Are you an atheist?

[dan-cat]

I was trying - and, clearly, failing through my own lack of clarity - to say that one reason why good and evil magical beings don't necessarily need to counterbalance each other is that, if such beings exist, the whole notion of good and evil may not even exist, in their frame of reference.

Assuming the last part of that sentence to be true, the people who say that the Devil must exist, simply because they believe God exists would be using flawed logic.

A supernatural being beyond our frame of reference doesn't have to conform to any rules we set them.

This doesn't necessarily mean that this 'supposed' God is not presenting the actual distinction to us in a form that we can perceive.

Besides I don't think you'll find many Christians who believe that God cannot exist without one of his fallen angels.

 

[Alisa]

So, by your reckoning If I were an Ant then I would feel special above all other species....

Except of cause that an ant does not have the thought processes or brain structure to actually think anything like that..

I rest my case..

So you are saying that humans our special because our brains have evolved the skill to think about ourselves and our place in the world. That still brings me back to the same point. If you accept the theory of natural selection, then you accept that this skill evolved due to the evolutionary advantages it provided us. Why is that single evolved skill more "special" than the multitude of skills other animals have evolved that we haven't? I agree that we have attained more control over our environment than any other species due to this particular skill. But I still don't see how that makes us inherantly more special than any other species. More destructive for sure though.

 

[scott-atkinson]

So you are saying that humans our special because our brains have evolved the skill to think about ourselves and our place in the world. That still brings me back to the same point. If you accept the theory of natural selection, then you accept that this skill evolved due to the evolutionary advantages it provided us. Why is that single evolved skill more "special" than the multitude of skills other animals have evolved that we haven't? I agree that we have attained more control over our environment than any other species due to this particular skill. But I still don't see how that makes us inherantly more special than any other species. More destructive for sure though.

The point that I am trying to make, is that there is no other species on this planet that even comes close to us, if you look at other species on this planet there are lots of similies, Lions, Tigers, Frogs, Toads, cats, Dogs, these species share in some aspects some of the same mental and physical characteristics.

But there is no other species on this planet that can even be similied to us..

Why is that..

Because we are truly special...

 

[Alc]

....doesn't have to ...
....doesn't necessarily mean ....

Exactly. The initial question was to do with my would the Devil have to exist just because God did.
[

Besides I don't think you'll find many Christians who believe that God cannot exist without one of his fallen angels.

I haven't looked, to be honest, I was just trying to answer the question.

 

[Alisa]

The point that I am trying to make, is that there is no other species on this planet that even comes close to us, if you look at other species on this planet there are lots of similies, Lions, Tigers, Frogs, Toads, cats, Dogs, these species share in some aspects some of the same mental and physical characteristics.

But there is no other species on this planet that can even be similied to us..

Why is that..

Because we are truly special...

"comes close to us" - you mean in the evolution of certain aspects of our brains. But we don't even come close to dogs in the evolution of the sense of smell, or bats in the evolution of the sense of vision, etc, etc. There are a million examples where evolution has taken different species in different directions. Although many would like to believe it, there is nothing that sets humans completely apart. We ARE just animals. You still have presented nothing to back up your assertion that evolution of the brain is more "special" than any other type of evolution.

 

[scott-atkinson]

"comes close to us" - you mean in the evolution of certain aspects of our brains. But we don't even come close to dogs in the evolution of the sense of smell, or bats in the evolution of the sense of vision, etc, etc. There are a million examples where evolution has taken different species in different directions. Although many would like to believe it, there is nothing that sets humans completely apart. We ARE just animals. You still have presented nothing to back up your assertion that evolution of the brain is more "special" than any other type of evolution.

I disagree, I believe that I have given lots of examples as to why we are special.

Where are our similies, Dogs, Cats, Lions Tigers, Frogs, Toads...Humans, ?

And don't say any kind of Monkey or Ape as they simply do not compare in the example of the comparisons given...

 

[Mike375]

I agree that we have attained more control over our environment than any other species due to this particular skill. But I still don't see how that makes us inherantly more special than any other species. More destructive for sure though.

The ant, lizard and chimp go about life in basically the same way. On the other hand man has the power of reason.

Pain is a good example. Presciption pain killers such as Panandeine Forte.....30 mg codeine phosphate and 500 mg paracetamol....basically have the codeine to reduce emotional response to pain. An animal is different with pain because it can't reason what the pain might mean for the future.

I would liken animals to chemical explosives and man to nuclear power, in other words something completely different.

 

[Alisa]

I disagree, I believe that I have given lots of examples as to why we are special.

Where are our similies, Dogs, Cats, Lions Tigers, Frogs, Toads...Humans, ?

And don't say any kind of Monkey or Ape as they simply do not compare in the example of the comparisons given...

Define what you mean by "do not compare".
All the animals you listed eat, reproduce, are born, and die. They all have different food sources, different defense mechanisms, and different life cycles. Just like humans.

 

[Alisa]

The ant, lizard and chimp go about life in basically the same way. On the other hand man has the power of reason.

Pain is a good example. Presciption pain killers such as Panandeine Forte.....30 mg codeine phosphate and 500 mg paracetamol....basically have the codeine to reduce emotional response to pain. An animal is different with pain because it can't reason what the pain might mean for the future.

I would liken animals to chemical explosives and man to nuclear power, in other words something completely different.

