Copenhagen, the wash up

[Galaxiom]

But as I have said before if you accept there is life elsewhere then the odds must be high that some of that life is very advanced compared to us.

Given the size of the universe and "the fact??" that natural laws exist throughout the universe then if evolution is correct the presence of superior beings would to my mind be a logical conclusion as opposed to an invention.

According to the Bible, in the begining there was nothing but God and the Void. God created everything. Defining God in terms of beings from another planet is not consistent with the description of God provided in the Bible.

Alien life, yes. Gods, no.

 

[Vassago]

According to the Bible, in the begining there was nothing but God and the Void. God created everything. Defining God in terms of beings from another planet is not consistent with the description of God provided in the Bible.

Alien life, yes. Gods, no.

Of course, the bible was written by man. The book of genesis was written by Moses through, what I will refer to as his interpretation of God's words. Most of the bible is exactly that, interpretation of what the human who wrote it was thinking at the time. It doesn't mean what that person wrote is actually what "god" told him to write. If you accept that the bible says humans are not perfect, then you must accept that neither were the ones who wrote the bible and may have misinterpreted what they were supposed to write. It's only logical.

Of course, if I were to run to Times Square and say that god spoke to me and told me things about the future and/or past and to spread the word on the rebirth of Jesus and the antichrist, people would write me off as a lunatic. Society only accepts this sort of behavior from primitive cultures. It's another example of religious hypocricy.

 

[Mike375]

According to the Bible, in the begining there was nothing but God and the Void. God created everything. Defining God in terms of beings from another planet is not consistent with the description of God provided in the Bible.

Alien life, yes. Gods, no.

But I am not about the Bible.

What I am saying is events, call them what you will, are not all chance but the result of superior beings playing about.

If it is a very hot day the insects and small lizards in the garden have a million years of instinct behind them and that instinct tells then what to do for the day. Then all of a sudden I decide to hose the garden. No, I am not supernatural but I am a being that can change their day.

 

[Vassago]

But I am not about the Bible.

What I am saying is events, call them what you will, are not all chance but the result of superior beings playing about.

If it is a very hot day the insects and small lizards in the garden have a million years of instinct behind them and that instinct tells then what to do for the day. Then all of a sudden I decide to hose the garden. No, I am not supernatural but I am a being that can change their day.

Does that mean you are more intelligent? A mosquito swarm can change your day as well, especially if one infects you with an even "lesser" species, like a West Nile virus.

 

[Galaxiom]

No, I am not supernatural but I am a being that can change their day.

You and the lizard are both decended from a comparatively recent common ancestor that emerged on this planet. Everything that happens between you is consistent with established physical theory.

That is a far cry from an organism that has independently arisen on an incredibly distant planet being able or even wanting to have an effect on your day through some completely unknown mechanism.

 

[Mike375]

Does that mean you are more intelligent? A mosquito swarm can change your day as well, especially if one infects you with an even "lesser" species, like a West Nile virus.

The point I was making is my changing the ant's day or the dog's day is beyond them.

The West Nile virus can be explained by us.

Actually I am trying to make two points. The first is if the superior beings do something one of the problems we would have with an explanation is science would not look in that area.

The second point is if such beings exist they don't have a relationship with us. In other words praying to them won't help

 

[Mike375]

You and the lizard are both decended from a comparatively recent common ancestor that emerged on this planet. Everything that happens between you is consistent with established physical theory.

That is a far cry from an organism that has independently arisen on an incredibly distant planet being able or even wanting to have an effect on your day through some completely unknown mechanism.

You are missing the point. As far as the lizard's life is concerned there is something that can interfere with nature.

Are you saying because it would be some completely unknown mechanism it can't happen. Consider the huge leap between us and the chimp. What would a being be like that is a few notches above us.

Or are you saying that human is at about the end of the road with technology?

 

[Vassago]

The point I was making is my changing the ant's day or the dog's day is beyond them.

The West Nile virus can be explained by us.

Actually I am trying to make two points. The first is if the superior beings do something one of the problems we would have with an explanation is science would not look in that area.

The second point is if such beings exist they don't have a relationship with us. In other words praying to them won't help

Ahhh, but it would be science that explained why you were sick. Science and technology is what has caused you and the rest of us to evolve and know what a virus is. In the past, people described most major illnesses as religious fodder, such as curses or possessions. We know better today, not because of religion, but because of science.

The second point, you never know. They may consider themselves gods who demand our worship. They may even be beings who places us here, thus actually having a relationship with us. There are too many unexplained things in the universe.

 

[Mike375]

There are too many unexplained things in the universe.

