Riots in the USA - just an excuse to let off energy?

>> To view the statistics from 2019, 370 whites were shot dead and 235 blacks <<
What is the ratio of whites to blacks? Is it greater or less than 370:235?
 
Jon,
What you are seeing is the hypocrisy of the left. It is perfectly OK to kill babies in the birth canal as the mother is in labor but murderers on death row must be saved at all costs. White men killed by black officers, that's OK too but a black man killed by a white officer is RACIST!!!!!! And we need to riot in the streets and burn down and loot black businesses because their lives don't matter and that is made very clear by celebrates posting bail for "protesters" but ignoring the victims of the "protesters". It is perfectly OK for the FBI to try to frame the incoming president for some made up crime because they don't like him. It's OK to deprive farms of water in northern California in the name of saving an endangered fish. It's OK for China and India to pollute all they want but we can't burn coal or drill for oil even though we are reducing our emissions every year despite dropping out of the totally unfair Paris accord. The idiocies go on and on and on and no one dares to challenge them because they'll be called a racist or a fish hater or whatever hateful term describes the crime of seeing the other side of an issue. The liberals can't win an argument on the facts so they virtue signal and call you names so they can win it because they FEEL more than you do.

We're in the 4th year of Trump Derangement Syndrome and it is making me crazy. The left has always assumed Republicans (I am not a Republican) are evil people with evil ideas whereas the Republicans think of Democrats as good people with bad ideas. There is quite a difference in those two mindsets and you can see it every single day in the media.

I used to think the Republicans were worse than the Democrats. I actually believed the "feeling". Now I see it for what it is- a blatant attempt to win by making you feel guilty since they can't win on the merits of their positions.

I posted a link to a website somewhere earlier that lets you filter police shootings. You can get down to race and unarmed which is the real issue (it gets you to about 30 killings split around 20/9 which is a very high ratio considering the population split is around 6/1)but you can't filter by the race of the officer so you can't tell how many black officers kill unarmed white men or even how many black officers kill black men. The left doesn't really care if the perp is waving a gun around. If he's black and a white cop shoots him before he shoots someone, it's racist. Facts just confuse the idiots and then they won't riot so we can't discuss things like Chauvin was probably not a racist.
 
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Jon said:
This thread is rather long and emotions here are probably running high. I think it was a few pages back that I asked a simple question: Where is the evidence that the death of George Flloyd was because of racism? We have worldwide riots because of it, all about racism.
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Sometimes, it takes time for thoughts to emerge and for people to react on this forum. You posted a very fundamental question that has been swept under the rug as this act was immediately broadcast to all as an example of racial abuse which may have drowned out any examination into the validity of the unsupported "racist" accusations. In answer to your question, this was not a racist incident.

In my prior post, I overlooked the case of David Dorn, a retired police Captain who was killed by looters, all apparently Black. Today, the media seems to have non-stop coverage on the memorial services that have occurred and continue into day. Were is the equal concern for David Dorn?

When it comes to violence in the Black community, those on the political left are deaf and blind to it. The only allowed mantra is that the Black community is a victim of white racism. Anyone speaking otherwise is forcibly condemned and is immediately ostracized. Those on the political left need to examine what the Black community can do for itself to end Black on Black violence. The political left, instead of blaming others, needs to examine the unfortunate death of David Dorn, at the hand of apparent Black looters who are also effectively destroying their own communities. The Black community is not necessarily the victim in all situations.


cheekybuddha said:
>> To view the statistics from 2019, 370 whites were shot dead and 235 blacks <<
What is the ratio of whites to blacks? Is it greater or less than 370:235?
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A reason for not citing statistics relates to the mental state of those involved. As of today, I have not heard of any evidence emerging that the use of unjustified deadly force by Mr. Chauvin involved any racial animosity. The citing of statistics can add some context, but since the actions of Mr. Chauvin do not appear to arise out of racial animosity one should not attempt to make this incident as proof of racism.
 
