Coronavirus - are we all doomed? (1 Viewer)

[deletedT]

I really do not know for sure. It could be because:
1. If I did not do it now, I may not be able to do it in the near future.

2. There is a LOT of protesting going on and although the media would have you believe that the whole US is a war zone, it is simply not the case. Be that as it may, you never know where you might end up in your travels.

3. I live in a rural area and home invasions are extremely rare, but they can and do happen.

4. I do not trust Governments - no matter which idiot is in the white house and they are ALL idiots - and although I would be no match for any forces sent to my house, at least I would not be an easy target.

I realize all that sounds extreme and as a conspiracy theorist theme to them but this COVID situation has got me very concerned about how willingly the world's population has allowed themselves to be trained and coerced into blind compliance.

Sorry to make you feel more unsafe, but 3 days ago China confirmed the possibility of pandemic of a new virus (A new type of Bunya Virus).
5 dead, 60 persons hospitalized during the first 3 days.

 

[Isaac]

Oh my gosh - you gotta be kidding me!
And here the world just spent all of its money, and the USA even is out of toner cartridges for its money-printer.

 

[AccessBlaster]

Congratulations NG now take a class...

 

[NauticalGent]

I've actually have been trained and even qualified as "marksman" when I deployed with a SeaBee unit. I'm quite familiar and comfortable around guns, just never saw the need to own one...

 

[AccessBlaster]

To be honest I figured as much.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

For those familiar with classic Greek mythology, I own a gun simply so that I can be assured of being able to pay the boatman's fee.

 

[moke123]

Get a good lock box on a high shelf for when the kids are around.
(also dont piss off the wife)

 

[AccessBlaster]

He didn't exactly say he bought one, just the desire.

 

[AccessBlaster]

For those familiar with classic Greek mythology, I own a gun simply so that I can be assured of being able to pay the boatman's fee.

I thought the sixpence over the eyes covered that!

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Who carries sixpence any more? And besides, it was supposed to be golden drachma. But if you brought another spirit, you got passage and the other spirit didn't do so well.

 

[Isaac]

I really do not know for sure. It could be because:
1. If I did not do it now, I may not be able to do it in the near future.

2. There is a LOT of protesting going on and although the media would have you believe that the whole US is a war zone, it is simply not the case. Be that as it may, you never know where you might end up in your travels.

3. I live in a rural area and home invasions are extremely rare, but they can and do happen.

4. I do not trust Governments - no matter which idiot is in the white house and they are ALL idiots - and although I would be no match for any forces sent to my house, at least I would not be an easy target.

I realize all that sounds extreme and as a conspiracy theorist theme to them but this COVID situation has got me very concerned about how willingly the world's population has allowed themselves to be trained and coerced into blind compliance.

Tera's question made me think a little too. About 10 months ago I bought a 380 automatic and it was the first time I had bought a personal firearm in very many years. (I even went to a range twice to practice with my son).

I always knew it was a good idea for someone prepared and willing to do the right thing with it, but it had been a long time since I felt compelled to do so.

For me the answer would be fairly simple and would consist of four words. Too much unchecked crime.

I know the statistics about a gun being so many times more likely to be used against you then by you, but of course that's just one statistic. Even if it's true that out of all the people whose personal firearms and up discharging, perhaps 51% of them and up incurring a negative impact on themselves, that still means that I'm 49% more than those who have zero chance to defend themselves in case of a home invasion. Factor in that I don't have little kids being irresponsible with it and various other risk factors aren't involved, and I'm happy to have one. It gives me a sense of safety knowing that at least there would be something I could do if I hear glass breaking in the middle of the night, God forbid.

 

[deletedT]

Tera's question made me think a little too.

Mostly my question was about the reason for buying a firearm. I wouldn't ask the question if the reason was something about the recent riot or something else. But @NauticalGent started with : Not sure if I would blame the COVID situation
I simply didn't understand why Covid may end up to a desire for gun.

He later clarified the situation.

 

[NauticalGent]

He didn't exactly say he bought one, just the desire.

