Are you an atheist? (1 Viewer)

[ConnorGiles]

Actually, that's a complete misconception. 12/21/12 was simply the end of the 13th b'ak'tun on the Mayan Long Count calendar and the start of the 14th. (That's 12.~ and 13.~ on the calendar, much like 2015 is the 21st Century.) While the Mayans believed that the current world began in the previous 13th b'ak'tun, they really thought of changes of b'ak'tun as indications of change and an excuse to celebrate, much like we did in 2000 (even though the 21st Century actually started 1/1/2001). They did NOT predict the end of the world on 12/21/12, for the simple reason that a b'ak'tun was just under 400 years, and even they didn't think the world would end every four centuries. At most, they would have expected 'great change'.

Hmm, Makes sense.

But to be honest I haven't seen a change either, Other than dress sense and the lack of ability to spell and the degrading of pronunciation. What happened to my generation!

 

[Bladerunner]

Scientists don't claim that Science is a Deity and worship it. I thought Global warming has been observed on a major scale (Poor Polar Bears )

I think you are trying to put your point of view across as a fact.?

Yes it is a fact but that is beside the point. Most Scientist think of themselves as a god within consistent with their post modern world views.

Another one of your opinions I see, The bible has been changed so much that it had to be re-written in the new testament. It has been seen on numerous occasions that religious people have changed their views around what evidence has been found to support a scientific theory.If it hadn't been changed I'm pretty sure the death rate now would be dramatically higher.

MAN has a brain and you see the problems associated with that. The Bible has been copied from the oldest manuscripts available and has been verified many times over that it is the same. Even the Dead Sea Scrolls prove this to be a truth. Well, these Scrolls to you are probably also false. This places my point in the previous post as true as well. Anything that backs up the Bible in your and other Atheist eyes is false. It is that simple.

By the way, We can never know how the universe started - Due to the fact they are theories, Rather than believing someone big and magical poof'd us into existence.

Yes we can, it is written and has been for a thousand years. However, it seem that what scientist write today trumps what was written yesterday. I guess the Big Bang Theory will go away and then we are to believe the Universe was "Just always here all along". Funny how written things of history are discarded and funnier yet is how people go about removing these ancient facts from history. BIG BANG will go the same way

By the way if Adam and Eve were the only 2. In your beliefs are we all related in some way?

Yes! Our DNA is the same,,,with a few minor exceptions....YES?????NO???? or at least that is what I saw when I was in the Medical field. You blood is the same as mine, your body overall looks the same as mine. Our Faces and Brains differentiate us. Even then, we are the same just different memories and a big nose, little nose, pointy nose, etc.(exceptions I spoke of).

Yes we all have Hebrew in us. Take Saudia Arabia, They have decended from Abraham Like us yet they are consider Arabs. We know through the written word of Bible who they descended from. Keep in mind that Islam was not written until 600AD long after the first five books was given to Moses. We, on the other hand, are what is know as the 'Gentiles' and is who Jesus is mainly talking to. The Israelites are God's people and will always be so however as in the past the Israelites have strayed away from God (Exodus) and are doing so now as foretold in the Bible. Because of this, the Islraelites will have to go through the 7 years of tribulatons. WHY? because of non-believers and there are those Isrealites (that do believe in God) but do not believe that they should go through Jesus Christ to get to Jehovah, his father, as laid out in the NT.

So much for my babling on.....it gives you plenty of fodder for the making...NO??????s



Have a good day my friend.

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

That is where you are wrong again! I couldn't re-site any book word for word as my memory is way to bad to even try!

Pretty sure Mayans tried to predict judgement day once.

Bet they feel silly now!

I wonder how you will feel or believers like you in the future when your "Judgement Day" comes and nothing happens.

Who knows maybe the Mayans got it right! 3 years on I feel no different, just a little older!

As Dick7Access once said, 'If you are right, we will never know and if I am right, I will miss conversing with you.' (paraphrase only)

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

And what would stop them from lying? I was lead to believe that mistrust and lies were more than common in those days.

I mean the Bible (or any other religious book) is full of them

Is that what the Atheist books tell you or do you know it for a fact?

 

[ConnorGiles]

Yes it is a fact but that is beside the point. Most Scientist think of themselves as a god within consistent with their post modern world views.

Wait? you said it was a lie but now its a fact? are you feeling okay?

