Riots in the USA - just an excuse to let off energy?

[pbaldy]

*All human lives matter*, something to think about. It removes everything else and makes us ALL human, equal.

And I heartily agree with this sentiment.

 

[GinaWhipp]

@pbaldy

Yep, grand kids first!

In post 67 I was describing racism experienced. I believe the protests are more about equality. I believe the root cause is about equality. I don't get up in the morning anticipating running into bigotry. Nope, I get up saying, it's going to be a good day and today I am blessed. I'm not looking for it but when confronted by it, sometimes, if I see value, I even try to make it a teachable moment. IMO, some people don't even realize what they just said or did was offensive and that goes for black and white.

I think if you expect it you will find it in everything. However, what I think people don't get is what you are seeing may not be racism, they,may not know that's offensive. One of my Clients introduced me as *my* Black developer. My skin crawled but I said nothing then. After the meeting and his Client left I told him I found that offensive, I am not property and *belong* to no one. His eyes opened wide and he said he didn't even think about it and apologized and we moved on. It actually improved our relationship on a personal level where he calls to ask questions about what he doesn't understand and I call and ask him questions I don't understand as we are both on opposite sides of the political forum and see the world thru different lens. I am now referred to as the *sister* of the group (there are three of us), However, that could have turned real ugly real fast had I jumped in the moment. I guess it depends on how you react but then again maybe it's how you've been treated. I really don't know.

 

[Deleted member 147267]

One of my Clients introduced me as *my* Black developer.

I find that astounding. I cannot recall ever having a friend/associate/whatever that was black, Asian, European or anything else for that matter, and ever thought of them as anything but belonging to the relational category; i.e. they were my friend, associate, whatever. Using racial adjectives to distinguish between my white and non-white counterpart would never cross my mind.

Where I worked for 40 years, everyone was treated equally. If I ever called the black coach (foreman) of the electrical shop our "black coach" I definitely would have been called up on the carpet if anyone reported it. Any black mechanic I worked with was just another mechanic to me. I'm not saying I'm colour blind, and I'm not saying I understand the trials that non-white people go through, just saying that I was raised to never make race an issue in any case. While the existence of predjudice and racism isn't news to me, some of the stuff being revealed here is eye opening.

 

[Pat Hartman]

*no justice, no peace*

Exactly how many minutes is the mob willing to wait for the wheels of justice to turn? Threatening to riot until "justice" happens is insane and has nothing whatsoever to do with justice. And exactly what would be considered "justice" anyway? Do we have to put Chauvin on a platform in the public square and have a black man kneel on his neck until he dies while we film the event? Oh, wait! We can't kill murderers. They are a protected class. We can only kill babies. Maybe Chauvin is a Republican. Then it would be OK to kill him. I just have to get the new rules correct.

Has anyone heard about the Latvian soccer player in California who was fired because his wife who was in Chicago made a tweet, in Latvian, that the mob disapproved of. He was forced to apologize for her tweet and then forced to denounce her and then they fired him anyway!!!! Was that justice? I'll bet he's sorry he emigrated to the US where we have the first amendment and rule of law. Sure didn't work for him. He thought he was coming to a free country.

We are in the middle of the French revolution folks. Get out your guns and lock your doors. The mob is coming for you if you dare to even question them. We are talking pretty freely in this thread and so far we haven't had anyone melt down and resort to name calling so I commend you all but can you talk the same way to friends and family members who disagree with you? How many seconds into a "conversation" before they tell you to shut up and call you names?

 

[The_Doc_Man]

How many seconds into a "conversation" before they tell you to shut up and call you names?

I fell out of grace with a friend after a conversation that lasted maybe 12-15 seconds. During the Louisiana governor's race between Edwin Edwards and David Duke, I commented to my friend "Where is Carl Weiss when we need him the most." For those of you who don't remember that bit of history, Carl Weiss was the doctor who assassinated Huey P Long in the Louisiana capitol building. She became almost like a cat threatened with a bath, got her dander up, scolded me for being insensitive. I was just making a joke, but apparently there was some Jewish tie-in that made saying his name anathema to a Jewish person. I am fairly sure there wasn't a gay tie-in, though that also applied to her.

I don't know that I have EVER returned to her good graces. But if she's that hair-trigger, maybe I will keep her at arm's length. She got miffed when I brought my lady friend to a meeting of "the gang" and that lady friend made a comment about makeup in relation to the daughter of another member of the group's lady friend. (I know - convoluted relationship - but in this day and age are there any other kind?) Anyway, because my friend was gay and I was straight - and my lady friend was straight - there was a spark of some kind. But I made a choice right there to defend my partner who later became my wife. Probably tore my other friend up - but she was spoiling for a fight and I wasn't going to yield in this case.