Agree.

All I am saying is the presence of superior beings must be a strong possibility.

 

[Galaxiom]

All I am saying is the presence of superior beings must be a strong possibility.

The probability of there not being other life in this universe is vanishingly low. More likely than not there are some more intelligent than us. (If not then they probably destroyed themselves as we seem to be trying to do.)

However the distances are incomprehensibly vast and all indications from Relativity are than any attempt to traverse these distances would unavoidably take a very long time.

Ah but you say time slows down for the high speed traveller. yes that is true. However it does not for the "stationary" destination. So despite being able to travel many lightyears through space in an apparently short time for the traveller, the remote lifeform would have had to have left home before the earth was even formed.

 

[Vassago]

At the same time, it's very possible there are more advanced life forms out there that not only exist, but know we do. Any intelligent race is likely to understand that making themselves known to us would be disasterous for them and for us. We would want nothing more than to do experiments on them and then fight each other over who gets to try and steal their technology. Then there are some among us who would completely freak out over the concept and not be able to psychologically handle it. Yes, it's best they watch from a distance and not let themselves be known until we are close to their level of intelligence or are at least capable of banding together as one race instead of bickering over political and religious differences as our race does now.

 

[David Eagar]

Agree.

All I am saying is the presence of superior beings must be a strong possibility.

I we are so superior, how come it's us that is stuffing up the environment (the point of the thread, by the way)

 

[scott-atkinson]

We would be very naive to think that we are alone in this Universe, even our Galaxy, our Earth has been around for Billions of years, Man has been evolved only a very small fraction of that time, just imagine how advanced we would be if we had been around just one fraction higher of that time..

 

[Mike375]

Ah but you say time slows down for the high speed traveller. yes that is true. However it does not for the "stationary" destination. So despite being able to travel many lightyears through space in an apparently short time for the traveller, the remote lifeform would have had to have left home before the earth was even formed.

So you assume the speed of light is a definite limit....no technology beyond the speed of light.

 

[Mike375]

At the same time, it's very possible there are more advanced life forms out there that not only exist, but know we do. Any intelligent race is likely to understand that making themselves known to us would be disasterous for them and for us. We would want nothing more than to do experiments on them and then fight each other over who gets to try and steal their technology. Then there are some among us who would completely freak out over the concept and not be able to psychologically handle it. Yes, it's best they watch from a distance and not let themselves be known until we are close to their level of intelligence or are at least capable of banding together as one race instead of bickering over political and religious differences as our race does now.

Would it be fair to say that what you posted would only apply if another intellgent race was in the same general ball park as us.

 

[Rabbie]

So you assume the speed of light is a definite limit....no technology beyond the speed of light.

A reasonable assumption given our knowlege of the laws of physics

 

[Rich]

I we are so superior, how come it's us that is stuffing up the environment (the point of the thread, by the way)

The headmaster's having his say, but when he no longer wants to it'll just be locked

 

[Rabbie]

I have to disagree. If someone uses religion as a means to control their own actions and do terrible things, they are not good nor decent.

I was actually thinking of the ordinary decent people who can be manipulated by their religious leaders to do terrible things. Not really their fault because they have been conditioned to believe what their leaders tell them

 

[Mike375]

Originally Posted by Mike375
So you assume the speed of light is a definite limit....no technology beyond the speed of light.

A reasonable assumption given our knowlege of the laws of physics

And an equally reasonable assumption in 1800 was the weight of explosive required etc.

If there is something that relates to the speed of light the way nuclear relates to black powder then the beings that have that technology could probably sneeze and change the oribit of Jupiter as well as doing it from 5 billion light years away.

 

[Fifty2One]

Perhaps, if it is so, they are not really bothering with us or our place until they have some need for it or us. Sort of the same way humankind ignores the needs of others and focusses on the wants of theirselves.
Case in point would be how the Canadian Government completely ignored Kyoto so they could allow the production of oil from the tar sands for benefit of the United States appetite. Now it has shifted a bit as the Canadian Government is ignoring Copenhagen in order to continue the same dirty production to benefit the fuel hunger of China.

At the same time, it's very possible there are more advanced life forms out there that not only exist, but know we do. Any intelligent race is likely to understand that making themselves known to us would be disasterous for them and for us. We would want nothing more than to do experiments on them and then fight each other over who gets to try and steal their technology. Then there are some among us who would completely freak out over the concept and not be able to psychologically handle it. Yes, it's best they watch from a distance and not let themselves be known until we are close to their level of intelligence or are at least capable of banding together as one race instead of bickering over political and religious differences as our race does now.