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Hmm, I guess I am still missing something because all I hear is *no justice, no peace*. I am seeing any form of police using excessive force being brought into the light. Yes, there is a focus on Black crime but it's not the *only* focus. There was, and still is, outrage over White folks getting *gassed*, shot with rubber bullets, beaten, pushed, etc. and even charges being brought in some cases.

As a side note, racism gets attached to any protest initiated by non-Whites. Something I figured out when I was in college when studying internment of Japanese-Americans. Good or bad, right or wrong it does and I have always believed (and I could be wrong here) it gets injected to create division. As long as we (and I use that term loosely) focus on ANYTHING but the real issue they (and I use that term loosely) can continue to *do business as usual*. I choose to pull back that curtain to *see* the *real* issue. I choose not to *take the bait*. I choose to fight to make America, the United States of America, the promise she was meant to be, she can be for all. I choose not to *erase* anyone from the people who first set foot on the great land to those are setting foot now. A divided house WILL FALL. A house built on a weak foundation WILL FALL. If we are going to rise we NEED to rise together. That does not mean you need to agree with my (generally speaking) point of view, I do not want you to. I need to *hear you* and you need to *hear me*. Right now, no one is listening, everyone (using this term loosely) is to busy *picking a side*. Another lesson I learned, "You will hear the voice of reason if you just listen.".

Is there a problem with Black on Black crime, sure there is. Is there a problem with White on White crime, sure there is. Is there a problem with White on Black and Black on White crime, sure there is. But when did *protect and serve* turn into *arrest and kill*? When did it become *beat and arrest*? When did it become okay to *abuse* the very citizens you are supposed to be sworn to protect?

After that 75 year old White man was shoved to ground, they not only left him there bleeding (okay, they called for medics), they lied in the report and the next day 57 of his Officers sworn to protect and serve the *people* quit the specialized unit in solidarity! Excuse me? I was speechless!

That said racism (everyone likes that word so I will stick with) is complicated and is a huge problem that will not be solved overnight AND has been around for 400 years carefully integrated into the fabric of America. There was an article by Warren Warren c.2010-2011 about teaching Race using the game of Monopoly. I found it an interesting read, you might also.
 
I don't know if it is just me or what, but if a line of police officers were walking in a line, commanding those in the way to get out, and I ran up to them and blocked them (which is what the 75 yr old man did), I would fully expect to get forcefully pushed out of the way, or worse. The shove was maybe unreasonably forceful, but people's expectations (what they think they can do to police who are giving them orders) really surprise me sometimes. If I RAN up to a line of police officers clearly ordering people away and defied them, I would expect something to happen to me. I don't know where people come from thinking they can behave like that. It's one thing to disagree with an officer of the law; it's another to run up and try to physically block them. I've watched the video numerous times, it is extremely hard to see anything close up during the final few seconds, but one thing is sure: A man disobeyed orders and ran up to a line of police officers and tried to block them. I would say both people were wrong here. The shove does seem excessive, but then again, anything else the officer had done (baton, stun) people would have said that was excessive too. It seems excessive but not by a whole lot. I would expect to be forcefully pushed out of the way if it were me. I'm not defending everything that was done....but trying to see it balanced. His age was unfortunate, but it would also be silly to expect an officer to evaluate people's precise age in the milliseconds they have to make decisions. If I were a 75 year old man I wouldn't be running around lunging at police officers, either. Both people did something stupid here.

These "protests" have given people a lot of ideas about things being OK and getting away with things that under normal circumstances people wouldn't dream of. Me personally, if I threw bricks or explosives at a police officer, I'd expect to be shot dead in self defense, but these people expect to be gently handcuffed and sat on a sofa. Different responses to authority, I guess.
 
@Pat Hartman
Well, truth matters. Why put *he tripped and fell* which, IMO, indicates you had no *hand* in it? Why not put, *we pushed him out of the way and he fell. We then called medics as he became injured upon the fall*. Truth matters. Bad things happen, we all make mistakes, we all have over reacted and done something stupid but, again, truth matters. And honesty matters. If you had to *hide* it, misrepresent it, then you know you did wrong.
 
