Time for a new Political Debate

[jsanders]

Scoped rifle = sniper rifle = kill people
assult?, No semi-automatic rifle with a military look.
As I said before, these are used mostly today in target shooting. Sure they are fun for plinking, and other then they look scary, are no different than any other semi-automatic rifles. I have freinds that use SKS's for deer hunting. They say they are great in the brush.

We’re finely getting to the crux. Where do you draw the line on what’s legal and what’s not.

 

[FoFa]

Cause they give whackos the ability to kill, why is it that the first thing your cops do when wanting to defend themselves is reach for their gun?

Yeah, like they would not be a wacko if the gun was not there.

 

[jsanders]

Yeah, like they would not be a wacko if the gun was not there.

You have to admit that a wacko with a sling shot aint half as bad as a wacko with a 3 burst, quick load, short barreled, hollow point spitting, assault rifle.

 

[FoFa]

We’re finely getting to the crux. Where do you draw the line on what’s legal and what’s not.

Fully automatic, no need for that pretty much except in the military.
Is my Rem. 1100 an assult shotgun? It actually has a longer range than the "black" shotguns in use.
What about a henry rifle? Holds 10-14 rounds, about as fast as a semi-auto (ok slower to reload, but not by much using a column reloader)? Should we cruise the western shoot'n circuit and start conficating those?

 

[FoFa]

You have to admit that a wacko with a sling shot aint half as bad as a wacko with a 3 burst, quick load, short barreled, hollow point spitting, assault rifle.

But a wacko with a 3 burst, quick load, short barreled, hollow point spitting, assault rifle is less worse than a wacko with 5000 gallon fuel tanker under his control if total kill potential is what you are talking about.
Besides, even here we don't have than many wacko's out shooting people, the biggest problem are criminal who have them. It is illegal for them to have them, use them, etc. Sounds like it is more of a crime problem.

 

[jsanders]

Fully automatic, no need for that pretty much except in the military.
Is my Rem. 1100 an assult shotgun? It actually has a longer range than the "black" shotguns in use.
What about a henry rifle? Holds 10-14 rounds, about as fast as a semi-auto (ok slower to reload, but not by much using a column reloader)? Should we cruise the western shoot'n circuit and start conficating those?

Of course not I have an 1187 nearly the same as yours. And I would use it on an intruder in a heart beat.

I would love to own one of those British over and unders as well. But only for show I dont have much use for a lion gun.

I don't think the semiautomatic part of the rafle is as troublesom as the rapid loading, that makes it very hard for a determiend wacko to get shot safely.

 

[FoFa]

I don't think the semiautomatic part of the rafle is as troublesom as the rapid loading, that makes it very hard for a determiend wacko to get shot safely.

Define rapid reload? I can reload my T/C Contender in seconds (Oh and it is a hand rifle).
I can reload my revolvers rather quickly using quick release reloaders. My friend can reload his browning bolt action (sniper rilfe?) deer rifle in seconds as he has a second 5 round "clip". YET my SKS does NOT have a detachable magazine, as do things like the M1 Garands, yet those are Assault rifles. And the old M1 A1 could be reloaded in seconds, as the British Enfield and those are bolt action (sniper?) rifles.

 

[Rich]

But a wacko with a 3 burst, quick load, short barreled, hollow point spitting, assault rifle is less worse than a wacko with 5000 gallon fuel tanker under his control if total kill potential is what you are talking about.

That's a nonsensical argument, how many tankers have been used in this way in the States, you can't conceal a frigging tanker.
You guys still treat the country as if it were the wild west and you didn't answer my question about how you'd feel if one of your kids was blasted to bits by one of these pop guns

 

[jsanders]

That's a nonsensical argument, how many tankers have been used in this way in the States, you can't conceal a frigging tanker.
You guys still treat the country as if it were the wild west and you didn't answer my question about how you'd feel if one of your kids was blasted to bits by one of these pop guns

That's a dumb statement. How would any parent feel.

 

[Rich]

That's a dumb statement. How would any parent feel.

That's a dumb question, how would the rest of the country feel? Sad enough to forgo their own gun ownership to ensure that all was being done to try and prevent another massacre. That's what happened in this country, in yours you allow a fervent supporter to rub the victims parents noses in the ground by holding an NRA meeting in the same town shortly after. Like I said, you guys don't care about your kids, you dismiss it as being part of gang warfare, aren't they kids too? I'm guessing here but I suspect most of them are black.

 

[jsanders]

That's a dumb question, how would the rest of the country feel? Sad enough to forgo their own gun ownership to ensure that all was being done to try and prevent another massacre. That's what happened in this country, in yours you allow a fervent supporter to rub the victims parents noses in the ground by holding an NRA meeting in the same town shortly after. Like I said, you guys don't care about your kids, you dismiss it as being part of gang warfare, aren't they kids too? I'm guessing here but I suspect most of them are black.

You really don't get this.
Private gun ownership is not the problem.

If gangs are populated by Black people or Hispanic or Asian or Anglos, it’s because there families failed to keep them out of the gangs.

The lure of easy drug money, the fact that they were 14 and 15 when she got pregnant. The list goes on. Nothing can be done by the nation to fix it.

Only the local village can fix the problem.

But when a young person rises up out of the quagmire, they leave to go to the military or college, and they never look back.

So how do you hold us accountable? There is no accounting that would be fair. For 40 years we have tried and if someone doesn’t want to work their way out of it then nothing you, we , or anyone, can do will change it.

