Copenhagen, the wash up

[Mike375]

The so called experts who interpret them for their own agenda, tho' I have also stated as Adam did earlier that surely an intelligent super being ie God would by now have communicated better.

Brian

On the other hand the Bible might be only part truth and in particular the relationship between God and man is the false bit.

In my opinion if you start with a position of zero bias then given the information available plus general observation the most likely answer is a superior being. Maybe it is not supernatural but it can play with the laws of nature to the extent that relative to us it is supernatural.

However, all available evidence would suggest there is no relationship between this superior being (or beings) and man. Thus the Bible might be basically true in the sense it portrays a superior being but the rest of it is wishful thinking.

 

[Mike375]

Is anyone listening? How many people have gone out and actually tried to read the passage in question (the book of Joshua in the OT)? We just take other people's word? Why not read it yourself and see if God communicates with you? Communications requires 2 participants.

But George the argument can be like this:

For a sale to occur there needs to be good communication between the prosptect and salesman. Some salesmen communicate better than others and thus have a better sales ratio but never 100%

However, if God is all knowing and powerful then there should not be a problem.

Perhaps God is making it hard to test us.....but why test us when He knows the answer.

 

[Rabbie]

At the risk of repeating myself(an old man's privilege) there is no evidence for the existence of God or gods. It's just a human desire to have something to blame when things go wrong or to have a security blanket in a confusing universe. Just because we don't understand everything does not mean we need to invent a superior being without any evidence to support this

 

[georgedwilkinson]

Exactly. Which is why faith is an important part of (at least the Christian) religion.

 

[ajetrumpet]

At the risk of repeating myself(an old man's privilege) there is no evidence for the existence of God or gods. It's just a human desire to have something to blame when things go wrong or to have a security blanket in a confusing universe. Just because we don't understand everything does not mean we need to invent a superior being without any evidence to support this

That's about as far from faith as I can imagine. There is NOT SUPPOSED TO BE EVIDENCE of this Rabbie. For the ones that do have faith, the belief that God showed himself in the form of Jesus is all the proof they need. And for those who believe that a human being is simply THE church (as Jesus said to his disciples) instead of a church being a church, they need not ANY proof. Their passion for love just leads them to believe anyway.

In terms of the Christian religion, I try to stay firm to the story that God showed himself to his creation because he wanted to. He is not obligated to do anything (as the great flood shows, for Christians)

 

[Rabbie]

That's about as far from faith as I can imagine. There is NOT SUPPOSED TO BE EVIDENCE of this Rabbie. For the ones that do have faith, the belief that God showed himself in the form of Jesus is all the proof they need. And for those who believe that a human being is simply THE church (as Jesus said to his disciples) instead of a church being a church, they need not ANY proof. Their passion for love just leads them to believe anyway.

In terms of the Christian religion, I try to stay firm to the story that God showed himself to his creation because he wanted to. He is not obligated to do anything (as the great flood shows, for Christians)

Thanks for confirming my understanding that there is is not a shred of rational evidence to support religion.

 

[ajetrumpet]

Thanks for confirming my understanding that there is is not a shred of rational evidence to support religion.

You missed the point old man. Faith is the evidence. If you don't have it, then you have to stay in your own boat.

 

[Galaxiom]

There is NOT SUPPOSED TO BE EVIDENCE of this Rabbie. For the ones that do have faith, the belief that God showed himself in the form of Jesus is all the proof they need.

I don't have a problem with people choosing to believe in the ridiculous stories in the holy books. However they should not expect to dictate their values to wider society on the basis of that faith as they have done for many centuries, frequently using violent means to enforce their will.

 

[Galaxiom]

You missed the point old man. Faith is the evidence. If you don't have it, then you have to stay in your own boat.

It is the faithful who should stay in their own boat instead of demanding their misguided values be a prominent part of broader culture.

 

[ajetrumpet]

frequently using violent means to enforce their will.

Galax,

I have a lot of faith, but I am also someone that believes that religion is wayyyyy to controversial. It's too bad that religion could be a source of so much violence in the world. That's really not what ANY religion preaches, nor have any prophets ever preached to use violence as a means to a spectacular end. Don't you agree?

 

[Rabbie]

You missed the point old man. Faith is the evidence. If you don't have it, then you have to stay in your own boat.

To quote your good self " There is NOT SUPPOSED TO BE EVIDENCE ". Do try to remember what you said and don't contradict yourself.

