Why The Gun Is Civilization

Ken (Kenn)
It depends- the "correct" way to spell Ken/Kenn is Kenneth
(My Fathers name) and it is spelt either way - Ken/kenn-when shortened;)

But so used to doing Kenn that its automatic - no offense was intended
my step father is also a Kenn - -
so i often get them confused..
 
At this point, after thousands of these anti US posts of yours and Col's I doubt it's really about the US anyway and probably something else like maybe a flaw in your character ...

Attacking our characters Kenny? . . . . . new approach from you, given up on the namecalling at last?

KenHigg said:
On the other hand I and most all US poster's I can remember admit we have a gun problem here.

But it's ok for you and other US posters here to have one? Why not start a trend and give up the guns? No? I thought not.

Saying one thing in the forums but doing the opposite is easy. At least Rich and I are not so two faced, at least you know what you get from us.

Why is it bad for some people to have guns but not bad for you? Isn't that hypocritical?

Col
 
Don't be silly, we've always said that you could be a really nice nation, you just need a little guidance and refuse to take our advice:mad::p

Although said tongue in cheek - there is so truth in this -
I think that a lot of Brits (and others ) do acknoldege that the US COULD be the shining light that other countries aspire to .
its just that it falls short (by a long way) - but some (please note the some) US citizens think that they are the best and gods chosen ones . and that rules apply to other nations but not themselves ..
I am not going to go into details on this as it is subjective subect depending on the information each side gets to hear about -
 
I think we're going to be a little more subtle in our approach to the Yanks here, I mean take the case of say the black musicians that America ignored for so long until British groups took their songs and sent it back to the States as good ol' whitey boy music, if only we could field a contender for President. Think of the possibilities:eek:
 
At least Rich and I are not so two faced, at least you know what you get from us.

How would we know. You live in the UK. It would cost a fortune to monitor your personal behaviour. :D
 
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I think we're going to be a little more subtle in our approach to the Yanks here, I mean take the case of say the black musicians that America ignored for so long until British groups took their songs and sent it back to the States as good ol' whitey boy music, if only we could field a contender for President. Think of the possibilities:eek:


Actually...starting in the 50's a lot of white US artists made their careers "covering" black music. Of course the songs and arrangements were "bleached" first. Pat Boone comes to mind as one who started this way.

Most of the "British Invasion" bands started off playing skittle, a music form that was very sympathic to the transfer from black music. I know the Beatles mentioned Ray Charles and Eartha Kitt among their primary influences.
 
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Ken (Kenn)
It depends- the "correct" way to spell Ken/Kenn is Kenneth
(My Fathers name) and it is spelt either way - Ken/kenn-when shortened;)

But so used to doing Kenn that its automatic - no offense was intended
my step father is also a Kenn - -
so i often get them confused..

No problem here, just curious... I think I'll start signing my name with two n's and see if anyone notices :)

(You'd think a bunch of grown men like us (me, col, rich, etc) would have better things to do than rattle on at each other - :))

:)
ken
 
Maybe we should go back to talking about motorcycles?
 
I think I'll start signing my name with two n's and see if anyone notices :)

I'm sure we will.

We've noticed that you've removed your location from the posts. Obviously to avoid embarassment at being in the USA? I'd probobly do the same if I lived in the most hated country in the world.

Col
 
Maybe we should go back to talking about motorcycles?

Please, no :(

If I accidentally click on one of those threads again and nod off, my boss is going to kill me. :)
 
Col - Get a life.

:)
ken

So why remove your location if it's not embarrassment? Frightened someone may try to seek you out?

I have a life thanks. Hows yours? Been out past the flag and the picket fence lately?

Col
 
I'll bet it is the lost UTOPIA that people have been searching for.
- BobLarson

Searching for Utopia is like waiting for Godot. There is a philosophical joke hidden in the name Utopia. It is old Greek for "no place." The guy who originally used that name was being ironic. He was essentially pointing out in an overly erudite way that the perfect place DOESN'T EXIST. The problem was that his readers, not being so erudite as he first thought, DIDN'T GET IT. So now we perpetuate the joke without knowing it when we extoll the virtues of Utopia.

I will note also in passing that there used to be an old saying from the USA's Wild West days. "It takes a brave man to go out without a gun."

The whole bit about "equalizer" is flat-out true, but without proper understanding of the historical context - AND the original viewpoint of the USA's "founding fathers" - none of our UK cousins will appreciate the situation.

