Attack on Israel

[The_Doc_Man]

Don't worry. Mr Biden is going over to sort it out, let's hope he doesn't doze off during talks.
Col

Col, in this particular case I have to totally agree with you. We don't give him the nickname of "Sleepy Joe" without reason. Trust me, THIS comment will NOT get you banned for USA-bashing.

 

[NauticalGent]

THIS comment will NOT get you banned for USA-bashing.

Just to add to this, this isn't really bashing a country, rather he is sniping its "leader". An opinion everyone is entitled to. Not being contrary to your comment, just wanted to put it out there!

 

[AccessBlaster]

Just what Benjamin needs right now is to babysit Biden. Will Dr Jill be there to show him where the exits are?

 

[The_Doc_Man]

A country without borders or without a common culture isn't a country. So, we do need some amount of uniformity. It used to be that we all believed in the American Dream. Didn't matter where our parents came from, once we got here, we assimilated. Now, we don't expect immigrants to assimilate. Instead, they bring their culture (not just their food and music) and want to implement it here. Notice how countries like Sweden and France and us are fracturing. There is no possible way to accommodate Sharia Law and what the US and western Europe think of as common law. They are in conflict. We don't let Mormons have multiple wives. Why should we allow Muslims to have multiple wives? We don't allow animal sacrifice either. Are we going to support polygamy for all? How about polyandry?

Why do you think that Christians and Jews are so unwelcome in Muslim cultures? The Muslim women see what it is like to be free and the men can't have that happen. They need their women to be content being barefoot and pregnant and uneducated beyond ~ 5th grade. That is also why some Muslim communities practice sexual mutilation of women. If they can't enjoy the sexual act, they won't be tempted to stray.

OK, first I DID say we need a middle ground. So I don't disagree at all that we need SOME level of uniformity. I agree that Sharia and USA Constitutional law are not compatible at all points and I agree that Sharia has no place here.

I must point out that the "American Dream" was always a dream, an ideal that might or might not have ever been attainable for everyone. When we look at the "homeless problem" today, is THEIR dream attainable? When we look at gay rights issues, is THEIR dream attainable? Who gets to define "the dream" so that we can all shoot for it?

The nation has changed in many ways since its founding. But when you say "we don't expect immigrants to assimilate" that is perhaps an oversimplification. If our country is at least the sum of its parts and we add more parts, doesn't the sum change? We have parades and celebrations of various cultures that are among our component citizens. But doesn't that mean that we changed to accommodate the newbies? In south Louisiana we have Cajun French celebrations, Islenos (Canary Islander) festivals, Irish-American parades, Italian-American parades, ... the list goes on and I haven't even gotten to the Asian culture. Here, we celebrate their cultures and their contributions to OUR culture. The trick - and I am the first to admit that it is a BIG COMPLEX trick - is to figure out what part of an immigrant culture is good to keep and what parts we must discard or outright banish. The question is are we a MELTING pot where multiple inputs can blend, or are we an injection mold system where everything always comes out looking exactly the same? Where's the fun in that?

When you say "assimilated" are you talking like Star Trek's Borg does assimilation, leaving you with nothing of who you were? If so, why would people want to come here at all? Star Trek addressed this in another couple of episodes with Spock's medal, the IDIC - Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combination. You can laugh if you wish for me referencing Star Trek twice, but the whole philosophy of that show WAS a form of the American Dream where many very different kinds of people were first RECOGNIZED as people and second were allowed to be different sometimes as long as they didn't interfere negatively with someone else's life. So when you say "American Dream".... whose dream would that be?

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Just what Benjamin needs right now is to baby sit Biden. Will Dr Jill be there to show him where the exits are?

Maybe he needs to bring his dog Commander along for protection. That dog even bites Secret Service agents. (11 times so far.)

 

[AccessBlaster]

Pretty sure he's going there to offer asylum to the Palestinians, judging from our southern border.

 

[Steve R.]

Don't worry. Mr Biden is going over to sort it out, let's hope he doesn't doze off during talks.
Col

Regretfully, Biden is following Obama's anti-Israeli and pro-Iranian policies. That does not bode well for Israel.

 

[Steve R.]

Just what Benjamin needs right now is to babysit Biden. Will Dr Jill be there to show him where the exits are?

