Shootings in US schools

[Rich]

Seek and ye shall find... just kidding. Sounds fair....I actually post links when confronted with requests for them, and usually post them anyway. Though, in your defense, it IS much easier to use your signature quote.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/3/21/205139.shtml
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment071800c.html

If you dont like those, check out the Telegraph, its UK, and says the same thing. There is a link inside the second one that leads you right to it. Also, the Fear in Britain is a book, and I dont have it on .pdf, but you can find it at your local library, if it isnt censored.

Both your links are American right wing sites, try again

 

[Matt Greatorex]

Been staying out of this one, but couldn't resist pointing a couple of things out.

Firstly, your opinions appear to be based on data that's - at best - five and half years out of date. A hell of a lot happens in more than half a decade, so I fail to see the relevance of any of your comments on the current situation. If we're taking all information from the same period as still being valid, one could ask why the US is persecuting Osama Bin Laden, since the Twin Towers are still standing?

-Handgun crime rose 40% between 1997 and 2000, the four years following the ban. ("Illegal Firearms in the UK" Centre for Defense Studies at King's College, July 2001)

Back in 2001, that may have been the case. As pointed out, however, it is no longer 2001, and hasn't been for quite some time. According to the latest British Government figures I could find:
(http://www.connected.gov.uk/facts/guncrime/index.html)

"There were 2,659 firearm robberies in 2004/05 (4% of all robbery offences), a 9% decrease from the previous year.

Handguns, including imitation handguns, were used in 4,326 offences during 2004/05, a decrease of 16% from 2003/04. Shotguns were used in 590 offences, an 18% decrease from the previous year.

There were 412 firearm offences that resulted in serious injury in 2004/057, a 6% decrease compared to 2003/04."

There were some increases, but it's still not quite the same as the increase reported back then.

Also, I figured out why you have such low gun violence...

-British Police only record gun crimes in terms of convictions. Unsolved crimes don't make it into the log. ("Fear in Britain" July 2000)

Also from the same source

"Firearms are taken to be involved in an incident if they are fired, used as a blunt instrument against a person, or used in a threat."

I think that pretty much means that gun crimes are reported as gun crimes, whatever the case was back in 2000.

Oh, one more thing: The British's gun ban has proved such an unmitigated disaster that, when coupled with sentencing practices that can be described as nothing less than criminally insane, has helped to create a nation whose contact crime victimization rate is nearly double that of the United States. (Dutch Justice Ministry Survey, 1999) They actually have child psychologists who specialize in the trauma suffered as a result of repeated home invasion robberies.

Oh well, if a seven year old Dutch survey said it, it must be both true and still applicable then, eh?

Even when you shoot, many of you can't hit anything. Trust me, I have seen quite a few on the firing range

Once again, if we follow that rationale and allow personal anecdotal evidence to equate to a provable generalisation, many Americans can't swim. This is based on the fact that I've met some who couldn't. Plus, how many is 'many'? Unless you've spent a considerable part of your life watching whole busloads of Brits firing guns, the comment is a bit meaningless. I'm pretty sure many Americans are bad shots, so what? It doesn't mean they all are.

 

[Matt Greatorex]

If you dont like those, check out the Telegraph, its UK, and says the same thing.

The Telegraph article is a decade out of date, even if it was accurate at the time.

 

[Worley]

Violent burglaries are rare here, but yes we don't want the gun ho culture here thanks

Might explain this....
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_bur_percap-crime-burglaries-per-capita

UK have almost double the burglary rates of the US.

 

[Vassago]

Might explain this....
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_bur_percap-crime-burglaries-per-capita

UK have almost double the burglary rates of the US.

.

Yes, that's per capita, but did you check out the totals?

 

[Rich]

Might explain this....
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_bur_percap-crime-burglaries-per-capita

UK have almost double the burglary rates of the US.

