Are you an atheist?

[Lightwave]

I've just spent the afternoon windsurfing 2km off shore in a sunny force 6. Nice waist high swell and watched the sun go down as I packed up.

Later on I'm going to go for a swim with my athletics club and then have one shandy with my fellow swimmers.

I am now listening to music while I post this.

And oh yes Barack Obama was elected president of the USA last week.

Whether a god exists or not...

Doesn't detract from the shear beauty of the world that surrounds us...

 

[Rabbie]

Atheism is based on all answers are a product of phyical or natural laws (as man understands them)

Consider what a man can do compared to a chimp, yet our DNA is supposed to match 99%. So would could the next life form up from us do and the next life form up again and so on.

A soon as you allow for a higher form of life in the universe than man you have opened the door to super beings. To deny the possibility of higher forms of life flies in the face of science.

In my opinion Atheism is more about a statement of position as opposed to drawing a conclusion.

Correction Mike, Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a God. There could be much more advanced lifeforms in the universe than us (I woud suggest that there certainly are) but this does not make them supernatural. We might appear to have supernatural powers in the eyes of a chimp but that does not make us supernatural.

I'll stop now because have a vague memory we have been round this loop before in this thread and I can't be bothered to check that

 

[KenHigg]

We might appear to have supernatural powers in the eyes of a chimp

Well.... Everyone except Rich.

 

[Alc]

I've just spent the afternoon windsurfing 2km off shore in a sunny force 6. Nice waist high swell and watched the sun go down as I packed up.

Later on I'm going to go for a swim with my athletics club and then have one shandy with my fellow swimmers.

I am now listening to music while I post this.

And oh yes Barack Obama was elected president of the USA last week.

Whether a god exists or not...

Doesn't detract from the shear beauty of the world that surrounds us...

You're not a politician, are you?
All valid points that added nothing to either side of the argument

 

[KenHigg]

You're not a politician, are you?
All valid points that added nothing to either side of the argument

And what the heck is a 'force 6'?

 

[Alc]

And what the heck is a 'force 6'?

My guess
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaufort_Wind_Scale#The_modern_scale

 

[Lightwave]

Yep Ken Alc's bang on...

I was going to make the same point as Rabbie but I just went off on a different track..

In my defence I did have a couple of posts on the previous pages where I got off the fence.

 

[Brianwarnock]

Correction Mike, Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a God. There could be much more advanced lifeforms in the universe than us (I woud suggest that there certainly are) but this does not make them supernatural. We might appear to have supernatural powers in the eyes of a chimp but that does not make us supernatural.

I'll stop now because have a vague memory we have been round this loop before in this thread and I can't be bothered to check that

Well said Rabbie better put than I would have if I could have been bothered to point it out to Mike.

Brian

 

[Rich]

That would be like saying GW Bush is an idiot therefore all Americans are idiots.

Don't be silly, it only applies to his followers, but them he was re-elected by the majority, mmmmmmmmm

 

[MrsGorilla]

Don't be silly, it only applies to his followers, but them he was re-elected by the majority, mmmmmmmmm

Well it was either this:

or this:

 

[Mike375]

I'll stop now because have a vague memory we have been round this loop before in this thread and I can't be bothered to check that

A different circuit this time Rabbie

Let's say supernatural is above the natural laws. However, that is natural laws as we know them.

For example, if in the 1800s an alien arrived and detonated a 50 megaton nucleal bomb and shifted a mountain then the explosives experts of the day would be at a complete loss. The whole concept on conversion of mass to energy is in the area of impossible, when associated with the natural laws of the day, as known in that time.

Such a being could use natural laws that have an influence on us that are unexplainable...miracles perhaps? who knows.

Is Atheism a lack of belief in God or a lack of belief in a god. Throughout history is it true that there has been a belief in gods and that these gods have limitations?

 

[Rabbie]

A different circuit this time Rabbie

Let's say supernatural is above the natural laws. However, that is natural laws as we know them.

I disagree. Natural Laws are natural laws regardless of how much we know or understand.

