Attack on Israel

[ColinEssex]

OK, substitute someplace the Britts haven't invaded.

How about Kuwait? Or is that American.
Col

 

[Pat Hartman]

No, the Britts occupied Kuwait until the 60's I think.
We kicked them out ~ 250 years ago.

 

[Edgar_]

@Edgar_ : Your position boils down to: "We (Palestinians) perceive ourselves as being oppressed. Therefore we are entitled to commit genocide against our oppressors (Israel) as a righteous war."

No. I think Israel, US and the EU are guilty of the genocide of the Palestinians.

The Palestinians who left Israel in 1948 did so because they were informed by their religious leaders

That's an euphemism. "Leave" is not what you do at gun point resulting in you keeping a "strip" of your own land. That also didn't occur in 1948, that's when the biggest offending result came up.

Yes, all those missiles sent to Israel could just be propaganda from the Israelis, and the images are all just AI generated.

I agree that we should not believe everything we are told, but it does not mean we cannot have strong beliefs and that weak beliefs are superior.

You can believe whatever makes you happier, or angrier, but Israel and its mates are responsible for the genocide of the Palestinians. That includes, but it is not limited to: old peope, women, teenagers, children, REAL innocent newborn babies (not propaganda products) and, last but not least, men. And it didn't start just a week ago.

 

[Steve R.]

No. I think Israel, US and the EU are guilty of the genocide of the Palestinians.

• Where are the manifestos calling for the genocide of the Palestinians in the US and Europe? The Palestinians have a mission statement calling for the genocide of the Jews.
• Seems there are massive pro-Palestinian rallies in both the US and Europe. How can that be, if the US and Europe are practicing genocide of Palestinians? Why aren't they being deported? Where are the prisons for holding the Palestinians? Any video footage of massive arrests and beatings of Palestinians?
• None of their "brother" Islamic states wish to accept them as refuges to save the Palestinians. Seems that they want the Palestinians to be used as cannon fodder for the propaganda value. That is not very humanitarian of them, yet the Islamic states accuse the west of being inhumane.

 

[Edgar_]

• Where are the manifestos calling for the genocide of the Palestinians in the US and Europe? The Palestinians have a mission statement calling for the genocide of the Jews.
• Seems there are massive pro-Palestinian rallies in both the US and Europe. How can that be, if the US and Europe are practicing genocide of Palestinians? Why aren't they being deported? Where are the prisons for holding the Palestinians? Any video footage of massive arrests and beatings of Palestinians?
• None of their "brother" Islamic states wish to accept them as refuges to save the Palestinians. Seems that they want the Palestinians to be used as cannon fodder for the propaganda value. That is not very humanitarian of them, yet the Islamic states accuse the west of being inhumane.

In case you missed it, post #134

 

[Steve R.]

In case you missed it, post #134

That answers nothing.

 

[Edgar_]

That answers nothing.

 

[ColinEssex]

To be honest, I tend not to watch the TV news, I don't have newspapers. Its all very samey. One country or region attacks another, innocent people killed. So to simplify -
x attacks y,
y retaliates
x says y are on their land
y bombs x and blames z etc etc

It's like two fleas fighting over who owns the dog.

Col

 

[Jon]

You can believe whatever makes you happier, or angrier, but Israel and its mates are responsible for the genocide of the Palestinians. That includes, but it is not limited to: old peope, women, teenagers, children, REAL innocent newborn babies (not propaganda products) and, last but not least, men. And it didn't start just a week ago.

The extremists believe the same as you, hence the recent murders in the UK, France (stabbed teacher), and Swedish football fans. Also in Egypt where a police officer shot two Israeli tourists. They justify their actions by suggesting the West together with Israel are responsible and are therefore justifiable targets. The Nazi's would also agree with you, since they had a pathological hatred of Jews, wherever they may reside.

To me, it seems to be a case of muslim against non-muslim. When Hamas targeted and then murdered those civilians, they had no idea if they were Israeli's, Americans, Jews, Christians or whatever. They just had bloodlust and wanted to vent their anger by killing other innocent people, and then shouting "God is great!"