MAN has a brain and you see the problems associated with that. The Bible has been copied from the oldest manuscripts available and has been verified many times over that it is the same. Even the Dead Sea Scrolls prove this to be a truth. Well, these Scrolls to you are probably also false. This places my point in the previous post as true as well. Anything that backs up the Bible in your and other Atheist eyes is false. It is that simple.

Just because it was written a long time ago doesn't prove evidence. If someone write a book about someone farting fire 2000 years ago and the story was told throughout the ages, would you perceive it as truth due to its ability to be passed down generations?

Yes we can, it is written and has been for a thousand years. However, it seem that what scientist write today trumps what was written yesterday. I guess the Big Bang Theory will go away and then we are to believe the Universe was "Just always here all along". Funny how written things of history are discarded and funnier yet is how people go about removing these ancient facts from history. BIG BANG will go the same way

These Theories are theories for a reason Blade, as soon as new EVIDENCE arises to contradict it. it is then disproved and a new theory is arisen. It's amazing how we find physical evidence on the daily and even disprove other scientists theories but still the only evidence for your religion is here-say and parchments that may have been made up. The blind faith you require in your religion is what doesn't allow your opinion to sway.

That my friend is why this argument will never be won.

Yes! Our DNA is the same,,,with a few minor exceptions....YES?????NO???? or at least that is what I saw when I was in the Medical field. You blood is the same as mine, your body overall looks the same as mine. Our Faces and Brains differentiate us. Even then, we are the same just different memories and a big nose, little nose, pointy nose, etc.(exceptions I spoke of).

How does that account for different blood types? Isn't Incest a sin? a chickens body looks the same as the next albeit size differences, that doesn't mean they come from the same chicken does it? Where does racial differences come into the equation if we come from the same source? How about different religions?

Yes we all have Hebrew in us. Take Saudia Arabia, They have decended from Abraham Like us yet they are consider Arabs.

That would be because they live in Saudi Arabia.

We know through the written word of Bible who they descended from. Keep in mind that Islam was not written until 600AD long after the first five books was given to Moses. We, on the other hand, are what is know as the 'Gentiles' and is Jesus is talking to. The Israelites are God's people and will always be so however as in the past the Israelites have strayed away from God and are doing so now as foretold in the Bible. Because of this, the Islraelites will have to go through the 7 years of tribulatons. WHY? because of non-believers and there are those Isrealites (that do believe in God) but do not believe that they should go through Jesus Christ to get to Jehovah, his father as laid out in the NT.

More here-say, If god really did exist why would he allow them to blindly murder and pillage villages? Also I thought lack of faith was a sin and you must believe in the almighty to even have a chance of getting to the end-game.

So much for my babling on.....it gives you plenty of fodder for the making...NO??????s

Oh I'm just the tip of the Iceberg,

Galaxiom is going to have a lot more fun


Have a nice day Blade
[/QUOTE]

 

[Bladerunner]

That is where you are wrong again! I couldn't re-site any book word for word as my memory is way to bad to even try!

Pretty sure Mayans tried to predict judgement day once.

Bet they feel silly now!

I wonder how you will feel or believers like you in the future when your "Judgement Day" comes and nothing happens.

Who knows maybe the Mayans got it right! 3 years on I feel no different, just a little older!

Yes, there has been quite a few people sticking their necks out and getting it chopped off. lol.......(Reminds me of a chicken when you are ringing it neck). The Bible gives events that are going to happen before the first seal is opened. One of those happened for sure in 1954. The Israelites went back home. HOME?????? to the land that given them by GOD thousands of years before. The Bible as in Genesis does not give any time parameters as to when this will happen. However, after the first seal is opened, there will be a seven year period of 'pure Hell' on earth. After which there will be a war. Again it does not state how long the war will go on. In the end, Jesus will cast and chain Satan and his demons into the bottomless bit. Those who still do not believe will have died by this time, since the Bible states a 1000 years of peace across the earth with Jesus as ruler. After the 1000 years. The earth and seas will give up her dead and judgement day will commence. Again No time parameters here either. Those that pass the test will be raised into heaven and those that do not will be cast back to a firey Earth. Oh, Satan will be released from the bottomless pit at this time. He will therefore at this time become the non-believers God.

A little bit different than that of the Myians...don't you think?

Blade

 

[ConnorGiles]

Is that what the Atheist books tell you or do you know it for a fact?

