Are you an atheist?

[Rich]

I was not saying that GWB had sole responsibility but he did (and should) have considerable influence in these decisions. he is after all head of the administration. In the same way Tony Blair also has to take responsibilty in supporting the US in these actions.

God told them to do it

 

[Rich]

Public law 107-243 passed by the United State Congress authorized the "Iraq War". As Commander in Chief of the United States Military, the President of the United States is responsible for carrying out wars written into law by Congress. It's his job.

President Bush requested that Congress pass the law but had no way of forcing them to do it. They passed the law after they checked out and justified it.

Houston: Two years before the September 11 attacks, presidential candidate George W. Bush was already talking privately about the political benefits of attacking Iraq, according to his former ghost writer, who held many conversations with then-Texas Governor Bush in preparation for a planned autobiography.
“He was thinking about invading Iraq in 1999,” said author and journalist Mickey Herskowitz. “It was on his mind. He said to me: ‘One of the keys to being seen as a great leader is to be seen as a commander-in-chief.’ And he said, ‘My father had all this political capital built up when he drove the Iraqis out of Kuwait and he wasted it.’ He said, ‘If I have a chance to invade….if I had that much capital, I’m not going to waste it. I’m going to get everything passed that I want to get passed and I’m going to have a successful presidency.”
Houston: Two years before the September 11 attacks, presidential candidate George W. Bush was already talking privately about the political benefits of attacking Iraq, according to his former ghost writer, who held many conversations with then-Texas Governor Bush in preparation for a planned autobiography.
“He was thinking about invading Iraq in 1999,” said author and journalist Mickey Herskowitz. “It was on his mind. He said to me: ‘One of the keys to being seen as a great leader is to be seen as a commander-in-chief.’ And he said, ‘My father had all this political capital built up when he drove the Iraqis out of Kuwait and he wasted it.’ He said, ‘If I have a chance to invade….if I had that much capital, I’m not going to waste it. I’m going to get everything passed that I want to get passed and I’m going to have a successful presidency.”

 

[Alc]

God told them to do it

Did Blair try that one, too?
I may well have missed it, being out of the country, but I wouldn't have thought even he'd have the gall to say that as well.

 

[Rich]

Did Blair try that one, too?
I may well have missed it, being out of the country, but I wouldn't have thought even he'd have the gall to say that as well.

He prayed to God first

 

[Pauldohert]

Was Godel covered here or by dawkins? What was the response to his logic?

 

[April15Hater]

Wow, never thought I'd see this post in an access forum!!

Just my 0.02, I voted agnostic. I don't know if it was said before or not, but I think religion is similar to Santa Clause. If one thinks that somebody is watching, they will behave ethically. Santa knows who is naughty or nice, therefore children curb their behavior to get toys on xmas. Similarly, religion leads people to believe that God is always watching and will judge them at the Pearly Gates. Thus said people behave in a manner that will get them into Heaven.

Although I'm agnostic, I do believe in tradition. So I claim to be Jewish.

Joe

 

[Alisa]

Thanks for reviving this thread Joe, since the election is over, there hasn't been nearly enough contention around here

 

[April15Hater]

LOL, I can't take all the cred, Pauldohert did beat me to it.

What's funny is it actually topped the list in my search ".left control unit size"

 

[Alisa]

LOL, I can't take all the cred, Pauldohert did beat me to it.

What's funny is it actually topped the list in my search ".left control unit size"

That is hilarious, I guess once you top 2500 posts, just about every word has been used!

I usually limit my searches to the Microsoft Access Discussion part of the site - who knows what you will run into over here

 

[Alisa]

http://www.slate.com/id/2203614/pagenum/all

Interesting article.
As an atheist, I agree with his conclusion that atheists in America suffer because they are outcast, not because they are not religious. In fact, that is why I go to church - it is very difficult if not impossible to find a community comparable to what you can find at church. I wonder how many others go to church even though they may be agnostic or atheistic because of this same reason? And how many don't, and suffer because of it? Is there anyone out there who is not completely sick of this thread, and still has something to contribute?

