Are you an atheist? (1 Viewer)

[Mike375]

The "power of reason", as you put it, evolved in humans due to natural selection. That power is NOT completely different than any other power than any other organism has evolved to possess. Yes it gives us power over other species, over our environment, etc. But it is a power derived from natural selection. It is a natural power. It is not god-given.

I did not say it was God or god given. Although if a supernatural kicked off the universe then the supernatural might be indirectly responsible. I suspect that we did not evolve from the same source as the chimp.

One of the things which is unique with man (and assuming evloution is basically correct) is man has evolved in the brain department. However, there is nothing to suggest that lizards/crocodiles are smarter than dinosaurs, in fact just the opposite.

Evolution with animals is basically restricted to physical attributes.

 

[Alisa]

Right then If it is war you want...

I like the Mars theory now anyway...

What a great thought we are all martians...

That would explain why my favourite clour is RED..

What's a discussion without a good war now and again?
I have always thought that we would become martians in the future - after we completely destroy this planet, it is comforting to know that there are 8 (or is it 7?) other planets out there just waiting to be dominated.

But you could be right, maybe we are already on our second planet . . .

 

[scott-atkinson]

Maybe you should write a novel . . .

Any way see you later none Martian Believer...


I am off to feed my 6 headed TwingTwot from the planet Tharg as he is hungry

 

[Alisa]

Wow! What a response! It is nice to know that people are still interested in spiritual things!! Or at least curious or searching. There is so much wrong with this system of things. It is definetely not going to get any better. Why? Because humans were not designed to rule themselves (Jerimiah 10:23). This whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one. Satan of course.(1 John 5:19) Well, why doesn't God stop him? Why didn't he just destroy Adam and Eve in the beginning and Satan as well and start over?

Well... the issue of Sovereignty is involved. (Gods right to rule). In the Garden of Eden Satan "in effect" told Eve that she did not need God. That God was holding something back from them and that they could rule themselves under his guidance. Satan wanted humans to worship him instead. (Gen 3:1-5) Well you might say..Why does that matter? Why did he just start over anyway?

Well...think of it this way...If you are a teacher and you are trying to teach the class something...however you have some rebellious students in the class...one in particular thinks he can teach better than you and that your way is wrong. What would a wise teacher do? Would he just dismiss the rebellion or send them out of the class? Perhaps. Or would it be better to have the rebellious one prove his point? Remember there are others in the class watching this. They may conclude: Is he smarter than the teacher? For the benefit of everyone a wise teacher would allow this one to prove his point eventhough the teacher knows that it would fail. The result proves the teachers authority and right to teach the class.

So in other words God has allowed Satan time to prove his claim eventhough he knows it would fail. Remember other angels were watching these events unfold in early human history.

This is why we see so much suffering in the world today...because it is under the control and influence of Satan. We have a great opportunity to prove Satan a liar and that don't serve him because of what we can get from him (as Satan claimed of the faithful man Job) (Job 2:2-5)

Soon God will put a end to all the suffering that is going on. He is not going to allow Satan to continue to mislead the entire earth. The last days are spoken of at (2 Tim 3:1-5) this describes the attitude of people in the last days. Pay attention to the signs! Just as in Noahs Day wickedness was rampant on the earth. Just as that wicked generation was wiped out so the present system of things will be. (Matt 24:36-38)

A wonderful future awaits those who do not follow the same course as this wicked generation (Psalms 37:29) Help is on the way!!

Feel free to look up these scriptures in youe own copy of the Bible.

See ya!

Humans have no trouble with infinitely anthropomorphizing god. However, it is much simpler to accept the fact that things go wrong because there IS no god than to make up fairy tales to explain how things could be so wrong and how at the same time there could still be a god.

 

[thisisntwally]

Ah, the ego run rampent...












i voted.

 

[Pauldohert]

Because when they are older, they will understand that the house fairy was just a childhood character, like mickey mouse that they have simply outgrown.

People who teach their children to believe in god intend them to REALLY believe it, not just for their childhood.

When they get older they could read Dawkins. You could teach them with the idea they will be educated later on and think it rubbish.

Is the risk that they think Dawkins may be wrong too great a one to take?

What do they get from Sunday school then? Do you tell them when they come back to ignore all but atheist/agnostic stuff cos the other stuff is just for the uneducated and those who don't have the house fairy?

 

[Alc]

What do they get from Sunday school then? Do you tell them when they come back to ignore all but agnostic stuff thats just for the uneducated and those who don't have the house fairy?

How about the fact that, for each of the religions they learn about, there are plenty of others who believe that it's wrong?

 

[gmatriix]

Alisa, why do you not believe in God? What happened to make you feel this way? Please look up the scriptures I mentioned. There is still time...before the destruction of the system of things is here. It will start will the destruction of false religion. The governments will do this (according to Bible prophecy) In the future the United Nations will destroy false religion. Maybe because you see the hypocrisy in religion today is why you feel this way. I don't blame you..but the fact remains..the last days are upon us.

I know this does not seem likely today that this will happen. But just think about it...What is the major cause of conflicts today? "Religion" The governments (UN) will gain power in the future and they will destroy religion according to the prophecy.

You don't have to believe me..I am nobody......just watch and see for yourself....I know because this is what the bible says....I am very concerned...I hope that you will find the answers that you are looking for Alisa....

All have a good day!

bye

 

[Alisa]

When they get older they could read Dawkins. You could teach them with the idea they will be educated later on and think it rubbish.

Is the risk that they think Dawkins may be wrong too great a one to take?

