Are you an atheist?

[Rabbie]

Exactly my point. It is the motivation to deceive that is not really taught is it?

I disagree. Children learn from experience. If we give them a bad experience when they are honest they will be tempted to lie to avoid it. if they get a away with the lie this behaviour will be re-inforced.

I think this is teaching children to lie.

 

[dan-cat]

After 1500 posts arguing about something nobody can prove or disprove (ie the existence of the supernatural or God) we are now discussing something nobody can prove ie how children would behave without the guidance for good or bad of adults since they come into contact with and are therefore influenced by them from day1,

Lord of the Flies was one of heck of a book and not too far wide of the mark I'd wager.

 

[dan-cat]

I disagree. Children learn from experience. If we give them a bad experience when they are honest they will be tempted to lie to avoid it. if they get a away with the lie this behaviour will be re-inforced.

I think this is teaching children to lie.

Yes but where does this capacity to learn come from?

 

[dan-cat]

It sounds like we may be getting close to discussing the point of Hell here.

Brian

Nah, not for me. Eternal punishment is pointless...


from my own frame of reference lol

 

[dan-cat]

Oh yes, we are ALL born with chi.

There are people who are born with the inability to adapt. Those poor souls end up in the employment of the council, where their chi is scraped off together with their capacity for hope; aspiration or optimism.

So there is a hell?

 

[Alisa]

Do you expose them to the concept of God at home? Or just the tooth fairy?

Just the tooth fairy.

 

[dan-cat]

I'm interested where my chi is at. Is there an online chi-o-meter?

 

[Rabbie]

My point is, is that the source of the punishment is irrelevant. If a child touches a candle flame it learns not to do it again. It's born with the capacity to adapt.

I quite agree. I would say that the capacity to adapt is fundamental to the ability to survive. Since nearly all animals have this capacity I would suggest it comes from our genes. Organisms that do not learn from their mistakes are not going to thrive and it seems a good evolutionary characteristic to have.

 

[Alisa]

You really believe this statement? Think back to when you children were say are 2 to 4 years old. When they broke something and you asked them if they did it and they told you no. When you came home from a friends house and they had taken a toy home with them that belonged to your friends child. When they throw a fit cause they can't have there way or bite, scratch, punch a kid cause the kid did not give them what they wanted. If it was in their human nature to have morals then why do they lie, without being taught? Steal, without being taught to? Be selfish and even violent, without being taught to be? I think little kids exhibit what we as humans really are until be are taught to be civil, show respect, and have morals.

Yes I do believe it to be true. Humans are evolved to parent their young. No matter what country you go to, or what culture you study, you will find that all humans take care of their children for at least a few years, and that this parenting ALWAYS includes instruction in the social contract of that culture, i.e. what is right and wrong, what is acceptable and unacceptable, and what are the punishments and rewards. Therefore, by nature, humans are evolved to instruct their young in moral behaviour. Supernanny notwithstanding, in general, all parents at least attempt to do this, regardless of their religion, or lack thereof. That is why it is a false argument to claim that you "need" religion to have a moral compass. That is simply not the case.

 

[Alisa]

Originally Posted by georgedwilkinson
Also, something that I wouldn't expect a non-believer to understand is the relationship with God that is in question here. To have a deep belief in a supreme being and a faith in said being requires a relationship of a type. I've found, in my personal life, that this is a relationship that is more enduring and satisfying that all the other relationships (which are also great). You may say (hopefully only in your mind) that it is all in my mind/the mind of the "believer". That is a fair thing for you to question (hopefully discretely). And your supposition may even be true, though I don't believe so. But if your supposition is true, it still doesn't impact the perceived happiness I am receiving from this (virtual?) relationship. Your lack of belief cannot take it away from me, and I still enjoy the pros. This enduring faith and relationship is a third pro, per your request.

I am afraid I can't have a meaningful relationship with something I regard as imaginary. I do not doubt the happiness you get from your belief but that does not work for me anymore than getting comfort from a whisky bottle would.

I would say that getting comfort from a whisky bottle is quite a bit more workable, given that the whiskey actually exists.

 

[Rabbie]

It sounds like we may be getting close to discussing the point of Hell here.

Brian

Brian, as an atheist I deny the existence of Hell. I would suggest the idea has been thought up by organised religion as a means of keeping their followers in line. Which is probably the answer to your question.

 

[Rabbie]

I'm interested where my chi is at. Is there an online chi-o-meter?

Have you tried googling for it.

 

[Alisa]

I would just like to pop in here and try to end this thread, since it is already as old as the stone age...

To answer the basic question: Are you an atheist?

The answer for me is: "No comment", because I don't want to get shot after giving a "real" answer (kind of like nonsense politics, no??)

Why are you trying to end my thread?

 

[dan-cat]

I quite agree. I would say that the capacity to adapt is fundamental to the ability to survive. Since nearly all animals have this capacity I would suggest it comes from our genes. Organisms that do not learn from their mistakes are not going to thrive and it seems a good evolutionary characteristic to have.

So leading on from this. It takes very little, perhaps nothing at all, for a child to work out methods of its own to adapt, or in this case, avoid punishment. It simply tells the parent what they need to hear.

 

[dan-cat]

You might want to try at psychics-r-us lol. No? OK, try here then http://www.ipn.at/ipn.asp?AQB. I don't think you'll be able to measure it though. What is it with blokes that they always need to know the size? LOL.

Ok, I was thinking of a questionnaire or something, not a full-blown wire-up arrangement

 

[dan-cat]

Have you tried googling for it.

One day google will replace all need for communication, but that day is not today.

 

[Alisa]

don't worry Alisa, we won't let him end your thread. It's the coolest thread ever!

Thanks! Its a good thing too, otherwise I would get way too much work done

 

[Alc]

My husband just can't stand liars, to the extent that he never, ever, lies.

Oumahexi Washington? Has a certain ring to it.

 

[Darth Vodka]

whisky + whiskey

don't mix the irish with the scotch

 

[dan-cat]

If they can measure chi and you're born with it, perhaps they can create a machine to track back to the point of origination

To measure something you have to have a starting point don't you?