And do stop being ageist. It's only a short step from racism

 

[ajetrumpet]

To quote your good self " There is NOT SUPPOSED TO BE EVIDENCE ". Do try to remember what you said and don't contradict yourself.

And do stop being ageist. It's only a short step from racism

try to remember that I am full of sarcasm. Being ageist is not even an issue here. It didn't even exist when I wrote that JOKE!

 

[Rabbie]

try to remember that I am full of sarcasm. Being ageist is not even an issue here. It didn't even exist when I wrote that JOKE!

Again we seem to have a definition problem. On this side of the atlantic jokes are supposed to be funny.

You may be full of sarcasm but you manage to give the impression you are anally retentive

 

[Galaxiom]

I have a lot of faith, but I am also someone that believes that religion is wayyyyy to controversial.

This controversy is the reason religion has been afforded so much tolerance. Political correctness teaches that we should respect all religion and that one does not engage in a religous debate in polite conversation.

Religions have always presumed to be above reproach and by and large society has afforded them this privilige while allowing the faithful to openly criticise the values of secular society. That time is over. Religion cannot be above public debate.

It's too bad that religion could be a source of so much violence in the world. That's really not what ANY religion preaches, nor have any prophets ever preached to use violence as a means to a spectacular end. Don't you agree?

Then you have not studied these books. They openly preach violence as a means to enforce faith.

The Abrahamic faiths all eagerly await the coming of a violent Armageddon where their brand will dominate the planet and everyone else will die. All those who worship the abominable Hewbrew monster are providing their energy to this goal. Osama bin Laden and George W Bush have made spectacular contributions to achieving their cherished Armageddon.

 

[Rabbie]

Galaxiom, Well said. It is amazing how a fairy tale will motivate decent people to do terrible things

 

[ajetrumpet]

The Abrahamic faiths all eagerly await the coming of a violent Armageddon where their brand will dominate the planet and everyone else will die. All those who worship the abominable Hewbrew monster are providing their energy to this goal. Osama bin Laden and George W Bush have made spectacular contributions to achieving their cherished Armageddon.

No offense bro, but what the hell is that?

I am skeptical of anyone who talks like this. Yeah, the books have many stories, some good some bad. But what is most important I think, is the common sense that you can find in them, rather than the belief in extreme violence as a means to ANYTHING.

At any rate, didn't have much fun with this conversation, but we sure exchanged some interesting ideas!

 

[Galaxiom]

No offense bro, but what the hell is that?

I am skeptical of anyone who talks like this. Yeah, the books have many stories, some good some bad. But what is most important I think, is the common sense that you can find in them, rather than the belief in extreme violence as a means to ANYTHING.

Armageddon is a key prophecy. The "truth" of the Bible is demonstrated in the fulfilment of prophesies such as the remarkable match between the story of Jesus in the NT and the predictions made in the OT. Those who worship stand in support of Armageddon regardless of whether they actively work toward it. It is there in the book and it is part of their faith.

Of course people simply choose which part of "God's Word" they want to believe. The Bible is so full of incongruencies that passages to support virtually anything can be found. For example, Leviticus is used to justify the denigration of homosexuals yet only a couple of passages away he tells that those with poor eyesight shall not enter the House of the Lord. Yet we don't see people with glasses refused entry to the church.

At any rate, didn't have much fun with this conversation, but we sure exchanged some interesting ideas!

As usual the faithful run for their lives when confronted with the reality of their beliefs. I am sure you are sceptical. That is one of the foundations taught in the faith. Anyone who is critical of the Bible, particularly those who actually sound like they could be making sense must surely be under the influnce of Satan himself. This logic has frequently been used as justification for murder.

 

[Galaxiom]

Galaxiom, Well said. It is amazing how a fairy tale will motivate decent people to do terrible things

Unfortunately I forget the name of the author but I love the statement.

Good people do good things, bad people do bad things, but to make good people do bad things requires religion.

 

[Vassago]

I have to disagree. If someone uses religion as a means to control their own actions and do terrible things, they are not good nor decent.

 

[Mike375]

At the risk of repeating myself(an old man's privilege) there is no evidence for the existence of God or gods. It's just a human desire to have something to blame when things go wrong or to have a security blanket in a confusing universe. Just because we don't understand everything does not mean we need to invent a superior being without any evidence to support this

But as I have said before if you accept there is life elsewhere then the odds must be high that some of that life is very advanced compared to us.

Given the size of the universe and "the fact??" that natural laws exist throughout the universe then if evolution is correct the presence of superior beings would to my mind be a logical conclusion as opposed to an invention.