What do they get from Sunday school then? Do you tell them when they come back to ignore all but atheist/agnostic stuff cos the other stuff is just for the uneducated and those who don't have the house fairy?

You seem to be saying that I should use god as a tactic to get my children to do what they are supposed to do. Doesn't religion tell you that you are supposed to believe in god with no guarentee of a reward? I thought you only get into heaven if you *really* believe . . . Do you sincerely think god should be in the same category as the tooth fairy?

I have argued previously in this thread that one of the reasons that religion is so prevalent is because children believe what their parents tell them. Knowing this, why would I tell them to believe something that I do not think is true? That would be akin to teaching my children to be racist if I am not a racist.

As far as what they learn at Sunday school, they learn about different cultures and their cultural/religious practices all around the world. They are not taught to take those beliefs as their own, unquestioningly. They are taught to take from each culture that which is valuable to them personally.

 

[Alisa]

Alisa, why do you not believe in God? What happened to make you feel this way? Please look up the scriptures I mentioned. There is still time...before the destruction of the system of things is here. It will start will the destruction of false religion. The governments will do this (according to Bible prophecy) In the future the United Nations will destroy false religion. Maybe because you see the hypocrisy in religion today is why you feel this way. I don't blame you..but the fact remains..the last days are upon us.

I know this does not seem likely today that this will happen. But just think about it...What is the major cause of conflicts today? "Religion" The governments (UN) will gain power in the future and they will destroy religion according to the prophecy.

You don't have to believe me..I am nobody......just watch and see for yourself....I know because this is what the bible says....I am very concerned...I hope that you will find the answers that you are looking for Alisa....

All have a good day!

bye

Are you for real?

 

[thisisntwally]

Is the risk that they think Dawkins may be wrong too great a one to take?

What i find admirable, is that even as strong as he comes on, Dawkins still acknowledges that he may be wrong, as unlikely as he believes that to be. In my opinion, the failure of religion is that they invariably take the stance that they are RIGHT, that they KNOW, and as such everyone else is WRONG. It is this laughable claim that we, as 'rational actors' have even the slightest comprehension of the swirling multidimensional universe et al. that makes it quite easy to disregard the religious perspective. in my opinion...

 

[Rich]

.

I do however believe perhaps optimistically that we go to a better place after death.

What about cats dog ants, etc are they going there too or is it reserved just for man?

 

[Rich]

Do you think that we just rot and decompose into the ground...

Yes
.

If that is the case then it would be a sad end to a uniquely engineered being!!

No it's not, it's part of a recyling process that's gone on for billions of years, we go back to from where we first came

 

[Rich]

An animal is different with pain because it can't reason what the pain might mean for the future.

You've obviously never seen a dog or tiger with toothache

 

[Rabbie]

Although you posted this to Mike, it is akin to our discussion also.

I do not claim that we are Made by God, or our 'Powers' are God Given.

All I am saying is that we are special over all the other species on our planet, and that must be for a reason..

Perhaps if the only reason is for us to make the world a better place for all the other species...

The only way we are "special" over other animals is our highly developed brain. Our basic bio-chemistry is very similar to other animals on this planet leading to the conclusion that we have common origins. I think it is typical human arrogance to feel that there must be a reason. If it is the reason you give above I don't think we are doing a very good job at it with more and more natural environment being destroyed only to benefit humans, global warming etc. The huge growth in human population over the last 50 years must have detrimental effects for other creatures on this planet.

 

[Mike375]

You've obviously never seen a dog or tiger with toothache

If emotional response was an issue then they would experience greater discomfort.

 

[Pauldohert]

Doesn't religion tell you that you are supposed to believe in god with no guarentee of a reward? I thought you only get into heaven if you *really* believe

You clearly have it wrong somewhere?

Do you sincerely think god should be in the same category as the tooth fairy?

What in your opinion is the differance?

I have argued previously in this thread that one of the reasons that religion is so prevalent is because children believe what their parents tell them.

But what are the others - that makes the tooth fairy and God differant.

That would be akin to teaching my children to be racist if I am not a racist.


As far as what they learn at Sunday school, they learn about different cultures and their cultural/religious practices all around the world. They are not taught to take those beliefs as their own, unquestioningly. They are taught to take from each culture that which is valuable to them personally.

What happens if they grow up to value being a God fearing racist?

 

[Alisa]

You clearly have it wrong somewhere?

What in your opinion is the differance?

But what are the others - that makes the tooth fairy and God differant.

What happens if they grow up to value being a God fearing racist?

The difference is that you are supposed to really believe in god, whereas you are only supposed to believe in the tooth fairy until you stop losing teeth.

Ha ha, that is a joke, right?
But seriously, if they choose to believe in god when they grow up, then fine. I think it is highly unlikely, but your children don't belong to you, you can't control what they will become.

 

[Pauldohert]

you can't control what they will become.

Can't or shouldn't.

Can't stop them being racist or shouldn't?

The difference is that you are supposed to really believe in god, whereas you are only supposed to believe in the tooth fairy until you stop losing teeth.

I hope you explain the differance to the wee ones - otherwise from what you are telling them there is no differnace 9if you belive in neither?

 

[Alc]

I hope you explain the differance to the wee ones - otherwise from what you are telling them there is no differnace 9if you belive in neither?

To a lot of people, there isn't a difference.
If my son gets to the stage where he sees Santa, God and the Tooth Fairy as being equally plausible, I'd see myself as having done a good job in passing on my beliefs. As long as he understands and accepts that other people will have different views, it's fine with me.