You're clutching at straws again

 

[Worley]

Firstly, your opinions appear to be based on data that's - at best - five and half years out of date. A hell of a lot happens in more than half a decade.

Quite true, yet the war in Iraq began half a decade ago, and Rich uses that about every 7 posts as a reference to his opinion that the US is warmongering. Rich has also used references from 1992, and you never bothered to chastise his for his out of date facts. I suppose I'll take that as meaning I am to be held to a higher standard than he, as a testiment to my usually much more solid points, and that is a compliment of sorts, lol.

There were some increases, but it's still not quite the same as the increase reported back then.

You are right, only 31% increase now...and that is cumulative from the previous increases.
Here are the statistics you didn't bother to post:
"-In 2004/05 there were a provisional 10,979 firearm offences, an increase of 6% since 2003/04. The number of offences has risen each year since 1997/98

-Firearms were involved in 1,206 more serious incidents of violence against the person (other than homicide) in 2004/05, the same proportion (3%) as in 2003/04. Less than half of one per cent (0.5%) of other offences of violence against the person involved firearms in 2004/05, though the 4,568 offences recorded represents a 31% increase from 2003/04.

-Firearms were used in 73 (8.5%) homicides in 2004/05, five more than the previous year."

I am not trying to be a pain, but you have to admit that compaired to the 9% decrease in armed robbery, a 31% increase in gun violence overall is freaking INSANE in that short of a time. If gun bans in the UK were this counterproductive...what do you expect the US to do to solve its problems?

Oh well, if a seven year old Dutch survey said it, it must be both true and still applicable then, eh?[/QUOTE]

Dutch slams are always funny, you can have that one, lol.

Once again, if we follow that rationale and allow personal anecdotal evidence to equate to a provable generalisation, many Americans can't swim. This is based on the fact that I've met some who couldn't. Plus, how many is 'many'? Unless you've spent a considerable part of your life watching whole busloads of Brits firing guns, the comment is a bit meaningless. I'm pretty sure many Americans are bad shots, so what? It doesn't mean they all are.

I said many...not all. I saw a few phenominal shots in the bunch. (about 30 of them were firing). It wasnt so much the amount of individuals I saw that was bad, it was the acceptance of the low range scores as normal and acceptable, and the poor groupings as the norm, and accepted as such. I generally respect the Brit military. I got my ass chewed by a Brit officer in a training mission for answering a question asked by my platoon leader while he was talking. I wont lie, he put me in my damn place, lol. I respect the discipline of the groups I saw, for the most part.

 

[Worley]

.

Yes, that's per capita, but did you check out the totals?

Its per capita because we have a much higher population, so the closest way to fairly compare is per capita...or how much crime per 1000 people.

 

[Rich]

Its per capita because we have a much higher population, so the closest way to fairly compare is per capita...or how much crime per 1000 people.

In that case compare the gun crime per capita between the US and UK

 

[Worley]

You're clutching at straws again

You stated that you don't retaliate against intruders with firearms and such, and my point is that if you hit a few in the cranium with a golf club, they wont come back, lol. You dont retaliate...and you have double the burglary rates we have...we do retaliate, and have a signifigantly lower rate. You wouldnt even consider breaking into a home if you knew what happened when you were caught by the owner doing so. Besides...almost double the rates...thats not a straw I am grasping at, Mister, thats an oak tree....and they are not quite as hard to wrap your arms around.

 

[Rich]

You stated that you don't retaliate against intruders with firearms and such, and my point is that if you hit a few in the cranium with a golf club, they wont come back, lol. You dont retaliate...and you have double the burglary rates we have...we do retaliate, and have a signifigantly lower rate. You wouldnt even consider breaking into a home if you knew what happened when you were caught by the owner doing so. Besides...almost double the rates...thats not a straw I am grasping at, Mister, thats an oak tree....and they are not quite as hard to wrap your arms around.