Believe it or not, I don't go out looking for Atheist books.

So you believe in talking animals then?

How about Cannibalism? Slavery?

Only a few Blade

Take a gander at this link:

http://likes.com/weird/25-crazy-things-that-are-actually-in-the-bible

 

[Bladerunner]

Not at all, Just give me some cold hard facts and proof that any god exists.

I have and your mind refuses to see it.

Blade

 

[ConnorGiles]

I have and your mind refuses to see it.

Blade

Nothing you have said comes close to a Fact or Evidence.

 

[ConnorGiles]

Yes, there has been quite a few people sticking their necks out and getting it chopped off. lol.......(Reminds me of a chicken when you are ringing it neck). The Bible gives events that are going to happen before the first seal is opened. One of those happened for sure in 1954. The Israelites went back home. HOME?????? to the land that given them by GOD thousands of years before. The Bible as in Genesis does not give any time parameters as to when this will happen. However, after the first seal is opened, there will be a seven year period of 'pure Hell' on earth. After which there will be a war. Again it does not state how long the war will go on. In the end, Jesus will cast and chain Satan and his demons into the bottomless bit. Those who still do not believe will have died by this time, since the Bible states a 1000 years of peace across the earth with Jesus as ruler. After the 1000 years. The earth and seas will give up her dead and judgement day will commence. Again No time parameters here either. Those that pass the test will be raised into heaven and those that do not will be cast back to a firey Earth. Oh, Satan will be released from the bottomless pit at this time. He will therefore at this time become the non-believers God.

A little bit different than that of the Myians...don't you think?

Blade

Your religion played it safe not using time parameters. That's the only difference.

I like it warm ! Did you ever read the commandments of the church of satan?

They are near enough the same as your own.

 

[Bladerunner]

Nothing you have said comes close to a Fact or Evidence.

in a typical atheist mind? I agree.

 

[ConnorGiles]

in a typical atheist mind? I agree.

I tend to see both sides of the fence, But I find it hard to argue the divide when your side is much more closed minded then my side. You cannot argue with someone who has enough blind faith to worship someone through the teachings of a book.

I am going to become a magician and write a book.

1. My magic will have been witnessed by many.
2. It was unexplainable
3. Proclaim my father was the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Lets hope in 2000 years time I started a religion.

 

[Frothingslosh]

Nothing you have said comes close to a Fact or Evidence.

To wit:

In science, a "fact" is a repeatable careful observation or measurement (by experimentation or other means), also called empirical evidence. Facts are central to building scientific theories. Various forms of observation and measurement lead to fundamental questions about the scientific method, and the scope and validity of scientific reasoning.

In the most basic sense, a scientific fact is an objective and verifiable observation, in contrast with a hypothesis or theory, which is intended to explain or interpret facts.

***

The speed of light in a vacuum being 299,792,458 m/s is a fact - it has been tested and re-tested and the value nailed down.

The force of gravity at 0 sea level on Earth being appx 9/8 m/s^2 is a fact, again confirmed through experimentation and careful measurement.

A legend about a spaking, burning bush passed down from pre-literate tribesmen and eventually written down, then copied by hand over and over again and translated from one language to another to another is just that: a legend, not a fact.

A story about a man claiming to be the son of God and describing dozens of miracles, but written a hundred years after the fact, in another part of the world, and then translated from Greek to Latin to English is also a legend, rather than a fact. There is no proof of these claims, no is there a single measurement or experiment or even contemporary writing corroborating this.

I also note with interest that all other accounts of Pilate indicate he antagonized the Jews mercilessly. Based on the actual records and history of his assignment to Judea, it would have been highly out of character for him to balk at having a single wandering troublemaker executed the way the Gospels claim he did.

 

[Frothingslosh]

I tend to see both sides of the fence, But I find it hard to argue the divide when your side is much more closed minded then my side. You cannot argue with someone who has enough blind faith to worship someone through the teachings of a book.

I am going to become a magician and write a book.

1. My magic will have been witnessed by many.
2. It was unexplainable
3. Proclaim my father was the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Lets hope in 2000 years time I started a religion.

So basically you're going to be L Ron Hubbard.

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

I also note with interest that all other accounts of Pilate indicate he antagonized the Jews mercilessly. Based on the actual records and history of his assignment to Judea, it would have been highly out of character for him to balk at having a single wandering troublemaker executed the way the Gospels claim he did.

