greatest economic opportunity ever.