Biden, a while back, dissed Netanyahu (Biden also follows Obama's anti-Israeli and pro-Iranian policies).
It must be extremely difficult for Netanyahu to be next to Biden without throwing-up.

 

[Steve R.]

Biden's trip to the Middle East will be to the detriment of Israel. Biden, as previously expressed, follows Obama's anti-Israeli and pro-Iranian policies. It can therefore be inferred that any negotiations Biden undertakes in will be tainted by those viewpoints.

 

[AccessBlaster]

Hopefully Mr Magoo doesn't start WWW3 while he's there.

 

[ColinEssex]

Col, in this particular case I have to totally agree with you. We don't give him the nickname of "Sleepy Joe" without reason. Trust me, THIS comment will NOT get you banned for USA-bashing.

I wasn't bashing the USA. There are plenty of videos showing Biden napping during conferences or meetings.
Brilliant isn't it, I make a comment based on the truth and a moderator automatically thinks 'can I ban colin?' In this case - no.

I can't bloody win.
Col

 

[Edgar_]

Are you suggesting that you are not manipulated by propaganda and therefore have weak beliefs?

OH YES. Weak beliefs like:

hold on, I'm not too sure about that, could very well be propaganda, so, where is your irrefutable evidence about that

Indeed, this level of skepticism should be the standard for everyone. If anyone fails to adopt this mindset, it's time to reevaluate their approach, regardless of their stance, it's propaganda in times of war.

 

[Jon]

Yes, all those missiles sent to Israel could just be propaganda from the Israelis, and the images are all just AI generated.

I agree that we should not believe everything we are told, but it does not mean we cannot have strong beliefs and that weak beliefs are superior.

 

[Pat Hartman]

Sadly, by the time the actual truth comes out, if it ever does, Palestine will be so devastated and its helpless people so full of hatred, we don't know what's actually going to happen next, but peace doesn't seem likely.

We already know what happened. It is on video and all over everywhere. Exactly how dangerous were the people at the concert that were mowed down by gunfire or kidnapped before our very eyes? Is this a case of "believe your favorite talking head" - they can't actually be called "news" anchors.

What does the Geneva convention say about the targeting of civilians. Oh, OK, Hamas didn't sign it so their atrocious acts don't count.

I notice many here have had such a hard time being questioned about that strong belief, of Israel's innocence, that the only likely conclusion is that I'm just in favor of Hamas and Palestine.

I find it amusing that you think that you are the only one in the discussion who knows what is really going on. I told you exactly when this hot war started. To refresh your memory, it was 1948 when the Britts partitioned Palestine into TWO states and then turned tail and gave the keys to one of them to the Israelis on the way out the door. There have been SEVEN official wars and a dozen more major incursions by Israel's Arab "neighbors" but who's counting? So, we started out with a two state solution. But the Palestinians weren't happy because they felt that the Jews deserved NOTHING.

This is a map of the existing Palestinian refugee camps.
Palestinian refugee camps - Wikipedia

The Palestinians who left Israel in 1948 did so because they were informed by their religious leaders (the High Mufti of Jerusalem was a good buddy of Hitler's BTW) that the Jews would persecute them. Some were forcibly evicted during the conflict that followed partitioning.

Why do we still have ~ 58 refugee camps 75 years after Israel became a state? AND SO DID PALESTINE!!!! This is an old article but it does explain the problem that existed at the time and which still exists today. The UN Wants the refugee crisis as do all of Israel's Arab neighbors. Jordan is the only country that allowed the refugees to assimilate and become citizens. Israel even tried to get the refugees to leave the camps in the West Bank by building new housing for them in Gaza but the PLO responded with death threats and the program stopped. The PLO slogan is a Palestinian refugee never moves out of his camp except to return home (i.e. to Israel)

Palestinian refugee camps - Wikipedia

Due to special rules of the UN, not only are the original refugees (dying off now) but their children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren, etc are also. Therefore this problem NEVER goes away unless all the refugees can return to Israel.

A newer article:
Why Are Palestinians Still Living as Refugees 6 Decades Later? | History News Network

Palestinian leaders have held the nearly two million refugees in the West Bank and Gaza as hostages. For nearly seven decades, they have insisted that the “right of return” of the refugees is sine qua non to the solution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

And here's one from the view of Israel
Palestinian refugee camps: Facts, myths, & illusions | John C. Landa Jr. | The Blogs (timesofisrael.com)

Notably, former Syrian Prime Minister Haled al Azm stated in his memoirs: “Since 1948 we have been demanding the return of the refugees to their homes. But we ourselves are the ones who encouraged them to leave. Only a few months separated our call to them to leave and our appeal to the UN to resolve on their return.”

