Should Abortion be Allowed?

[dan-cat]

If a woman wants an abortion, that means she does not want to have the baby, clearly we can all agree on that, yes? So the next question is, who should be able to make the decision if she is allowed to terminate that pregnancy? Who makes the decision that she must carry a pregnancy for 9 months?

I'll just address this point.

The reason for law is to uphold a standard of our notion of ethics.

It cannot be left to the individual because then selfish reasons would tend to override this standard and ethics would quickly be dispensed with.

In this case, the way our rationale works, the potentiality of things, makes up a significant part of the way we think. Law is there to take into account of this fact as well as the rights of the mother. Law tries to uphold the rights of the individual but also protect the very method of how we come to conclude what is right and what is wrong. Roe vs Wade attempted to balance these two points.

Sometime ago I asked a question to someone here, I can't remember who, that I never got a question to.

If a woman continually becomes pregnant and continually has an abortion. Is this irresponsible? If so, what is the incremental factor that eventually tips x number of abortions into irresponsibility?

 

[dan-cat]

I notice nobody commented on the fact that the planet is already overun by an obviously unsustainable population of humans.

Again your approach to be devoid of empathy to the individual is insufficient when considering what makes up the rationale of a human.

Do we really think that the "Scrooge" view on "the surplus population" is an adequate framework to build our ethics on?

 

[Adam Caramon]

If a woman continually becomes pregnant and continually has an abortion. Is this irresponsible? If so, what is the incremental factor that eventually tips x number of abortions into irresponsibility?

If you get pregnant due to a lack of knowledge or preparedness, that is irresponsible, even the first time.

But what is the point of asking this? Do you feel once a woman has reached a point where her actions are clearly irresponsible, that she should be denied an abortion and now be forced to carry that baby to term?

A better question, would you want to be the baby that your mother wanted to abort but was unable to due to governmental regulations?

 

[dan-cat]

But what is the point of asking this?

I wish to explore what makes it irresponsible and to ensure whatever it is, it is take into account on arguments for and against abortion.

 

[Adam Caramon]

I wish to explore what makes it irresponsible and to ensure whatever it is, it is take into account on arguments for and against abortion.

So once a woman is deemed irresponsible, you want that to have an effect on her ability to obtain an abortion?

 

[Brianwarnock]

If you get pregnant due to a lack of knowledge or preparedness, that is irresponsible, even the first time.

This is a little harsh

Brian

 

[Brianwarnock]

Again your approach to be devoid of empathy to the individual is insufficient when considering what makes up the rationale of a human.

Do we really think that the "Scrooge" view on "the surplus population" is an adequate framework to build our ethics on?

What is a "Scrooge" view ?

Brian

 

[rodmc]

I aint reading 406 replies, so here's my take

Yes, it should be allowed, but not as a form of birth control and that does indeed happen an awful lot.

 

[dan-cat]

What is a "Scrooge" view ?

Brian

I was referring to the part in A Christmas Carol where Scrooge says people should go ahead and die and decrease the surplus population.

Basically to have zero empathy to the individual in favor of cold arithmetic.

Edit: Here's Captain Picard sharing the same point of view

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvSaDS7M4f8

 

[dan-cat]

So once a woman is deemed irresponsible, you want that to have an effect on her ability to obtain an abortion?

Perhaps, it depends on what it is that makes it irresponsible.

As has happened before, I'm met with a certain reticence to answer the question.

 

[rodmc]

Can someone define "irresponsible" in this context

As an example, take a woman who uses abortion as a means of birth control, that in my book is irresponsible, if she continues that cycle without taking precautions then why should I the taxpayer fund that? (I understand I live in the UK and we have health care free at the point of access via the NHS which is paid fro via Tax and this is not the case in other countries)

 

[Adam Caramon]

This is a little harsh

It may be harsh, but that doesn't mean it is untrue. We all live with the consequences of our mistakes, which is why it is incredibly important for parents to instill good values in their children.

 

[Adam Caramon]

Perhaps, it depends on what it is that makes it irresponsible.

That sounds like waffling.

As has happened before, I'm met with a certain reticence to answer the question.

Why? Are you afraid your answer will be taken out of context or misconstrued? Are you afraid your answer will not be popular? Do you not have an answer?

 

[Brianwarnock]

I must be reading a different thread, I thought that it was dan was complaining that you were not answering his question.

If a woman continually becomes pregnant and continually has an abortion. Is this irresponsible? If so, what is the incremental factor that eventually tips x number of abortions into irresponsibility?

Brian

 

[Brianwarnock]

It may be harsh, but that doesn't mean it is untrue. We all live with the consequences of our mistakes, which is why it is incredibly important for parents to instill good values in their children.

But you stated that it was irresponsible to make a mistake due to lack of knowledge, that seems very harsh and has nothing todo with instilling good values, and having to live with the consequences doesn't equate to the action being irresponsible 100% of the time.

Brian

 

[Adam Caramon]

I must be reading a different thread, I thought that it was dan was complaining that you were not answering his question.

Now I am confused. Are you saying I didn't answer dan's question, or that my answer was not satisfactory?

But you stated that it was irresponsible to make a mistake due to lack of knowledge, that seems very harsh and has nothing todo with instilling good values, and having to live with the consequences doesn't equate to the action being irresponsible 100% of the time.

To clarify, when I said that it was irresponsible to make a mistake due to a lack of knowledge, I was referring specifically to becoming pregnant. Unless someone doesn't have the mental faculties to know that sex can lead to pregnancy, then becoming pregnant/getting someone pregnant due to lack of knowledge/preparedness is irresponsible IMO.

Pregnancy is a very serious matter that has life-changing consequences. If you're not taking steps to prevent pregnancy, assuming that is your goal, and pregnancy occurs, how could it be anything but irresponsible?

 

[dan-cat]

I must be reading a different thread, I thought that it was dan was complaining that you were not answering his question.



Brian

You're right Brian, Adam is struggling to hold the line of the conversation.

 

[dan-cat]

That sounds like waffling.

No it concerns the second part of the question which you failed to answer.

If so, what is the incremental factor that eventually tips x number of abortions into irresponsibility?

What is it that makes it irresponsible?

 

[Adam Caramon]

If so, what is the incremental factor that eventually tips x number of abortions into irresponsibility?

There is no incremental factor, 1 unplanned pregnancy due to lack of knowledge is irresponsible. 1 abortion to "fix" that irresponsibility is irresponsible.

I have to say it's quite dishonest of you to admit that you don't want to answer a question that I am asking, but then you're complaining that I am not answering your question.

What is the necessity of this kind of language?

You're right Brian, Adam is struggling to hold the line of the conversation.

It seems as if you're being intentionally rude.

 

[Brianwarnock]

Adam lets start again
I think that you and I both agree that
1 Getting pregnant when do not want to is irresponsible
2 Abortion as a means of birth control is wrong

Where we disagree is that you state that getting pregnant due to lack of knowledge is irresponsible. I don't see how we can state that nobody will be in this position, perhaps difficult to conceive this today but to say

1 unplanned pregnancy due to lack of knowledge is irresponsible

.

Is IMHO quite wrong

Brian