The "power of reason", as you put it, evolved in humans due to natural selection. That power is NOT completely different than any other power than any other organism has evolved to possess. Yes it gives us power over other species, over our environment, etc. But it is a power derived from natural selection. It is a natural power. It is not god-given.

 

[scott-atkinson]

Define what you mean by "do not compare".
All the animals you listed eat, reproduce, are born, and die. They all have different food sources, different defense mechanisms, and different life cycles. Just like humans.

But they are similar to each other, a Dog is like a Cat, a Lion is like a tiger, A frog is like a toad, they are similar.

Perhaps because they have all come from the same genetic tree.

But where is our similie, we do not have one.

For example, how many apes, if we must use an Ape, have the same conscious abilities that we do.

Yet a Lion and a Tiger share very similar consciousnesses, as do the other comparisons I gave.

But we have none.

Why is that..

Because we are special..

 

[scott-atkinson]

The "power of reason", as you put it, evolved in humans due to natural selection. That power is NOT completely different than any other power than any other organism has evolved to possess. Yes it gives us power over other species, over our environment, etc. But it is a power derived from natural selection. It is a natural power. It is not god-given.

Although you posted this to Mike, it is akin to our discussion also.

I do not claim that we are Made by God, or our 'Powers' are God Given.

All I am saying is that we are special over all the other species on our planet, and that must be for a reason..

Perhaps if the only reason is for us to make the world a better place for all the other species...

 

[Alisa]

Although you posted this to Mike, it is akin to our discussion also.

I do not claim that we are Made by God, or our 'Powers' are God Given.

All I am saying is that we are special over all the other species on our planet, and that must be for a reason..

Perhaps if the only reason is for us to make the world a better place for all the other species...

If you think there is a "reason" then you must have an idea about the reason"er".

 

[scott-atkinson]

Any way..

We can discuss this for all eternity and not agree..

I have my personal beliefs and I have no right preaching them to you..

We can agree to disagree

 

[scott-atkinson]

If you think there is a "reason" then you must have an idea about the reason"er".

Hey who knows..

Maybe we came from Mars hundreds of thousands of years ago when we learned that our planet was dying and lead generations of lives in abstinance and as time went on we forgot about a spacefaring heritage.


Hey who Knows...

 

[scott-atkinson]

Hey who knows..

Maybe we came from Mars hundreds of thousands of years ago when we learned that our planet was dying and lead generations of lives in abstinance and as time went on we forgot about a spacefaring heritage.


Hey who Knows...

Wouldn't that make a great story though...

 

[Alisa]

Any way..

We can discuss this for all eternity and not agree..

I have my personal beliefs and I have no right preaching them to you..

We can agree to disagree

If you give up first that means I win.

 

[Alisa]

Hey who knows..

Maybe we came from Mars hundreds of thousands of years ago when we learned that our planet was dying and lead generations of lives in abstinance and as time went on we forgot about a spacefaring heritage.


Hey who Knows...

Maybe you should write a novel . . .

 

[scott-atkinson]

If you give up first that means I win.

Right then If it is war you want...

I like the Mars theory now anyway...

What a great thought we are all martians...

That would explain why my favourite clour is RED..

 

[gmatriix]

Wow! What a response! It is nice to know that people are still interested in spiritual things!! Or at least curious or searching. There is so much wrong with this system of things. It is definetely not going to get any better. Why? Because humans were not designed to rule themselves (Jerimiah 10:23). This whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one. Satan of course.(1 John 5:19) Well, why doesn't God stop him? Why didn't he just destroy Adam and Eve in the beginning and Satan as well and start over?

Well... the issue of Sovereignty is involved. (Gods right to rule). In the Garden of Eden Satan "in effect" told Eve that she did not need God. That God was holding something back from them and that they could rule themselves under his guidance. Satan wanted humans to worship him instead. (Gen 3:1-5) Well you might say..Why does that matter? Why did he just start over anyway?

Well...think of it this way...If you are a teacher and you are trying to teach the class something...however you have some rebellious students in the class...one in particular thinks he can teach better than you and that your way is wrong. What would a wise teacher do? Would he just dismiss the rebellion or send them out of the class? Perhaps. Or would it be better to have the rebellious one prove his point? Remember there are others in the class watching this. They may conclude: Is he smarter than the teacher? For the benefit of everyone a wise teacher would allow this one to prove his point eventhough the teacher knows that it would fail. The result proves the teachers authority and right to teach the class.

So in other words God has allowed Satan time to prove his claim eventhough he knows it would fail. Remember other angels were watching these events unfold in early human history.

This is why we see so much suffering in the world today...because it is under the control and influence of Satan. We have a great opportunity to prove Satan a liar and that don't serve him because of what we can get from him (as Satan claimed of the faithful man Job) (Job 2:2-5)

Soon God will put a end to all the suffering that is going on. He is not going to allow Satan to continue to mislead the entire earth. The last days are spoken of at (2 Tim 3:1-5) this describes the attitude of people in the last days. Pay attention to the signs! Just as in Noahs Day wickedness was rampant on the earth. Just as that wicked generation was wiped out so the present system of things will be. (Matt 24:36-38)

A wonderful future awaits those who do not follow the same course as this wicked generation (Psalms 37:29) Help is on the way!!

Feel free to look up these scriptures in your own copy of the Bible.

See ya!

 

[Alc]

...and as time went on we forgot about a spacefaring heritage.

You may have forgotten.