I will admit to being insensitive, abrasive, and clueless a lot of the time but I want to make this perfectly clear. I am not insensitive about race. I am more of an equal-opportunity insulter. I play very few favorites and am willing to spread it around. Those of you who know of my interactions on the "Are you an atheist" thread will know I have only one target, but even then it isn't what you might think. I don't care what you believe. Just don't try to pass off as factual something that cannot be proved. Other than that, I play no favorites in my insensitivity.

 

[GinaWhipp]

I find that astounding. I cannot recall ever having a friend/associate/whatever that was black, Asian, European or anything else for that matter, and ever thought of them as anything but belonging to the relational category; i.e. they were my friend, associate, whatever. Using racial adjectives to distinguish between my white and non-white counterpart would never cross my mind.

Where I worked for 40 years, everyone was treated equally. If I ever called the black coach (foreman) of the electrical shop our "black coach" I definitely would have been called up on the carpet if anyone reported it. Any black mechanic I worked with was just another mechanic to me. I'm not saying I'm colour blind, and I'm not saying I understand the trials that non-white people go through, just saying that I was raised to never make race an issue in any case. While the existence of predjudice and racism isn't news to me, some of the stuff being revealed here is eye opening.

Which is why I say not everyone understands *what* they are saying. There was no harm meant and I could even find the argument to *justify* why he did that. That siad, had I over reacted we both would have lost. So sometimes we need to take a step back from the situation before overreacting. Though not sure I would have handled it the same way if his Client wasn't in the room.

Thru the years I learned people don't often *hear* themselves. They always understand it's not *what* they say but *how they say it. When I was young we were talk to *think* before you speak, I think that sentiment got lost along the way. Also remember I am a *tad* older than you. I heard *stupid* cr*p like that all the time. So maybe taking the persons age into account when addressing a situation like also helps.

 

[GinaWhipp]

You know it's funny (not ha-ha funny), I understand the concept of free speech. I also understand the concept of *for action there is an opposite or equal reaction*. So... while I am free to say anything I like there WILL BE an opposite or equal reaction to what I say. Choose wisely.

I am not easily offended. My doctor was having a stressful conversation with me while taking my blood pressure. She wanted to know does ANYTHING get me *hot* (meaning angry enough to raise my pressure). I listed all the things that trigger me, racism was not on the list and if I were to put it on the list it would be down towards the bottom. In my mind racism equals ignorance and I don't have time for ignorance. If you tend to *lean* that way, you are not invited to the barbecue. Oh, we can be *friends* and maybe even go out for coffee but the *friendship* stops there.

 

[Deleted member 147267]

Also remember I am a *tad* older than you.

You think? You said elsewhere " I didn't know his age when I initially say the video but he looked old enough to be MY Grandpa so..."
If that was tongue in cheek then I don't know, but any grandpa of mine would have to be at least 112. If my grandpa was alive he'd be about 135 or more. If you are older than me, it is not by much, I think.

 

[GinaWhipp]

@Micron
My Grandpa passed away when he was 100. We were hoping he would make it to his 101st birthday but he decided heaven couldn't wait. If he was alive today he would have been 112. Hmm, so perhaps you are older than me.

 

[Deleted member 147267]

Well, we can't really gauge anyone's age by their forefathers I suppose. It was the asterisks around "tad" that made me wonder where you figure I fit in. You might be older than me but if so, not by much. My money is on not.

 

[Steve R.]

We are in the middle of the French revolution folks. ... The mob is coming for you if you dare to even question them. ?

Less the guillotine so far. On another forum, I was chastized for being insenstive by using the word "hysteria". Evidently that word is not authorized by the mob in our new world of Newspeak. I've been raising that concern that we are repeating French Revolution for a while now.

 

[Jon]

MINNEAPOLIS — Nine members of the Minneapolis City Council — a veto-proof majority — pledged on Sunday to dismantle the Police Department, promising to create a new system of public safety in a city where law enforcement has long been accused of racism.

I just read the above. If they defund the police, which neighbourhoods will be affected the most if this wish is granted? How will you "police" the neighbourhoods without police? Someone comes to rob your home. Who do you call? There is an attempted murder. Do you call the social worker? If the argument is that you only have black police for black neighbourhoods, but just give them a different title, does that mean black police should be excluded from policing white neighbourhoods? Or is that racist?

The term shooting yourself in the foot comes to mind. Be careful what you wish for. Minneapolis is already rated one of the most violent cities in America. Do you want to remove protection from the victims of crime?

 

[Jon]

To put some balance into the picture, Justine Diamond, a white Australian lady, was shot dead by a black police officer in 2017, in Minneapolis. If the black community in that city believe that police brutality is tied to racism, why did they not riot and protest over this killing? Or is it that they don't care if a white person dies, only a black person? Do white lives not matter as much as black? Or do you judge police brutality based on skin colour? Is judging someone based on skin colour racist or not? Is it racist to only riot based on the victims skin colour?