 

[Jon]

It seems that those who support the Palestinians turn a blind eye to these simple facts:

- Hamas started this recent cycle of violence, yet again.
- Hamas targeted civilians, from multiple countries.
- Hamas sent thousands of rockets with low accuracy into civilian areas (yet complain when Israel uses a targeted response when defending themslves).
- Hamas has in their charter the destruction of Jews. Consider these statements:

'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him.'

'Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.'

Source: https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/880818a.htm

- Hamas was voted in by Palestinians
- The majority of Palestinians support Hamas. Source: https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8e1323fc1cad819c34da08fd87

AN IMPORTANT QUESTION:
If Hamas calls for the genocide of Jews in their charter, and you support the people who voted in Hamas, you too are supporting the genocide of Jews. How do you justify that to yourself?

 

[Pat Hartman]

That's an euphemism. "Leave" is not what you do at gun point resulting in you keeping a "strip" of your own land. That also didn't occur in 1948, that's when the biggest offending result came up.

Clearly, you've never studied any history of the events. Try this one:

A look into the long history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict

The Hamas terrorist attack on Israel this weekend comes amid the backdrop of a longstanding history of conflict over land and independence that has plagued the region.

abcnews.go.com

A second Intifada (2000) from Palestinian forces, which ended in 2005, led to the Palestinian people's autonomous control of the West Bank and Gaza.

In 2005, Israel disengaged from the Gaza Strip, uprooting its settlements in the region.

The following year, Hamas won an election to control the Gaza Strip, kicking out representatives of the PLO. The armed takeover of Gaza by Hamas in 2007 prompted Israel to impose a blockade on Gaza.

 

[Steve R.]

Joe Biden Touches Down in Israel as It Wages War on Hamas Terror

President Joe Biden touched down in Israel early on Wednesday morning, arriving in the wake of a deadly explosion at a hospital in Gaza.

www.breitbart.com

Now Biden’s only stop is Tel Aviv, where AP reports he’s expected to push for allowing critical humanitarian aid into Gaza during meetings with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Biden did give a speech where he did offer humanitarian aid to the Palestinians. A major mistake.

• The Palestinians through Hamas are the terrorists who are behind the attack on Israel. In war, you do not feed your enemy. You deprive them of resources to force them to surrender. Feeding the enemy only extends the conflict by providing them with resources.
• There have been numerous disclosures that much of the humanitarian aid that the US (and the UN) has provided has been repurposed into military uses to support terrorism. Given that, why wouldn't the humanitarian aid Biden is offering also be converted to support Hamas's terrorists acts.
• Are Biden's offer of humanitarian aid actually a precursor to eventually demanding that Israel agree to a cease fire and restrain itself from attacking Hamas as a humanitarian gesture?
• To the greenies. Biden spewed a lot of "green house" gases flying Air Force #1 to fly to Israel for a short one day visit. Furthermore, it appears that several Middle East leaders snubbed Biden's visit. Biden's visit seems to be nothing more than a photo-op. Biden avoids modifying his own behavior to comply with his green energy policies, yet that is what he forcing on us.

 

[Pat Hartman]

And today we are seeing videos of the hospital bombing as well as reports from our military and Israel that Israel didn't fire the missile. And not only that, the press is lying about the number of casualties since the bomb didn't actually hit the hospital building. It hit the parking lot.

Did Hamas bomb its own people deliberately to keep other nations from meeting with Biden today?

 

[Jon]

This is Claude 2's AI summary of the Hamas covenant found here: https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/880818a.htm

It gives great insight into their goals.