Originally, people who came to the USA in the 1600s and 1700s were going into a true wilderness. No cities. No apothecary shop down the street. No barristers or advocates to protect your rights. You did that yourself. To do that, you needed to carry a weapon that would force your opponents to think twice before trying anything involving great force. The Revolutionary War (our name for the war in which we won our nation's independence) involved the ultimate in such logic. The various militia units fought without military training or discipline. They fought as rugged individuals with a common cause. Just because they won didn't mean that the country in which they lived became more civilized.

The gun was the way to civilize the world around you. Animals attacking? Reason won't prevail but a musket ball or some heavy shot will do the trick. Bandits attacking? If they know you are armed, they might think twice before continuing. Who wants to face the odds of being the one who gets killed? It is cold comfort to know that your buddies will get your prey if you are the one who won't live to see it.

The gun's presence forces people to THINK. But there is a symmetry rule. No guns? Might makes right. One gun? Might makes right. Each side is armed? NOW we have a stand-off. The USA and USSR had one of these for years - with nuclear-tipped missiles instead of ordinary guns. With the standoff, you MUST learn to negotiate.

See, that's the key to understanding how the gun REALLY works. The gun, used properly, is NEVER removed from its holster and discharged. All that it does is make the other person stop thinking "Winner take all" and start thinking "Quid pro quo." THERE is the start of civilization for you. THAT is why the USA thinks like it does.

But another truth is that this has been the same throughout history. Where would the Magna Carta have gone without the fighting that led everyone to the peace table?

Not that I agree with everything it does, but where would the United Nations have been had it not been for mutually-assured destruction among the great nations?

The gun is really just the symbol of force. The force that makes "the other guy" blink during the face-off. Throughout history it has been many things - club, spear, sword, arrow, ... and now the gun. Tomorrow? Maybe a hand-held laser. Who knows?
 
We are in now the twenty first century, why do Americans still think that might is right and the worlds problems can be solved with guns or now apparently knives?:rolleyes:
 
We are in now the twenty first century, why do Americans still think that might is right and the worlds problems can be solved with guns or now apparently knives?:rolleyes:

Now just for my sake Rich, I've told you my eyes are poor, could you quote the bit in the doc's post where he says "might is right", In fact I don't think I saw it in any post so please help me.

Brian
 
The gun's presence forces people to THINK. But there is a symmetry rule. No guns? Might makes right. One gun? Might makes right. Each side is armed? NOW we have a stand-off. The USA and USSR had one of these for years - with nuclear-tipped missiles instead of ordinary guns. With the standoff, you MUST learn to negotiate.

See, that's the key to understanding how the gun REALLY works. The gun, used properly, is NEVER removed from its holster and discharged. All that it does is make the other person stop thinking "Winner take all" and start thinking "Quid pro quo." THERE is the start of civilization for you. THAT is why the USA thinks like it does.

I'm sorry but this is complete nonsense, IMHO.

You talk as if a battle of attrition has never taken place. Perhaps you would like to apply this theory to some real historical events.

Here's one to be getting along with.

You see the point is, is that force [ie. the gun] is used to dominate. Battles are fought because attrition works. Here's another such example of attrition in action.

The US is in a complete mess in Iraq because of this inane view that our 'boys' are going to scare them into reasonable discourse. **knock knock HELLO!**. These 'insurgents' are fighting a battle of attrition. Just like the viet-cong, just like the Brits in the Battle of Britain. They are not interested in backing down for fear of getting hurt. They are solely interested in not being dominated and will take whatever steps it takes to prevent it from happening. How do you think the American revolution was won?

Yanks: Go home
Brits: Why?
Yanks: 'Cos we got guns
Brits: So do we
Yanks: So better not to fight huh?
Brits: Ok but we're not leaving
Yanks: But we want you to
Brits: Well it's not happening, we like our dominant position
Yanks: We don't, we don't like to be dominated
Brits: Well put up or shut up
Yanks: Not interesed in leaving through diplomatics persuasion?
Brits: Nope.
Yanks: Put up sounds good, let's get it on.
**Cuban Missile Crisis this ain't**
 
We are in now the twenty first century, why do Americans still think that might is right and the worlds problems can be solved with guns or now apparently knives?:rolleyes:

I suggest you refer to Dan's post.

The British used the same reasoning when they had an Empire. Worked pretty well for them, so why condemn others for trying it.
 
I suggest you refer to Dan's post.

The British used the same reasoning when they had an Empire. Worked pretty well for them, so why condemn others for trying it.

You and Brian are missing the point this is the Twenty First century, America is still of the opinion that might is right:rolleyes:
 

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