The actual records?

Which sources are you using here? I was under the impression Pilate was recorded only in the same way Jesus was - ie later - and largely in the same sources?

So you cherry pick which non contemporary source trumps the other. Or indeed you cherry pick the same sources to believe bits and bobs of them, and use that to fit your beliefs?!?

 

[Frothingslosh]

The actual records?

Which sources are you using here? I was under the impression Pilate was recorded only in the same way Jesus was - ie later - and largely in the same sources?

So you cherry pick which non contemporary source trumps the other. Or indeed you cherry pick the same sources to believe bits and bobs of them, and use that to fit your beliefs?!?

Pontius Pilate is referred to in records that were created at the time he actually lived, as the Romans were very thorough record-keepers. He is referred to in both Roman and Judaean documentation of the time, as were his activities, including being called to account for antagonizing the local Jewish population over and over again, leading to the possibility of revolt.

In contrast, there is not a single item or factum mentioning Jezus of Nazarath or a man calling himself the Son of God until a century after he was supposed to have lived.

So yes, official documents written at the time the person they discuss was alive and a great official in the Roman Empire really DO trump unsourced documents of unknown provenance that were written a century after their subject died. It's that whole pesky 'verification' thing that gives so many theists so much trouble.

Edit: I really hate using wikipedia for something like THIS, but their summation is to the point:

The sources for Pilate's life are an inscription known as the Pilate Stone, which confirms his historicity and establishes his title as prefect; a brief mention by Tacitus; Philo of Alexandria; Josephus; the four canonical gospels; the Gospel of Nicodemus; the Gospel of Marcion; and other apocryphal works. Based on these sources, it appears that Pilate was an equestrian of the Pontii family, and succeeded Valerius Gratus as prefect of Judaea in AD 26. Once in his post he offended the religious sensibilities of his subjects, leading to harsh criticism from Philo, and many decades later, Josephus. According to Josephus c. AD 93,[6] Pilate was ordered back to Rome after harshly suppressing a Samaritan uprising, arriving just after the death of Tiberius which occurred on 16 March in AD 37. He was replaced by Marcellus.

There's not a WHOLE lot about him, but enough to know he was real and give an idea of how he acted. The main problems with using Josephus, admittedly, are 1) HIS sources have been lost or destroyed, and 2) He has been known to be incomplete or biased at times. He was still probably the most thorough Roman historian.

Even if you toss out everything but the Pilate Stone, that alone confirms he actually lived and was prefect of Judea around 30 AD. That's more evidence than there ever was of a wandering preacher named Yeshua being the literal Son of God and resurrecting himself 3 days after being executed.

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

Pontius Pilate is referred to in records that were created at the time he actually lived, as the Romans were very thorough record-keepers. He is referred to in both Roman and Judaean documentation of the time, as were his activities, including being called to account for antagonizing the local Jewish population over and over again, leading to the possibility of revolt.

In contrast, there is not a single item or factum mentioning Jezus of Nazarath or a man calling himself the Son of God until a century after he was supposed to have lived.

So yes, official documents written at the time the person they discuss was alive and a great official in the Roman Empire really DO trump unsourced documents of unknown provenance that were written a century after their subject died. It's that whole pesky 'verification' thing that gives so many theists so much trouble.

Edit: I really hate using wikipedia for something like THIS, but their summation is to the point:



There's not a WHOLE lot about him, but enough to know he was real and give an idea of how he acted.

Can you send me a link to any contemporary source - wiki has all non contemporary. Except one stone found in the sixties?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontius_Pilate#Historicity_of_Pilate

 

[Frothingslosh]

Can you send me a link to any contemporary source - wiki has all non contemporary. Except one stone found in the sixties?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontius_Pilate#Historicity_of_Pilate

You just provided yourself one.

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

The main problems with using Josephus, admittedly, are 1) HIS sources have been lost or destroyed, and 2) He has been known to be incomplete or biased at times. He was still probably the most thorough Roman historian.

So you'll happily use Josephus to credit pilate existing and how he acted - but not how he acted with Jesus.

You cant make this up - or maybe you can?

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

You just provided yourself one.

That only tells us he existed. I was after your facts of how he acted? The actual facts as you called them.
The actual facts of pilate detailing his character, that you used to argue against the death of jesus story?