Here are the main points from the text:

• The Covenant of the Hamas is a manifesto issued in 1988 that outlines the goals of the Hamas movement, which is focused on destroying Israel through jihad (holy war).
• Hamas views all of Palestine as Islamic land that must be liberated from Israeli control. Liberating Palestine is seen as an individual duty for all Muslims.
• The Covenant calls for raising "the banner of jihad" against Israel and rejects any negotiated peace settlements with Israel.
• It contains anti-Semitic rhetoric, including calling for Muslims to fight and kill Jews and accusing Jews of scheming to take over the world.
• Hamas condemns the Egypt-Israel peace treaty and wants to bring Arab countries into the circle of struggle against Israel and Zionism.
• The text states that there can be no peace with Israel and that jihad is the only solution. Hamas sees itself as the vanguard in the fight against Israel and Zionism.

In summary, the Hamas Covenant promotes the destruction of Israel through violent jihad and rejects compromise or negotiations with Israel. It is staunchly anti-Israel and contains anti-Semitic elements. The main goal is liberating Palestine from Israeli control.

It rejects peace or negotiation, it chooses war. So the Palestinian civilians voted for war. You reap what you sow.

You cannot tell me that the Palestinian people who voted for this genocidal group are innocent, when they are voting for the murder of Jews. Do you not agree?

 

[adhoustonj]

This is Claude 2's AI summary of the Hamas covenant found here: https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/880818a.htm

It gives great insight into their goals.

It rejects peace or negotiation, it chooses war. So the Palestinian civilians voted for war. You reap what you sow.

You cannot tell me that the Palestinian people who voted for this genocidal group are innocent, when they are voting for the murder of Jews. Do you not agree?

How do we know their election wasn't stolen? Some people believe the same thing happened last US presidential cycle.

 

[Jon]

Maybe you think the recent polls are fake too, where it showed the majority of Palestinians support Hamas:

Poll finds dramatic rise in Palestinian support for Hamas

JERUSALEM (AP) — A new poll released Tuesday finds a dramatic surge in Palestinian support for Hamas following last month's Gaza war, with around three quarters viewing the Islamic militants as victors in a battle against Israel to defend Jerusalem and its holy sites.

apnews.com

Or do you have any proof to support your hypothesis?

Part of the problem is that if you vote in certain people, it is hard to get rid of them again. Look at Putin, still in power 20 years later. Look at Iran, where the Supreme leader has been around for nearly 35 years. Or even China, where the leader has broken tradition and gone for a 3rd term. Funnily enough, they are all allies of one another.

 

[adhoustonj]

Maybe you think the recent polls are fake too, where it showed the majority of Palestinians support Hamas:

Poll finds dramatic rise in Palestinian support for Hamas

JERUSALEM (AP) — A new poll released Tuesday finds a dramatic surge in Palestinian support for Hamas following last month's Gaza war, with around three quarters viewing the Islamic militants as victors in a battle against Israel to defend Jerusalem and its holy sites.

apnews.com

Or do you have any proof to support your hypothesis?

Part of the problem is that if you vote in certain people, it is hard to get rid of them again. Look at Putin, still in power 20 years later. Look at Iran, where the Supreme leader has been around for nearly 35 years. Or even China, where the leader has broken tradition and gone for a 3rd term. Funnily enough, they are all allies of one another.

As of the latest polling per that article - 47% of Palestinians that don't think Hamas should lead them. That is almost half of the population.
Hamas is an evil, hopeless cause with unachievable and unproduction goals. Like cows supporting butchers.

 

[Jon]

In most democracies, a minority of people will vote in their leaders. An example would be say 45% Republican and 42% Democrat. This is normal.

Regarding the 47%, it would be helpful if you provided a source. Can you provide one?

 

[adhoustonj]

In most democracies, a minority of people will vote in their leaders. An example would be say 45% Republican and 42% Democrat. This is normal.

Regarding the 47%, it would be helpful if you provided a source.

The third paragraph first sentence of the polling link you posted.

The poll found that 53% of Palestinians believe Hamas is “most deserving of representing and leading the Palestinian people”.
So 47% do not believe that to be the case.

 

[Jon]

I see what you mean now. So you are saying that 47% believe that Hamas doesn't deserve to lead the Palestinian people, according to the poll?