Is there a problem with Black on Black crime, sure there is. Is there a problem with White on White crime, sure there is. Is there a problem with White on Black and Black on White crime, sure there is. But when did *protect and serve* turn into *arrest and kill*? When did it become *beat and arrest*? When did it become okay to *abuse* the very citizens you are supposed to be sworn to protect?
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I agree with you on the above statement, and my point is that George Flloyd was about police brutality, not racism. I would say the same thing if it was a black police officer doing it to a white guy.

I am not sure though if you think it was racist what happened. And if it is, do you have any evidence for it?

After that 75 year old White man was shoved to ground, they not only left him there bleeding (okay, they called for medics), they lied in the report and the next day 57 of his Officers sworn to protect and serve the *people* quit the specialized unit in solidarity! Excuse me? I was speechless!
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I saw the video clip and I was disgusted with it. It triggered more emotions in me than the death of George Flloyd. I think the reason is that because I can associate with looking after the elderly and falls. I was there on numerous occasions when my mother had a fall and broke her back once, her arm another time and her hip on two occasions. I could empathise. Likewise, with George Flloyd, perhaps you have seen racist police brutality against blacks and so could empathise better than I could. But at the same time, I take great care to think clearly about what I see as reality. In the case of the old man shoved to the ground, it doesn't matter what colour the officer was, there appeared to be no racial element, unless there is evidence for it. I would also add that George Flloyd was being arrested for a crime while on drugs and had a violent criminal record, while this was an elderly man who had done nothing wrong. Sadly, it went badly wrong for George Flloyd. I do not know what happened to the elderly man, but I did see blood coming out of his head.

So my position is this whole worldwide premise for a riot is based on flawed assumptions, and perhaps pent up frustration from Covid. Show me a history of racist conduct by the police officer in question, and my view may modify. The whole thing about justice is that it is based on evidence, not mob rule. Feeling angry about something does not make it true.

The reason I would like to get views from the left leaning, Democrats, Socialists, those from the black community, is because I want to understand the gap between what they think and what I think. I know racism is complex. But why is racism coming into the picture at all? This is police brutality.

In my mind, I am thinking about Venn diagrams. I'm trying to put one circle over the other, but I think with age my brain has shrunken a little bit so I am struggling. Oh what the hell, let me create a mini diagram!

1591724578047.png


This is my thinking. You have racism and police brutality. They overlap, sometimes. But not all the time. It appears that George Flloyd's case is in the Police brutality circle that does not overlap into Racism. Yet people are deliberately conflating something, making it a logical fallacy. What are others thoughts about this perspective?
 
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@Jon

Oh, I thought I was clear but perhaps not. Nope, I don't believe this is *about* racism. I think it's been injected as a form of a distraction. I am not denying racism exists just that this incident is not the *calling card* for it.

I watched that video and all I saw was *everybody's* 75 year old Grandpa.

I watched that video and I saw a man die for an *alleged* fake $20.00 dollar bill.

I say stop making it about racism, stop taking the bait, look behind the curtain. (Yep, from the Wizard of Oz. I really love that story, even more when you study the *real* story behind it.)
 
@GinaWhipp We are completely on the same page. I see it as a hysteria. I think most people have just stopped thinking.
 
*no justice, no peace*
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I know those are not your words, they're the words of the "protesters". But do they really expect us to drag Chauvin out of his cell and string him up like a pinata in the public square????? No matter how guilty the man is, he still gets a trial since last I noticed, this is the United States of America and a trial could easily take months to prepare. Are we looking at another summer like 1968? Are the mobs going to continue to destroy the life's work of poor people (black and white or other) because their lives don't matter? I feel like I'm in the middle of the French Revolution - OFF WITH HIS HEAD - which was very different from our revolution as anyone who knows anything about history knows.

