Are you an atheist?

[Dick7Access]

This point has been raised earlier but not yet answered. Where did God come from? It seems to be dodging the question just to say "This universe is too complex to have just evolved. It must have been created by someone who we will call God". Until you can explain where God came from then this is not a satisfactory answer.

The Bible says that God always was, so the answer is God did not come from anywhere. Now, if someone doesn't believe the Bible then that is not a satisfactory answer. However if someone doesn't believe the Bible there is a good chance they don't believe there is a (g)od, so then the question is moot.

 

[nanscombe]

The Bible is probably (at best, and IMHO) a translation, of a translation, of a translation, of a man's interpretation of the words of a mythical being who's existence has been neither proved nor disproved.

To see the Bible as the word of God would definitely require faith.

 

[Rabbie]

No, I believe that science in the end will show that there is a God. The question I ask each of you to explain :Why is there anything and how did it come into existence?
There is only one answer and yes, God is older than the Universe(s). My world view (Theist).

Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

Does there actually have to be a reason why there is anything? There just is and the process can be described by scientists. To conjure some mystic entity called god that created everything is just a way of saying you don't know the answer. There is no evidence for god. This is justified by believers by saying it is a matter of faith. With solid evidence there would be no need for faith

 

[Bladerunner]

=nanscombe;1326255]"It is the work of God" is an easier phrase to admit to than "I don't know". But once you start to understand things for yourself then God starts to be replaced with facts.
The Earth has been proven to have been around for approximately 4,500,000,000 years.
Evidence has been found to show that Man has been around for about 200,000 years.
As far as I am aware any evidence to show the hand of an omnipotent being, that stands up to scrutiny, has yet to be found.
Even if the Earth were formed and seeded with life by a technologically advanced species doesn't make them gods.

Two thousand years ago we were unable to restore sight to people, revive people after they were clinically dead, help barren women to conceive.

Would those acts now make us gods in the eyes of the people living in biblical times?

*Can we restore sight: Yes but they would need surgery, etc.. Jesus did this by commanding it be so and always with large crowds present.

* Help barren women to conceive, Yes. Again we need surgery, etc. Jesus only needed to command it so and he did this with huge crowds present..

*Revive people who are clinically dead. Ah, a play on words here.. 'Clinically dead'. The heart stops. No respirations . Dilated Pupils, death in other organ begins within minutes after the heart has stopped. Brain death begins within 5 to 10 minutes after blood flow has stopped. Within a few hours, Rigor mortis sets in and the decay of the body begins almost immediately. YES, we can keep them on a respirator, put them on a heart pump where the blood flow would continue indefinitely (would not need a heart), feed them via IV, etc.. Of course we have to keep them sedated during this time.

The one thing we cannot do is: if the Brain is dead, we cannot revive it by any means. The spark (soul) has left the body!

Lazarus of Bethany was four days dead (rem, in Biblical times). Yet, he was resurrected by Jesus within minutes with a large crowd watching.

*******
To answer you question: NO they would not call us Gods!
*******
Remember this:

The MAN that performed those miracles was born of a human body and walked among us here on earth for a brief period of time.

All he and his father ask is that you believe in them. Nothing more!

Your Choice!

Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

 

[nanscombe]

All based on stories from a book by an unknown author which has been altered time and time again.

 

[Bladerunner]

You've lost me. How does



tally with the accuracy of radiometric dating?



The truth does not require our explanation of it. It does not become something else because it remains beyond our capacity to demonstrate.

That is what the theist does. The theist demands answers now and fills the gaps with the undetectable. Comforting but not necessarily true.

What am I demanding of you? I thought this was a debate. simple.

What does your 'radiometric dating' date to say there is no God! that is what I don't understand. If he has never been seen by man , at least in the physical form, how can you date him by any means?

Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

 

[Bladerunner]

This point has been raised earlier but not yet answered. Where did God come from? It seems to be dodging the question just to say "This universe is too complex to have just evolved. It must have been created by someone who we will call God". Until you can explain where God came from then this is not a satisfactory answer.

No more than you can tell where all that matter that was needed for the big bang to happen? We both get to one point and can go no further.

It all comes down to Logic and Faith!

There is one difference. Jesus (the human son of God) walked on earth among men.

Again Your Choice!

Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

 

[Bladerunner]

Exactly

It seems to become rather recursive. We have no way of knowing what happened before the Big Bang about 14 Billion years ago so why worry about it.

