The Qur'an

[aziz rasul]

to answer my silly doubts.

Your words.

 

[pbaldy]

because you fool,

Adam, I'm wondering how your priest/preacher/God would feel about your calling people names. Not favorably I'm guessing. You can treat people with respect even if you disagree with them.

 

[aziz rasul]

Unless, of course, you give any credence to the Book of Mormon.

The Qur'an is the LAST Testament from God, so the Book of Mormon doesn't count as it came afterwards.

Beware of discounting it, though, because that opens the way for us to discount the Quran for the same reason that you use to discount the Book of Mormon.

Which you have already done.

But YOU have miserably failed to show that this knowledge was NOT available at the time.

But if the microscope wasn't invented then, how would I prove a negative? It's YOU that aren't prepared to admit the facts and are running away from them. Carry on running.

The Qur'an, IMHO IS Divine. We are free to accept or reject it as we wish.

There will be no place to HIDE in the Hereafter on the Day of Judgement.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Because there will BE no day of judgment, and therefore hiding will be rather pointless.

 

[aziz rasul]

Because there will BE no day of judgment, and therefore hiding will be rather pointless.

Closer and closer to mankind comes their Reckoning: yet they heed not and they turn away.
Qur'an 21:1

12. And when Hellfire is set ablaze
13. And when Paradise is brought near,
14. A soul will [then] know what it has brought [with it].
Qur'an 81:12-4

So, by the Lord of the heavens and the earth, it (the Day of Recompense) is a reality, as sure as the fact that you (can) speak.
Qur'an 51:23

And brought [within view], that Day, is Hell - that Day, man will remember, but what good to him will be the remembrance?
Qur'an 89:23

71. And those who disbelieved will be driven to Hell in groups until, when they reach it, its gates are opened and its keepers will say, "Did there not come to you messengers from yourselves, reciting to you the verses of your Lord and warning you of the meeting of this Day of yours?" They will say, "Yes, but the word of punishment has come into effect upon the disbelievers.
72. [To them] it will be said, "Enter the gates of Hell to abide eternally therein, and wretched is the residence of the arrogant."
73. But those who feared their Lord will be driven to Paradise in groups until, when they reach it while its gates have been opened and its keepers say, "Peace be upon you; you have become pure; so enter it to abide eternally therein," [they will enter].
Qur'an 39:71-3

 

[The_Doc_Man]

The Qur'an is the LAST Testament from God, so the Book of Mormon doesn't count as it came afterwards.

The contribution of Muhammad came after the end of the Bible so it doesn't count. The Bible had already said that whoever adds to or takes away from the books is wrong and will be condemned. DEUT 4:2 "Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you." And a different but equal warning in REV 22:18-19, "(18) I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. (19) And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll."

Since the Bible is supposedly included in the Quran, that means that it contains its own proof that Muhammad was plagued and lost his share in the tree of life in the Holy City.

 

[aziz rasul]

The contribution of Muhammad came after the end of the Bible so it doesn't count.

Wrong, the Qur'an says that it is the final message, it is on that basis that the book of Mormon doesn't count. The Bible, doesn't say that a new Scripture will not come afterwards. That's the difference. I should have mentioned that in my original reply.

The Bible verses you are mentioning refer to the individual Scripture itself. The Rabbis indeed changed the Torah as I have already said in this thread. That's why those who changed the earlier Scriptures will have to answer for it.

Since the Bible is supposedly included in the Quran,

Some aspects of past history and lessons are included by the same God in His final Book the Qur'an, which has remained unchanged since it was compiled and memorized. So the whole Bible per say is not included in the Qur'an so your last assertion doesn't make any sense. The Qur'an makes corrections to what is in the Bible. For example God does NOT rest as the Bible suggests. Moses (peace be upon him) did NOT break the TEN Commandments tablets as the Bible does, the Qur'an does not contain any contradictions as the Bible does, etc. etc.

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

There are some rather stunning encodings of numbers to words and characters that authenticate the accuracy of the English translation and overall approval of Gods signature

I'm not following, and have no intention of getting deeply involved in this ..... So I'm stopping here!!!!