No you're totally missing the point, if we armed ourselves with guns then the criminal element would enter armed to the teeth, the UK would turn into a blood bath just like Iraq and America, no thanks

 

[Worley]

In that case compare the gun crime per capita between the US and UK

We established about 300 posts ago that we have a gun violence problem in the US that is signifigantly higher than in the UK. You lead the thread in a different direction, then, when you begin to lose, you quickly attempt to get the thread back on track, all the while carefully avoiding answering any valid point anyone else has made. Great timing...on your part. So, once again I ask you, and hope to get an answer: If gun bans in the UK were that counterproductive (31% increase from 2003/2004 to 2004/2005)...what do you expect the US to do to solve its problems? Its not as easy as gun bans. They didnt work for you, and they wont work for us. Or do you plan on complaining for another 14,700 posts with absolutely no productive conversation?
The only people in your country who can afford to arm themselves to the teeth are the burglars...with your money. Besides, I didnt say shoot them, anyhow, you just assumed. I said hit em in the brain with a golf club. Pay attention, lol.

 

[Rich]

You lead the thread in a different direction, l.

Where ?

 

[Rich]

If gun bans in the UK were that counterproductive (31% increase from 2003/2004 to 2004/2005).

Percentages mean nothing on their own if the base figure was only 1, post figures like I do
You do realise that you and Jenny have driven me to drink this evening

 

[jsanders]

Percentages mean nothing on their own if the base figure was only 1, post figures like I do
You do realise that you and Jenny have driven me to drink this evening

How did I do that?

 

[Worley]

Where ?

Which time...we can start with random religious comments that had nothing to do with the current topic or the thread. I dont even have to go back very far.
http://www.access-programmers.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=541624&postcount=654
http://www.access-programmers.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=541750&postcount=660
Note that you and Col are the only ones talking religion here, and it moves towards no serious point. It's only bait, so you can call christianity a fairy tale as many times as possible while you argue with people you blatantly and purposefully offend.
Here is a random shot by you that has nothing to do with the post where you randomly say things about how America isnt greifing over the Amish children. Once again, no point was made, just a non thread related shot.
http://www.access-programmers.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=541760&postcount=664
Heres another spot where you make a random comment about Americans being money focused, right after Col did the same.
http://www.access-programmers.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=541915&postcount=672
Need I go on? Its pointless, but I will.
You helped chase the thread onto 5th gen Jets, then another random comment about the American "gun blazing".
http://www.access-programmers.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=542017&postcount=704
Another random shot about the US backing themselves up with....well, noone really knows what you were talking about here. I am sure its a random jab, however.
http://www.access-programmers.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=542024&postcount=708
And here is the reply that helped pull the thread off into burglary, along with some cute "gun ho" comment.
http://www.access-programmers.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=542043&postcount=720
Nine posts later, you lose your momentum and attempt a recovery of thread integrity.
http://www.access-programmers.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=542059&postcount=729

Everyone does it, but not everyone asks "where?" with a cute little confused smiley.

 

[Rich]

How did I do that?

By keep posting inaccurate and inflamatory remarks

 

[Worley]

Percentages mean nothing on their own if the base figure was only 1, post figures like I do
You do realise that you and Jenny have driven me to drink this evening

I seriously am sorry, lol. I dont mean to actually bother you much, I'll sign off for the evening, and stop bothering you until tomorrow. Have a great night! Don't over do it, you'll be even more irritated when you wake up around noon, lol.

 

[Rich]

Everyone does it, but not everyone asks "where?" with a cute little confused smiley.

You're still clutching here Woe, I'm merely responding not leading, try again

 

[Rich]

I seriously am sorry, lol. I dont mean to actually bother you much, I'll sign off for the evening, and stop bothering you until tomorrow. Have a great night! Don't over do it, you'll be even more irritated when you wake up around noon, lol.

I've already gotten a headache, but it's Jenny's fault, don't feel too guilty.
I'll be awake long before noon by the way, only kids sleep that long