Food for thought...

 

[Jon]

@GinaWhipp I think people will always have a subjective view based on skin colour. Not just skin colour, but also other factors. These include: country of origin, if you are local or not, age, height, sex, sexuality, accent, class, history (if known), job title, BMI, education, political affiliation, personality traits (both environmentally develop and genetic), strength, power (e.g. due to wealth or job or credentials etc).

Our minds are associative. Flash a word card up and it triggers a flood of instantaneous connections. Each neuron connects to about 10,000 adjacent neurons. Imagine the flood of brain impulses that happen in an instant. There is no time for conscious deliberative thought, or type 2 thinking, coined in the book Thinking Fast and Slow.

Let me posit some word associations some might have:

Black - poor, crime, drugs, danger, absent fathers, abortion

White - racist, privileged, wealthy, oppressors, white supremicists

Some will think the above, others won't. Some don't care. I say, lets all think a bit more. I'm not really sure where I am going with this, just thinking aloud I suppose.

Perhaps I am trying to say that things won't change overnight. Yes, thats it. Our minds are wired and it is hard to change the millions of connections we have formed in our minds. As you get older, you still have brain plasticity, or the ability to form new neural connections. But at the same time, they are harder to form compared to a younger person. That is just a biological fact.

These neuroligical associations are therefore deep rooted.

I read a book several years ago called "Up from Slavery", by Booker T. Washington. Gina, is that book known in the black community? It was insightful over the struggles the black community had to face back in the day. The progression of civil rights has come a long way since then, but I think it takes generations for a new set of wiring to be instilled in the brains of others. Your thoughts?

 

[Isaac]

I just read the above. If they defund the police, which neighbourhoods will be affected the most if this wish is granted? How will you "police" the neighbourhoods without police? Someone comes to rob your home. Who do you call? There is an attempted murder. Do you call the social worker? If the argument is that you only have black police for black neighbourhoods, but just give them a different title, does that mean black police should be excluded from policing white neighbourhoods? Or is that racist?

The term shooting yourself in the foot comes to mind. Be careful what you wish for. Minneapolis is already rated one of the most violent cities in America. Do you want to remove protection from the victims of crime?

The smarter liberals have been desperately trying to walk that phrase BACKWARD since about the same day it started. Unfortunately for them, it already took hold and the paint has already dried on a million protestors' signs.....and it's going to stick for a while. Now they say No, no, don't worry ... it doesn't REALLY mean defund the police, it means to reallocate a bit of funds away from the militarization of the police, to more social and health services, reimagining, etc. etc. They realize that literally "defund the police" is a non-starter--and in fact, will probably guarantee their defeat in November elections--if they really run on that platform or are seen to be doing so.

I just read an article about a professor at a prestigious USA university whose job is in jeapardy, entire career, as well as has been receiving death threats and had people share his home address online....For the following "racist crime": A number of students demanded that they be allowed extensions on their final exams so that they could have time to protest with their brothers. Well, this professor thought about it and decided not to allow it.
While at the same time, a minority professor from Stanford University wrote an email to all the students and affectionately quoted, as part of the inspirational email, an individual who is on the FBI's most wanted terrorist list for murdering a police officer and fleeing to Cuba. This professor is in no trouble at all for this.

The problem with this country is the pendulum swings to correct a legitimate wrong. When it swings it swings too far. Same story next time it swings back the other direction. Something legitimately needed correcting BUT a lot of the response is so over the top and wrong - which guess what, isn't going to unify people at all. What might have been a legitimate, successful movement, winning the hearts and minds of reasonable people, has turned (too often) into a "give me anything I ask for right now, and if you don't you're racist". Only result that has is to embitter and entrench both sides.

We do need some changes in this country. I hope cooler heads prevail in carrying the message, so that we can get something positive done about police brutality and criminal justice reform. Otherwise all we have done is succeed in moving two demographics of the country further apart.

 

[Jon]

I just read an article about a professor at a prestigious USA university whose job is in jeapardy, entire career, as well as has been receiving death threats and had people share his home address online....For the following "racist crime": A number of students demanded that they be allowed extensions on their final exams so that they could have time to protest with their brothers. Well, this professor thought about it and decided not to allow it.

I heard about that too. It is disgraceful. Lets bash all white people because of a non-racist incident. At the same time, lets ignore the non-racist incident that happened to Justine Diamond who was also killed by the same police department, as I mentioned a couple of posts back. And remember that she was not on drugs and being arrested for a crime. She was someone who dialled 911 for help, it was in a safe neighbourhood and she was barefoot and unarmed. Shot dead for seeking help. Black murder on white. Do I think it was because of race? Not in the slightest.