 

[marleymanner1]

hI agree with his conclusion that atheists in America suffer because they are outcast, not because they are not religious. In fact, that is why I go to church - it is very difficult if not impossible to find a community comparable to what you can find at church.

I agree with the church idea Alisa. A sense of Community is MUCH better in a church than anywhere else. Maybe it's a sense that GOD is watching? lol. =) People feel guilty if they are mean to others???

 

[Lightwave]

Sadly Marlymanner / Ailsa that is not always the case...

Last night I watched a program called saving Africa's Witch Children.

Clear example of a church resulting in the discrimination of children by ministering to the ignorant and uneducated.

It is clear that this is a direct reflection of historical episodes of both European and American history.

This will give you quite a lot to think about - I was largely with you on your point marley until I watched this.

Watch the episode for yourself

Link will expire in 30 days

 

[Lightwave]

For those that don't have MS Media Player 11

The episode is a channel 4 (UK) documentary reporting on an African church which has been obtaining funds by the sale of religious films.

These films are little more than bad slasher movies (think Michael Jackson thriller). Unfortunately they are sold as real interpretations of the Bible.

One video accuses children of witchcraft. This has resulted in the destitution and abuse of 100s of children.

People can say that their church is not like that and I can understand that and I wouldn't deny the right of people to wish for a superior being.

Our history and that of churches in general I think highlights that it is important that we need to accept evidence to the contrary of religious teachings even if its contrary to your own churches teachings.

The danger being that individual religions cloud judgement and rather than encouraging peaceful settlement prevent the respectful treatment of others.

 

[Rabbie]

Thanks Lightwave for highlighting the dangers of religion taken to extremes. It seems that some churches work quite well as social clubs but as soon as they start getting down to pushing their core beliefs then they start showing their less attractive side.

 

[HiArt]

Well, now, hold on to your horses, you're going to love/hate this

Premis 1 - We, Humans, are intelligent. OK, by and large, there are some examples which might give lie to this statement.

Premis 2 - We live within a body called the Universe, or one of the Unvierses of the Multiverse.

So, if a subset of the Unviverse is intelligent then the set of the Universe must be intelligent.

I choose to call the Intelligent Universe "God", so there.

And now, to quote Doglas Adams, I'll procedd to prove Black is White and get killed on the nearest Zebra crossing.

 

[Mike375]

To be an atheist you must assume that there is no form of life higher than the human in the whole universe. That is a big call in the face of science.

In addition such an assumption puts you right into the world of the bible.

 

[Brianwarnock]

To be an atheist you must assume that there is no form of life higher than the human in the whole universe. QUOTE]

Why?

Brian

 

[Mike375]

To be an atheist you must assume that there is no form of life higher than the human in the whole universe. QUOTE]

Why?

Brian

Atheism is based on all answers are a product of phyical or natural laws (as man understands them)

Consider what a man can do compared to a chimp, yet our DNA is supposed to match 99%. So would could the next life form up from us do and the next life form up again and so on.

A soon as you allow for a higher form of life in the universe than man you have opened the door to super beings. To deny the possibility of higher forms of life flies in the face of science.

In my opinion Atheism is more about a statement of position as opposed to drawing a conclusion.

 

[Alc]

Premis 1 - We, Humans, are intelligent. OK, by and large, there are some examples which might give lie to this statement.

Agreed.

Premis 2 - We live within a body called the Universe, or one of the Unvierses of the Multiverse.

Agreed.

So, if a subset of the Unviverse is intelligent then the set of the Universe must be intelligent.

So because we live inside something and we are intelligent, what we live in must also be intelligent? Doesn't necessarily follow.

Change premise 2 to "We live in houses". This is also true for most of us.
My house isn't intelligent.

 

[April15Hater]

So, if a subset of the Unviverse is intelligent then the set of the Universe must be intelligent.

Just because a subset of the universe is intelligent doesn't mean that the universe as a whole is intelligent. That would be like saying GW Bush is an idiot therefore all Americans are idiots. You are taking a part and applying it to the whole which is an informal fallacy.