I didn't see the video of the elderly man getting shoved. I'm guessing that the officer didn't register the man's age, just that he was a protester in the way (the old man seems to have been an agitator. I would never go to a riot no matter how strongly I felt due to the danger of becoming a causality but I guess he had a mission). Unless of course you want to assume that a young officer would deliberately shoved an old man hard enough to send him to the ground out of hatred. I never assume the worst of someone, even if I don't like them. Maybe if everyone stopped assuming that other people had evil motives, we would have fewer problems.

Before I lived in Kuwait (and learned all about the Palestinian "problem"), I could never understand why people fought. Why countries fought except to capture territory. Why didn't people just talk? But after living there, it occurred to me that most disagreements are caused by misunderstandings. Remember what I said earlier about the Democrats firmly believing that Republicans are evil people with evil ideas. That's what happens when you make assumptions about the MOTIVATION of others. You can't see into another person's soul. You don't know what they're thinking. Think about how much less hatred there would be directed at Trump if the talking heads would refrain from using the CNN Word Processor to give the public the "reporter's" interpretation of what was said.
 
@Pat Hartman
There is no dragging out string him up. A man is dead and it *appeared* nothing was happening, he hadn't even been put on desk duty until the video was released. Really? Of course he deserves a trial but so do George Floyd.

I think you are referring to the looting when you say *destroy the work of poor people*. If so, again I say, I don't agree with it, I don't support but I get it. Grief and anger come out in different ways and what is happening is truly unfortunate.

As for the 75 year old man, um, you can't miss the fact that he is up in years. I didn't know his age when I initially say the video but he looked old enough to be MY Grandpa so no way I'm going to believe they did not know he was elderly. There was no riot, please view the video. I do not think the Officer did it with malice but truth matters. Why lie about it if you just made a mistake? Truth matters.

I think if you review my posts you will see we are basically saying the same thing, everyone needs to listen and then let's talk. (Again, don't watch televised news since *forever*. I could care less what they have to say or not say.) I will also repeat, this is not about politics, THAT box is too small and it's bigger than that, way bigger.
 
I think part of the problem might be that the young underestimate how frail the old can be. They make assumptions based on how robust they themselves are. But people lose balance way more easily when they get older. Less muscle mass in the thighs, the ear canals dry up leading to worse balance. Eye sight goes south. Hearing poorer. OMG, all that is just around the corner for me!!
 
Jon said:
I think part of the problem might be that the young underestimate how frail the old can be.
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I think part of the problem might be that the young underestimate how frail Democracy can be. Once we go down that rabbit hole, nobody will be happy. But maybe this is the goal?
 
Nice pivot. :D
 
I really like what this guy has to say. He also says we shouldn't even be saying who's lives matter. All human lives matter. My sentiments exactly.

 
@Jon
Haven't you heard? We're not allowed to say that any more. Newscasters have been fired from their jobs for simply responding with those 3 simple words. Thou shalt bend the knee to the mob, or thou shalt be fired.
 
GinaWhipp said:
Nope, I don't believe this is *about* racism. I think it's been injected as a form of a distraction.
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I've been pretty busy wrangling grand kids, so I've only skimmed the last few day's posts. Apologies in advance if I've misinterpreted something in my skimming.

Gina, is the above about the George Floyd riots, or something else? In your post 67 it seemed you were saying that racism was the root cause of those. Or am I goofed up?

Someone (Jon?) mentioned about the danger of being so sensitized to something that you "see" it everywhere. That is certainly a danger with regard to racism. I'm not saying it's prevalent, but it's out there, I've seen it. I've seen it in both black people and white people in interracial relationships. If somebody looks at them crosseyed, it's because of racism. Please understand I'm not saying racism doesn't exist; it does and it's deplorable. I know people who have experienced all the things Gina described and more. I'm simply saying that it is possible to see it where it doesn't exist.

I had other thoughts but am now being summoned to go grab dinner for the gang. Gina, I was at a couple of MVP summits before you went (I think), and was/am sorry I never got the chance to meet you in person.
 
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