Do I think the left has gone bananas on this issue? Most definitely. People lose their heads and overreact to short term issues whipped up by a predominantly left-wing media (in the US) that accuses others of creating division, whilst trying to split the country down the middle. I find it very uncomfortable seeing many white people prostrating themselves on their knees, as though they are guilty of something they did not do. This public self-flagellation is like a kind of perversion, where you have white guilt and virtue signalling all mixed in together. They turn a blind eye to the ensuing chaos, risk to peoples lives due to Covid, robbing of already struggling businesses and violence against the innocent. I heard a press conference a few days ago where 750 police in total were injured. Did they deserve it, because one of their own went too far? I understand the black community doing the knee thing, because as a minority, they are clubbing together to protect their own interests and support one another.

Even The Guardian, a left wing paper which is highly intolerant of right-wing views, talked about how instantaneously the left swung from the perspective of "We must stay at home and self-isolate. Minorities are more at risk from Covid. To lets get out there and protest!" Those are my words, not a quote, but it is a fair representation of what The Guardian was saying. You can look it up yourselves. In essence, the protesters are killing their own in the community. Now is not the time to protest and riot.

If you are left-wing, and find the above offensive, I understand that. Any criticism can sting. There is a tendency of the left to want to call most things offensive, where the world has turned into a series of micro-aggressions. But just for a few minutes, put aside the defensiveness, actually think about what I have said, rather than using a pre-made lexicon of word weapons that roll off the tongue due to repeated use. I am happy to hear from anyone why my views are considered way off the mark. Maybe you don't think the media whips up division. Perhaps you believe that the circumstances deserve protests or riots, despite the inevitable increase in deaths due to spreading more Covid. "Its only a few more deaths. A drop in the ocean!" Maybe businesses are unimportant, because lets compare that with what happened to George Flloyd! Well, in that case, why don't we allow robbery at all times, because there are 41 murders per day in the US? Come on, tell me your thoughts! I am right-wing, but I am listening! (I'm sounding like Frasier now). You might think I am too far gone, a lost cause. But if so, at least explain to myself and other right-leaning members your perspective, so we can understand that gap between our views. And just try to be polite about it.

Or perhaps we should no-platform your views, as is customary in left-wing universities. It's not an approach I advocate, but this type of oppression is common.

 

[AccessBlaster]

The smarter liberals.

Those must be the one's running the schools in California, lets see I think we are 40th in the nation for the last 50 years

 

[Pat Hartman]

Someone comes to rob your home. Who do you call?

One mayor answered the question this way - "the question is a symptom of white privilege". Apparently she doesn't think that black people have a right to feel safe in their homes because they already know they can't call anyone.

Is judging someone based on skin colour racist or not?

Only if you are white. Blacks cannot be racist since racism is another symptom of white privilege.

Do white lives not matter as much as black?

No. At least not enough to riot about. Even some Black lives don't matter much as evidenced by all the black victims of the riots about which the mainstream media tells us nothing.

You really are out of the loop Jon I'm sure there is a dictionary somewhere that explains the newspeak.

Let me apologize in advance for being snarky about an important topic. But we are never going to come to grips with it until we can agree on basic facts and with the left changing the meaning of words on a daily basis, that isn't going to happen. Not to mention the hypocrisy of their positions (It's OK to kill babies but not murderers) and their projection (sorry, I used the wrong term in an earlier post) of their own issues onto others.
(i.e. the CNN word processor that "interprets" everything that Trump says)

Everyone seems to conveniently forget that the Democrats are the people who used to wear white robes and hoods and burn crosses. Now they dress all in black, cover their faces so we can't identify them while they break windows and loot stores and call the police pigs while they pretend to not be fascists. The Democrats were the people of segregation. Now they're the people of handouts and yet they've convinced three generations of black folk that they are the good guys to the effect that Democrats run most big crime ridden cities and keep getting reelected???? I don't understand how that happens. Then you end up with Democrats like Biden who say something like "you ain't black if you have to think about whom to vote for". How insulting and demeaning is that comment? It's not racist. It's downright demeaning because it implies that he "owns" the black vote. Yet, the mainstream media just ignores the implications. If a Republican said such a thing, there'd be a mob with nooses surrounding his house.

Some famous pundit once said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

 

[Jon]

You really are out of the loop Jon I'm sure there is a dictionary somewhere that explains the newspeak.You really are out of the loop Jon I'm sure there is a dictionary somewhere that explains the newspeak.

Actually Pat, I know all of the above. And then some. And I saw that mayor answer too. All my questions come from a rational discussion to see if I can get some rational answers.

 

[Pat Hartman]

Good luck with that. I'll shut up and look for them