Oliver Cromwell

[Adam Caramon]

So generally seems like Oliver Cromwell isn't looked upon very highly in the UK. I kind of guessed that after I read that once the monarchy was restored they had his body disinterred from Westminster Abbey and hung. Very interesting regardless.


Using other dates for Christian holidays was done in order to get the majority population to convert over to the new religion. Basically, as religions have been around, then lost influence, political leaders have created new religions to take the place of the old.

And honestly, I have to side with Colin this time, I think most Chrisitians probably don't know of the pagan roots of Christmas or the relation to the 'Christmas' tree.

Its like Georgle Carlin said, if they had created the 9 commandments it would have been laughed away, but the 10 commandments sounds official, sounds important.

 

[Kryst51]

And honestly, I have to side with Colin this time, I think most Chrisitians probably don't know of the pagan roots of Christmas or the relation to the 'Christmas' tree.

How do you know what the majority of Christians believe? How many do you know? I happen to know a lot, and the Christians I know all know the origins of the holidays. It's taught from an early age...Even as young as 2 and 3 year old Sunday school (which I have taught).

I really don't mind other peoples opinions but I dislike it when people apply generalities to a group of people that they aren't a part of and don't understand.

 

[Kryst51]

So generally seems like Oliver Cromwell isn't looked upon very highly in the UK. I kind of guessed that after I read that once the monarchy was restored they had his body disinterred from Westminster Abbey and hung. Very interesting regardless.

I am currently trying to study American history, as I have forgotten a lot of what I learned in school (As is usually the case with knowledge that doesn't get applied much) but I have plan to study British history as well, since a lot of my family is descended from the UK. (Also from other countries too...) Seems like an interesting guy, although I don't know much about him, Maybe I'll read a biography.

 

[Alc]

Hmmm... I can take a lot of bashing of the country that I belong to... But please don't bash my religion too. I wouldn't bash others on here....

I wouldn't advise you do any searching for threads relating to 'Christians' on this forum.

They, along with other religions and God him/her/itself, come in for waaaaaaaay more 'bashing' than a little dig about the origins of Christmas trees.

Just a word of advice, take it how you wish.

 

[Kryst51]

I wouldn't advise you do any searching for threads relating to 'Christians' on this forum.

Thanks for that, I will surely take your advice as I don't like to stir up trouble, but in areas of my faith have a really hard time keeping my mouth shut. -- I am beginning to wonder if I should keep my post reading away from the watercooler in general and strictly access focused, although I have enjoyed a lot of the discussions that occurs.

 

[Adam Caramon]

I really don't mind other peoples opinions but I dislike it when people apply generalities to a group of people that they aren't a part of and don't understand.

Actually, I am very involved in religious communities, as religion is one of the things I have studied for many years. Christianity, Islam, Pagan rituals, Satanism (the Anton Lavey variety), Shintoism, etc.

In my experience, the majority of people that I have encountered and spoken with or seen communicating via internet are not familiar with their religion's origins, just its modern practices.

For example, in the bible there was a flood that God created and Noah's ark, etc. Few people know that in an earlier document, the Epic of Gilgamesh, a very similiar flood occurs. The bibilical flood is thought to have been inspired from the flood from the epic by non-religious folk.

I think as some people are very defensive of their country, some others are very defensive of their religion. But from a purely academic standpoint, a lot of the components of a religion can be discussed/debated as long as you don't let your religious views influence logic.

 

[Kryst51]

Actually, I am very involved in religious communities, as religion is one of the things I have studied for many years. Christianity, Islam, Pagan rituals, Satanism (the Anton Lavey variety), Shintoism, etc.

Ok, I can concede this point (The point that you understand religions) So maybe my point doesn't apply to you (no offense to him but I still think it applies to Col) However, Christianity is a whole different ballgame from the point of understanding when it involves belief in Christ and as the Bible as absolute truth. And I can deal with discussion (most times, sometimes my feelings take over) as long as bashing doesn't occur.

But from a purely academic standpoint, a lot of the components of a religion can be discussed/debated as long as you don't let your religious views influence logic.