 

[conception_native_0123]

You can treat people with respect even if you disagree with them.

I agree with you Paul. I take it back. thanks for correcting me.

 

[conception_native_0123]

I will keep reminding you of HELL

great. more images in my head to look forward to! =(

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I have reached the conclusion that it is clearly hopeless. Aziz, with no disrespect intended, it is pointless to argue with you. You have convinced me that to argue religion with you is a lost cause because you have been totally brainwashed by Islam. I wish you well but have wasted enough time.

People comment on how a religious message is often intended to try to save someone from a terrible fate. For that reason, I acknowledge your intent. I have to say, "Thanks but no, thanks." You see, my messages are ALSO intended to save people from a terrible fate. Because if I am right, then your religion robs you of the only thing you really have on this world... time. Time wasted in prayer and ritual dedicated to a non-existent being whose very description makes it impossible for God to exist.

Good luck, Aziz, in your future.

 

[Mike Krailo]

I asked whether you believed that the Bible has any contradictions, you gave no answer.

I gave you something better to focus on that cannot just be waved away as something other than God did himself. BTW, there are no contradictions in the bible, I have seen all the one's that Muslims love to point out as if that somehow proves the bible is corrupted, but no such corruption exists. The gospels are very credible testimonies preserved by the holy spirit. And although they were not recorded right away, the oral tradition back then was very strong and people had very sharp memories unlike the weak minded people today that don't even know their own phone number without looking it up in their phone. The Quran on the other hand was written much later and has no accurate account of of the most important event in all of human history. The book of Hebrews was written way before the Quran.

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

21 And having an high priest over the house of God;

22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised

24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

So your response to the fact that there is coded math algorithm tied into the bible's English KJV version as already pointed out is man made? Are you even paying attention? It's amazing to me that anyone even found the coding let alone that it's there and the staggering statistical impossibility of it just being a random thing.

 

[conception_native_0123]

you have been totally brainwashed by Islam

LIKE.

 

[Mike Krailo]

I'm not following, and have no intention of getting deeply involved in this ..... So I'm stopping here!!!!

There is nothing deep about it at all. It took me 20 minutes to confirm all except the last encoding that turned up the 77777 number that runs through an over all search of all the key words based on the first and last verses of the bible. You have to have that searchable bible software which I do not have. I thought the video was pretty straight forward though. What are the odds that this is some random occurrence?

 

[Galaxiom]

What are the odds that this is some random occurrence?

Far greater than the odds of there being gods behind it.

 

[aziz rasul]

great. more images

In your case, I would rather God did the talking. That way, you can't, on the Day of Judgement, say you were never warned of the impending DOOM. as you clearly have been brainwashed against Islam.

50. And the companions of the Fire will call to the companions of Paradise, "Pour upon us some water or from whatever Allah has provided you." They will say, "Indeed, Allah has forbidden them both to the disbelievers."
51. Who took their religion as distraction and amusement and whom the worldly life deluded." So today We will forget them just as they forgot the meeting of this Day of theirs and for having rejected Our verses.
52. And We had certainly brought them a Book which We detailed by knowledge - as guidance and mercy to a people who believe.
53. Do they await except its result? The Day its result comes those who had ignored it before will say, "The messengers of our Lord had come with the truth, so are there [now] any intercessors to intercede for us or could we be sent back to do other than we used to do?" They will have lost themselves, and lost from them is what they used to invent.
Qur'an 7:50-53

 

[aziz rasul]

because you have been totally brainwashed by Islam.

You have been brainwashed against Islam. I have tried to save you from reaching the fire, but to no avail.

As far as the rituals are concerned, which you believe is a waste of time, they are a method by which we submit to God and thus enter Paradise. Those who enter Hell won't think it's a waste of time then.