For example, if in the 1800s an alien arrived and detonated a 50 megaton nucleal bomb and shifted a mountain then the explosives experts of the day would be at a complete loss. The whole concept on conversion of mass to energy is in the area of impossible, when associated with the natural laws of the day, as known in that time.

A clear fallacy. Something may appear to be supernatural becuse we do not know how it is done. This however does not mean it is supernatural.

Such a being could use natural laws that have an influence on us that are unexplainable...miracles perhaps? who knows.

As above
it still is not supernatural.

Is Atheism a lack of belief in God or a lack of belief in a god. Throughout history is it true that there has been a belief in gods and that these gods have limitations?

Some people have always believed in gods. That does not make them true. I am sure if you add up the total of gods that people have believed in it is a large number.

Personally I see no need for a god hypothesis. For me it explains nothing and adds nothing to my understanding of the universe. To me it diminishes rather than increases the wonder of what I see around me.

 

[Lightwave]

Rabbi I am totally with you...

The concept of God with humanities seems to rotate around the ability to answer the question.

Who created us, why are we here and what are we supposed to be doing?

Walking on water and feeding people are tools might be impressive but wouldn't answer this question.

Even if an entity turned up that was so technologically advanced that they could even alter the laws of nature. That thing would appear omnipotent and even supernatural but doubtless would in fact still have it's limits..

Now if someone turned up and said well I didn't exactly create you but I seeded the planet cos I wanted to improve this solar system's real estate and actually I was wondering whether you'd managed to figure out that very same question..

We could then tell him a story about an author called Douglas Adams.

I think we might have to come to the conclusion that there was no purpose and we were not specifically created in anyone's image - hard for some but not for me.

Doesn't mean we can't make purpose out or our lives or purposefully create things..

 

[Mike375]

Rabbie,

I could have used many other examples rather than nuclear Vs explosive expert of the 1800s. I chose nuclear because as you know it was not simply an advance on existing knowledge. In fact nuclear physics contradicts all normal physics/chemistry.

For all we know there could be advanced life forms that have at their disposal natural laws (which perhaps they can change) that are beyond our wildest dreams.

My point is that there are probaly advanced life forms that can (and do) infleunce our lives in ways that seem "miraculous" in the same manner as we can do to the ant, reptile, deer and chimpanzee.

Are telescopes/science really see galaxies millions of light years away or could it be an illusion.

Would you accept the possibility that there are very advanced life forms that could in facy change natural laws. Perhaps I could use Access as an analogy. You and I are bound by the limits/rules imposed on us by Access. However, Microsoft is a different situation.

 

[Rabbie]

Mike, I stand by my previous response. Just because I do not know of a certain technology so that something appears to be supernatural does not make it supernatural.

 

[Mike375]

Mike, I stand by my previous response. Just because I do not know of a certain technology so that something appears to be supernatural does not make it supernatural.

But if an advanced life form can change the natural laws?

 

[Rabbie]

But if an advanced life form can change the natural laws?

When I see any evidence of the laws changing I will reconsider my position

 

[Lightwave]

Mike I think that proves the point Microsoft can change all things with access more so than the users however they would not be regarded as Gods.

 

[ColinEssex]

It's easy to believe in something that can neither be proved or disproved.

It's odd however, that those who believe in something always insist they are right, even to the point of killing those who believe otherwise.

What does that show? Brainwashing? Fanaticism? or just plain lunacy. Christians are an excellent example.

Col

 

[Mike375]

Mike I think that proves the point Microsoft can change all things with access more so than the users however they would not be regarded as Gods.

In terms of Access they are a god (compared to us) because they can change the rules, we can't and we are bound by the rules they set for Access.

Put it this way, what you or I can do in Access can be predicted as the "natural laws" are known and can't be changed by us. But that does not apply to Microsoft.

However, Microsoft is only a branch manager god as what it can do with Access "natural laws" is limited by another set of natural laws.

Is it possible that there is a God or gods when considered from the practical point of view. For example, could their be an advanced life form that can change gravity or the speed of light. Such a concept is no different than what nuclear phyisics was to chemistry that only dealt with electrons. The loss of mass in a reaction was considered impossible.

If an advanced life form could change gravity (currently impossible?) then the moon could either fall to the earth or fly out of orbit.