Taking guns away from the average citizen will have no affect on the urban problem. Any way you’re a human being why don’t you fix it? They’re just as much you’re problem as ours.

Rich why don’t you think any of the black people that visit this forum ever say anything about this?

It’s because they’re to busy making sure their families futures are intact. You need to step back from you’re high horse and see this problem for what it really is.

Read the thread on discipline. What you see there is a bunch of people that are raising college students and future successful citizens. That is in stark contrast to the inner city mentality of daddy getting teenage mommy pregnant and robbing the local 711 to get drug money. Not even diapers.

Successful people in this country of any color get over their victim mentality and move on. Your writing seems to indicate that you actually believe we don’t care so we don’t try. That is a load of bunk. The system is set up to notice kids that want to move up. Someone is there to help. But if you choose a gang, then die by the gang and good riddance. Hopefully your death is before you have any kids of your own but unfortunately that is probably not the case.

Well that was politically incorrect, but a lot of people agree with it.

 

[Rich]

You really don't get this.
Private gun ownership is not the problem.
.

Yes I do and yes it is. Gun ownership is big business and that's the reason why you'll never do anything to try and address the problem.

If gangs are populated by Black people or Hispanic or Asian or Anglos, it’s because there families failed to keep them out of the gangs.

The lure of easy drug money, the fact that they were 14 and 15 when she got pregnant. The list goes on. Nothing can be done by the nation to fix it.

Only the local village can fix the problem.

You mean it's somebody elses problem and not the society that you guys live in. You can send your army into other countries to tell them how to lead their lives but you can't do it in your own country

But when a young person rises up out of the quagmire, they leave to go to the military or college, and they never look back.

I see, so teaching them to shoot at other countries takes the problem away

So how do you hold us accountable? There is no accounting that would be fair. For 40 years we have tried and if someone doesn’t want to work their way out of it then nothing you, we , or anyone, can do will change it.

You haven't tried as a United Nation Joey and you know it. Remind me again who forced Alabama to allow equal education, the State of Alabama or National government with a leader who had the balls to tackle the problem.

 

[mr_fish]

No, you don't really get this

You really don't get this.
Private gun ownership is not the problem.

Stats > Crime > Murders with firearms
VIEW DATA: Totals Per capita

Country---------Murders | Ratio | Population | Pop Ratio
United States | 8,259 | 133.20 | 295,734,000 | 4.89
United Kingdom | 62 | 1 | 60,441,000 | 1

DEFINITION: Total recorded intentional homicides committed with a firearm. Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevalence.

SOURCE: Seventh United Nations Survey of Crime Trends and Operations of Criminal Justice Systems, covering the period 1998 - 2000 (United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, Centre for International Crime Prevention)

 

[ColinEssex]

Like I said, we've been over this a million times: what you see on TV is not representative of the average U.S. citizen, . . . . . . . . .I guess you guys in the UK haven't gotten the memo yet: reality shows aren't reality. They're edited, they're scripted, and they're produced.

You have spent alot of time explaining that the USA is nowhere near "Dirty Harry" or any fictional TV show, so "Dallas" and "The Waltons" bear no resemblence to reality? - is there any TV show that reflects actual American life?.
Fair enough, but in a reality TV "fly-on-the-wall" police show - I was merely making the point that the first thing the police patrolman did after pulling someone over for speeding was to pull his gun out before approaching the driver.

Now the question is why did he do that? and what was he expecting to happen if "totin' a gun" is as rare as you make out it is.

Col

 

[Friday]

Fair enough, but in a reality TV "fly-on-the-wall" police show - I was merely making the point that the first thing the police patrolman did after pulling someone over for speeding was to pull his gun out before approaching the driver.

Now the question is why did he do that? and what was he expecting to happen if "totin' a gun" is as rare as you make out it is.

Col

Col:

This is why:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1398115

 

[ColinEssex]

Col:

This is why:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1398115

Thats exactly why - but this is not a rare event obviously.

What I can't seem to get across to people here, is that this is the way people perceive life to be in the USA and it seems to be getting worse.
Whilst I believe Kraj /Ken /Cindy /TessB etc when they say its not the norm -what you have to do is look at the image that the USA portrays to the rest of the world.

People that have never been to the USA can only judge on what they see - rightly or wrongly - its easy for a US poster to dismiss it as totally wrong.

Its all about image, the image of the USA is fairly low, being the most hated nation in the world (since Bush took over) - how do US posters think this can be rectified? can it be rectified? do the USA people care about their image? or is it just a "sod it, we're the greatest and we don't give a toss about anyone"

Personally I give credit to the US in that when the India/Pakistan earthquake happened recently, the US military were in there airlifting and dropping supplies within a day or so - that was bloody impressive stuff in terribly remote areas. (Kraj, note thats a compliment to the USA )

Col

 

[The Stoat]

Rich why don’t you think any of the black people that visit this forum ever say anything about this?

Just as a matter of interest how do you know who is black and who isn't?

 

[jsanders]

Just as a matter of interest how do you know who is black and who isn't?

Well have any Americans on this board whined about inequality?

 

[The Stoat]

Well have any Americans on this board whined about inequality?

And with that statement you finally damn yourself.

 

[ColinEssex]

Well have any Americans on this board whined about inequality?

Its all about image. . . .

. . .. . . . . . .
Col