What concerns me more are the people that believe that everything was created about 10,000 years ago. I have seen reports that indicate that over 40% of US citizens believe this. If it were true then that particular god has a somewhat warped sense of humour. Why did he create so much evidence for a much older planet if that was the case. The really spooky bit was creating distant galaxies complete with light already most of the way towards us.

Forty percent of the people of the US are uninformed and mostly under-educated regardless of what they tell you. They have no idea about the age of the earth and heavens. Hey, most of them don't even know who the president is?

I have no doubt that the universe and earth are as old (maybe older) as science teaches us. But on the way to get there, some men have decided that for what ever reason, it was too big a job for any entity to create and control thus logic dictates that it happened spontaneously.

Your right. we have no way of knowing what happened prior to the big bang (a theory only). Maybe someday.

Hey, (by a 'unreasoned hypothesis) there could be another ('place' unknown to this universe) where lived the entity (God) that created this universe and all its inhabitants.

Again it comes down to 'Logic vs Faith'

Your Choice!

Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

 

[Bladerunner]

The really spooky bit was creating distant galaxies complete with light already most of the way towards us.

And our science is 'so good and perfect' that we know without a doubt 'the light' that is already halfway here came from that galaxy and not somewhere else or vice-versa.

I read a book (sci-fi) were a telescope existed that was so good it could produce in detail what was happening on a planet at the time that the 'microsecond of light' left the planet toward us. On one planet, I remember they saw Dinosaurs .

The point being that when our science gets that good, we might get some answers instead of theories.

Have a nice day:>)

Bladerunner

 

[dan-cat]

What am I demanding of you? I thought this was a debate. simple.

Nothing from me personally. Your mind has come across a gap in knowledge and you demand it to be filled with an answer. So you fill it with something that has yet to be proved or disproved. That is what faith requires. The acceptance of a proposition that is unproven.

You imply that because the gap has been filled by something, that it is more truthful than nothing, which it isn't.

What does your 'radiometric dating' date to say there is no God! that is what I don't understand. If he has never been seen by man , at least in the physical form, how can you date him by any means?

It doesn't. I was trying to understand what you meant by your "few thousand years" comment. Did that comment have any relevance at all?

 

[Bladerunner]

The Bible is probably (at best, and IMHO) a translation, of a translation, of a translation, of a man's interpretation of the words of a mythical being who's existence has been neither proved nor disproved.

To see the Bible as the word of God would definitely require faith.

Nanscombe, the first fifteen chapters of bible was not written down until the time period of Moses (approx 1500 BC). They were handed down for thousands of years. Funny thing is, usually when something is handed down over a long period of time, it gets embellished and most of the bad things are dropped completely. As Galaxiom will attest; Abraham's God of war should have been deleted. The other books (19+) were written separately over a thousand years. They all still contain one consistency, there is a God in Heaven. As far as man's interpretation, the bible is taken from the scrolls that were actually written by the authors (supposedly). Yes, someone could have rewritten them but as in most cases did they rewrite them fromt he originals or heresay? Then where did all of the originals go. We still have them. In fact , the last book, Malachi, wrote his script around 450 BC. Until about 95 AD, nothing was written that has been found during these two periods. Then the New Testament started.

Have a nice day :>)


Bladerunner:

 

[Bladerunner]

All based on stories from a book by an unknown author which has been altered time and time again.

No,, written by the Apostles that were with him during this time. The original scrolls are the source.

Have a nice day:>)

Bladerunner

 

[Bladerunner]

Nothing from me personally. Your mind has come across a gap in knowledge and you demand it to be filled with an answer. So you fill it with something that has yet to be proved or disproved. That is what faith requires. The acceptance of a proposition that is unproven.

You imply that because the gap has been filled by something, that it is more truthful than nothing, which it isn't.

Dan-cat: Faith does not require anything. Your heart and mind and worldview require it. You have also come upon a gap in knowledge (there is or is no God), so you fill it in with Logic. Faith, Logic or any other fill-in is in response to your worldview. Your are a naturalist, evolutionist where all things can be defined by science and /or evolution. My worldview is Theist where I believe that all things were created by a higher being with a purpose not yet here. These world views require that we use Logic and Faith to get to their respective end. It is that simple.

It doesn't. I was trying to understand what you meant by your "few thousand years" comment. Did that comment have any relevance at all?