Believing in Christ involves more then logic, As a sinner, my mind and the logic it produces is just as messed up as the rest of me. For me there is no "purely academic standpoint" This is how I live my life, every aspect, so it can't be disengaged....

For example, in the bible there was a flood that God created and Noah's ark, etc. Few people know that in an earlier document, the Epic of Gilgamesh, a very similiar flood occurs. The bibilical flood is thought to have been inspired from the flood from the epic by non-religious folk.

Hmmm... I have heard about the Gilgamesh document before. But to give you a glimpse into my mind, and others like me, We believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God. All of the writings contained in the Bible are consistent with one another (in style and theme), and have been written over a large period of time by many different people. I sincerely hope that your study of religion brings you to more than just something to debate on. And that is the last you will hear of me talking about my beliefs, although I am happy to listen to anything you have to say, and will respond to it. I'll (try to) limit my response to ovjectivity, as I don't wish to offend anybody.

 

[statsman]

The practice of celebrating Christian festivals on the same dates as pagan ones was done to make it easier for the newly converted Christians. They had somthing they knew to identify with.

Christianity did not initiate this. Many of the religions that preceded it did the same thing.

Sorry I hijacked the thread. We were having a lovely discussion about Cromwell burning papists previously.

 

[statsman]

It should be banned from having any fake religious connections. It is a pagan festival and should be kept that way.

Col

Guess who's getting a lump of coal in his stocking this year.

 

[Rich]

Guess who's getting a lump of coal in his stocking this year.

Along with some nuts and an orange, but then what the hell's wrong with that anyway?

 

[ColinEssex]

I am currently trying to study American history,

That shouldn't take too long. What are you going to do on day 2?

Col

 

[Kryst51]

That shouldn't take too long. What are you going to do on day 2?

Thank God about the outcome probably

 

[GaryPanic]

The pagan festival celebrating and worship of the trees etc. was on the 25th Dec - that's why people have "christmas" trees. The celebration of the birth of the con-man Jesus was march / April time. No-one (quite rightly) too that seriously, so it was moved to coincide with the pagan festival on Dec 25th.

I think it's funny that strict christians have a christmas tree without knowing they are celebrating a pagan worship.

Col

Now I have to take exception to this ....
JC i am sure (cannot prove it)was a decent person - who's values were good -
Saul(Paul) forced through a lot of changes (weather for good or bad ... is one for a really good arguement) and it is recorded that Peter and Paul had discussions(arguements) and it wasn't until about 200 years on that chrisitans really came into there own with Emporor Const..-something

early christian at this time were not your tree huggin hippy type - they were extremists - this i think we can agree is were it really starts to go tits up .. but if we were to look at JC the man , his values were decent -honest and can at least be seen as a spirtual person if not more depending on your stand point...
what has been said in his name and done in his name - well that is sheer madness

or it could all be fairy tale stuff ... created to keep the little people in their place .. who really knows - i sure as hell don't

but the idea of being nice to people isn't a bad one - so i try and follow that (except the french...lol)

 

[ColinEssex]

Guess who's getting a lump of coal in his stocking this year.

What has that got to do with not believing in a fairy tale?

Col

 

[GaryPanic]

That shouldn't take too long. What are you going to do on day 2?

Col

today we killed the indians ....(only kidding)

 

[Rich]

but if we were to look at JC the man , his values were decent -honest and can at least be seen as a spirtual person if not more depending on your stand point...

As was Ghandi

 

[Rich]

today we killed the indians ....(only kidding)

No, that bit's glossed over

 

[GaryPanic]

i would say that all religous leaders (or figure heads the ones that start the religion ) were decent people -

its the nut jobs that follow them that cause a problem

 

[Rich]

i would say that all religous leaders (or figure heads the ones that start the religion ) were decent people -

The Pope in WW11?

 

[GaryPanic]

The Pope in WW11?

he didn't start the religion (I meant the first person - not some numpty 1900 later) - i wrote it badly ...
figure head i meant - JC, any one of the various Buddas - Mohammed , etc