Salah (prayer) does not simply require praying at the correct times, but to temporaily disconnect from the world and connect body and soul daily, at all times of the day, with God through prayer in a submissive, respectful, concentrated (khushoo) and devoted way, not proud or arrogant. This then has the effect to increase the piety and God-consciousness (taqwa) of the Muslim and hence acts as a shield from committing sins, insha-allaah.

O ye who believe! bow down, prostrate yourselves, and adore your Lord; and do good; that ye may prosper.
Qur’an – Surah al-Hajj (The Pilgrimage) 22:77 See also Psalm 95:6.

O mankind! Worship your Lord, Who hath created you and those before you, so that ye may ward off (evil).
Qur’an - Surah al-Baqara (The Heifer) 2:21

And be steadfast in prayer and regular in charity: And whatever good ye send forth for your souls before you, ye shall find it with Allaah: for Allaah sees Well all that ye do.
Qur’an - Surah al-Baqara (The Heifer) 2:110

And seek help in patience and prayer; and truly it is heavy except for those who humble themselves before Allaah.
Qur’an - Surah al-Baqara (The Heifer) 2:45

And no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. And if a heavily laden soul calls [another] to [carry some of] its load, nothing of it will be carried, even if he should be a close relative. You can only warn those who fear their Lord unseen and have established prayer. And whoever purifies himself only purifies himself for [the benefit of] his soul. And to Allaah is the [final] destination.
Qur’an - Surah Fatir (The Creator) 35:18

In the Name of Allaah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
Praise be to Allaah, Lord of all Creation,
The Beneficent, the Merciful.
Master of the Day of Judgment,
Thee alone we worship; Thee alone we beseech for help.
Show us the straight path,
The path of those whom You have favoured (the Muslims); not the (path) of those who have incurred [Your] displeasure (referring to the Jews), nor those who have gone astray (referring to the Christians).
Qur’an - Surah al-Fatiha (The Opening) 1:1-7 Compare Psalm 5 verse 8.

 

[aziz rasul]

I gave you something better to focus on that cannot just be waved away

As I said that the numerical miracle can only be based on authentic non contradictory Scripture from God, so it can't be something better.

Of course God produced miracles through His Scriptures, but if man has corrupted most of them, the what. God gave the previous Scriptures to man to take care which they didn't. In the case of the Qur'an, God said He Himself would preserve it from corruption, hence it hasn't changed for 14 centuries when it was revealed

BTW, there are no contradictions in the bible

.
Different accounts of Judas's death
Throwing down the pieces of silver in the temple, he departed; and he went and hanged himself. Matthew 27:5
Now this man acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness; and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out. Acts 1:18

Compare genealogy in the following two verses regarding the name of Joseph's (Mary's (peace be upon her) husband) father.
and JACOB the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born, who is called the Messiah. Matthew 1:16
Jesus was about thirty years old when he began his work. He was the son (as was thought) of Joseph son of HELI, Luke 3:23

Numerical inaccuracy - Age of Ahaziah
Ahaziah was forty-two years old when he began to reign; he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother’s name was Athaliah, a granddaughter of Omri. 2 Chronicles 22:2
Ahaziah was twenty-two years old when he began to reign; he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother’s name was Athaliah, a granddaughter of King Omri of Israel. 2 Kings 8:26

I can go on, if you wish. You even have different versions of the Bible and different number of books in those versions.

The Quran on the other hand was written much later and has no accurate account of of the most important event in all of human history.

Pray tell what that was before making a statement like that?

The book of Hebrews was written way before the Quran.

What does that prove? The NT was written many centuries after the Torah. I don't see the relevance of when God's Scripture was written. What's important is that it comes from God. The NT was given by God but written by man.

Are you even paying attention?

Yes, that's why I gave you the pre-conditions (which the Bible doesn't meet) before you can make a song and dance about the numerical miracles.

 

[conception_native_0123]

on the Day of Judgement

per Christ:

"those who believe in me shall not taste death, but obtain everlasting life"

 

[conception_native_0123]

oh, and to add to that....Christ is king of king, and lord of lords. The Qu'ran doesn't mean shit. and richard, stay out of this one, huh? I read that you gave up anyway.