Solutions to the problem have been routinely rejected by Palestinian leaders. In 2000, the Camp David accords offered Palestinians another opportunity for statehood. The offer included 97% of the occupied territories, additional land swaps, and $30 billion in compensation for the refugees. But, the proposal also required recognition of Israel’s right to exist in peace. Yasser Arafat rejected it.

This is the wall that separates Gaza from Egypt.

Here's one from Amnesty International confirming what I said about the prevention of assimilation of refugees in Lebanon.
Israel's refusal to grant Palestinian refugees right to return has fuelled seven decades of suffering - Amnesty International

Although the majority of Palestinian refugees in Lebanon were born in the country and have lived there all their lives, they cannot acquire Lebanese nationality, and many remain stateless and deprived of access to public services including medical care and education.

Several Palestinian refugees in Lebanon told Amnesty International how their hopes of pursuing professional careers and building a better future have been shattered as a result of discriminatory laws that bar Palestinians from practising over 30 professions including medicine, dentistry, law, architecture and engineering. Such restrictions have trapped many Palestinian refugees in deprivation and poverty.

 

[Pat Hartman]

When you say "assimilated" are you talking like Star Trek's Borg does assimilation, leaving you with nothing of who you were?

Of course not. What that means is that immigrants learn English - easier for the young than the old. Many will never lose their accents but their children will be fluent. Would you retire to the Costa del Sol and expect everyone to speak English? Would you expect government documents to be presented to you in English? No, you would expect to learn Spanish, at least well enough to interact with people. Hell, I even remember enough Arabic to scare a native speaker Our translator used to teach us curses. (the team was 8 men and me) They were very colorful. May the fleas of a thousand camels infect (sic) your armpits.

The question is are we a MELTING pot where multiple inputs can blend, or are we an injection mold system where everything always comes out looking exactly the same? Where's the fun in that?

The melting pot idea is that we welcome the good ideas (and food and non political festivals) from the old country but we don't want the bad ideas. You know, the ones that caused you to emigrate in the first place like Communism and Socialism. Not sure why we celebrate Cinco de Mayo here. Mexico doesn't celebrate Fourth of July there.

The problem is that there is a third option which the left pushes hard. And that is the don't assimilate path. Be what you were. Never become one of us. This is the Balkanization of America. Everyone is an island. There is no melting. This is what causes the polarization. If you are a naturalized citizen and you still think of yourself as a hyphenated-American, you are not actually one of us. We don't even make people give up their former citizenship anymore. You cannot be an American citizen and still owe allegiance to some other country.

I must point out that the "American Dream" was always a dream, an ideal that might or might not have ever been attainable for everyone.

The "American Dream" is why immigrants of the past came here. They wanted the opportunity a truly free society offered. You weren't stuck on the bottom rung of the ladder due to the circumstances of your birth. You could climb the ladder here through hard work. You don't have to make it to the top to be a success. You just have to improve your lot in life and that is easier here than almost anywhere else in the world.

 

[Mohsinadrees]

Indeed there' s no money in peace and USA need to sell its weapons / Fire arms.

 

[Pat Hartman]

We even arm both sides of many conflicts and this one is no exception. In addition to the money we send to Hamas (our Congress hates Israel), Biden also left 85 Billion dollars worth of the best military equipment my money can buy in Afghanistan and it is now finding its way into the hands of terrorists around the world.

 

[Steve R.]

@Edgar_ : Your position boils down to: "We (Palestinians) perceive ourselves as being oppressed. Therefore we are entitled to commit genocide against our oppressors (Israel) as a righteous war."

 

[ColinEssex]

Would you retire to the Costa del Sol and expect everyone to speak English? Would you expect government documents to be presented to you in English?

Most people on the Costa del Sol are English. There are so many ex pats there, it's difficult to find a Spaniard. There are English pubs, English chip shops and restaurants offering English food, not Spanish. It's exactly like England but sunny and blue sea. Everyone speaks English and no-one speaks Spanish.
Col

 

[Pat Hartman]

OK, substitute someplace the Britts haven't invaded.