As far as the ' few thousand years' 'more' expression, It was just an expression to counter the statement you made :

A being that has been around for 0.0044% of Earth's existence has either #3652

I know not how old God is but I do know he has been around since the beginning whenever that was. Do you know when the beginning was? NO! With all the science we have at our disposal, we do not know. YET! there is hope. The big difference in me and the some of the other authors on this thread, is that I buy into science that it will in the future find the answers associated with the beginning of time as we know it. The difference is that I go there with the faith that we will find God, period. The other authors and you go there with the logic that there can be no God along with the hope (no matter how faint that hope is) that your Logic is right.

Have a nice day :>)


Bladerunner

 

[Mihail]

No, I believe that science in the end will show that there is a God. The question I ask each of you to explain :Why is there anything and how did it come into existence?
There is only one answer and yes, God is older than the Universe(s). My world view (Theist).

No, I believe that the science already show that there is no God. The question I ask each of you (the believers) to explain :Why the God do anything ?
There is only one answer: the God did nothing because is no reason for He to do something.

You say that the God is older than the Universe(s).
May I ask you how much older ? Of course that I don't expect a very exact answer. Thank you.

 

[nanscombe]

No,, written by the Apostles that were with him during this time. The original scrolls are the source.

Have a nice day:>)

Bladerunner

Are the scrolls in English, or a language who's meaning has remained unaltered over the centuries? (I'm guessing the answer is probably no).

I would also surmise that "A being that has been around for 0.0044% of Earth's existence..." is more likely to be Man than God.

Even if there were evidence to prove the existence of the apostles, or Jesus himself, none of that would be actual proof of an omnipotent non terrestrial being.

I guess that is where faith comes in.

 

[Bladerunner]

Are the scrolls in English, or a language who's meaning has remained unaltered over the centuries? (I'm guessing the answer is probably no).

Since we are talking about some of the earliest years that are recorded, it would probably be in Hebrew. It is close to being one of the oldest (not quite but close to) written languages. I don't think their meanings have changed in all that time but not sure.As far as the translations into English, over the years I am sure there have been some changes. Even today, we have people that want it to denote the masculine and feminine pronouns even though in the early days it was only masculine. Also, over the years, THE and THOU have changed somewhat. I would think the church both Jewish and Christian churches (they hold the scrolls) would make sure it does not vary very much.

I would also surmise that "A being that has been around for 0.0044% of Earth's existence..." is more likely to be Man that God.

I agree but the way he wrote it was not pointed toward man.

Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

 

[nanscombe]

I agree but the way he wrote it was not pointed toward man.

Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

The original quotation.

What is more likely to you?

A being that has been around for 0.0044% of Earth's existence has either

a) Managed to grasp the fundamental mechanics of how the cosmos has come to be

or

b) Created a comforting belief system that defines that being as the focal point of the cosmos.

0.0044% is 200,000 (the age of Man) divided by 4,500,000,000 (the age of the Earth) as a percentage.

So the question was actually ..

What is more likely to you?

Man has either

a) Managed to grasp the fundamental mechanics of how the cosmos has come to be

or

b) Created a comforting belief system that defines that being as the focal point of the cosmos.

So has Man begun to unravel the secrets of how parts of the universe work or has Man just sat back and said "Because that's how God made it."

 

[Bladerunner]

Nascombe
Even if there were evidence to prove the existence of the apostles, or Jesus himself, none of that would be actual proof of an omnipotent non terrestrial being.

I guess that is where faith comes in.

I have always said that there has been no records of physical sightings of God in the history of man that I can find. He spoke in spirit or through his angels. However, Jesus called him father and that is good enough for me. Accordingly, Jesus said: "that who-so-ever believed in me shall have everlasting life". He then left this world a little better than when he came into it with no claims or requirements on man other than you have a choice to believe in him........or NOT!

have a nice day:>)

Balderunner\

 

[Bladerunner]

The original quotation.



0.0044% is 200,000 (the age of Man) divided by 4,500,000,000 (the age of the Earth) as a percentage.

So the question was actually ..



So has Man begun to unravel the secrets of how parts of the universe work or has Man just sat back and said "Because that's how God made it."

Then I owe the original poster an apology, I did not read nor comprehend his post correctly.


Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

 

[nanscombe]

This could get confusing.

One minute I'm posting about Microsoft Access VBA the next about biblical philosophy.

Perhaps I could condense it down to a bit of VBA.

Debug.Print Not IsMissing(God)

True or False.