Right you are! To clear the air, I bought two: The Springfield Armory Hellcat (for the wife) and XDM Elite 3.8 for myself. Both are considered Concealed Carry 9mm. I have not been able to fire them yet, partially because ammo is so scarce...

 

[moke123]

When I was in my teens, a friends little brother and his friend came across his fathers gun and needless to say it didnt end well. That event has stayed with me to this day. Its the reason I have zero tolerance for irresponsible gun owners.
As I've stated before I'm not anti - gun and due to my profession have carried concealed for many years. There is no question that it provides a sense of security. In my 38 years there are 2 occurences where associates of mine drew their weapons. Both involved teen boys pulling knives on them. Luckily bringing a gun to a knife fight was enough to diffuse the situation but both were traumatized by the thought of putting down a teenager. Could you?

 

[NauticalGent]

but both were traumatized by the thought of putting down a teenager. Could you?

It would have to be in the heat of the moment and I would have to be in genuine fear of my life, even then I do not know. I dont even hunt because I do not like the the "sport" of it. I am sure the burden of taking human life would weigh heavily on me for a long time.

We will convert a portion of her MASSIVE walk in closet into a sort of "panic room" that will have a gun cabinet. We already have a bio-metric safe that will hold the keys.

 

[deletedT]

We never know how and when we loose the control over ourselves. The other day I saw a clip in Instagram. A man bumped into another one, an argument started and suddenly one of them drew his weapon and fired. One was sent to a hospital the other to jail. And I'm sure one of them regrets why he bumped into someone, the other wished he had never bought the firearm.
The one who fired had no criminal records. I'm not familiar with your law, but I don't think it will be processed as a self defense.

The problem is in cases like this, anger is the one who decides not our conscious. You will never know.

Most of you believe you need your firearm for your protection and security. But I can't understand why no one talks about how to secure the society.
If you have ever lived in a country that guns are not allowed, you may understand how having a gun in your home, or car or on yourself is strange for us.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

But I can't understand why no one talks about how to secure the society.

This is a valid cross-cultural question, Tera, and deserves a decent answer. Let's hope that I can give one that somehow evades my own cultural biases.

The USA is a relatively young country, though by far not the youngest. As a culture ages, some of its formative pressures become lost to history. Only the more important factors remain part of the culture. This is just human nature. We remember what is important and we tend to forget what is not so important. I'm sure that older cultures do not always remember why they chose one direction over another in every part of their history. Here is a rhetorical question for you... when did your people stop carrying swords or big knives? Do you know when - and why?

For us, the initial colonists to the USA from Europe needed their guns to survive by hunting because hunter-gatherer societies need less infrastructure than agrarian societies. In the earliest days, we had little or no infrastructure. So guns (and axes) were necessary during our earliest days. The infrastructure for agrarian societies adds the requirement to be able to protect the farm from predators. It would only take a few wolves to decimate your sheep or cattle. It would only take a few bison or deer or wild hogs to decimate your corn crop. We don't even need to bring in protection from marauding native Americans. Even without the human predators, guns were still necessary. As communities grew to villages, towns, and eventually cities, many people still needed their guns because they were guards against marauders of all kinds, this time including humans.

However, as the colonies progressed, the USA came to a feeling of being oppressed, which led to the Revolutionary War. There, those who had guns became part of the militia. Anyone who had a gun and knew how to use it was forced to take sides. I make no claims of exclusivity, because I'm sure the colonists were not saints, but a number of British atrocities brought about by overzealous officers - or those trying to set an example - led to strong emotions among those citizen-soldiers. It is a dramatization and not to be considered widespread, but the behavior depicted for Colonel Tavington in the movie The Patriot was not unknown.

Here is where the heritage became central to your question. After the war but before the U.S. Constitution was finalized, the colonies debated with much anger and much fervor. There was a vow that was the equivalent of "Never again will we be unarmed in the face of aggression." (Paraphrasing, you understand, 'cause I wasn't there.) In order to get some of the colonies to agree to join the nation, we had to draft the first ten amendments to the constitution, what we now call the "Bill of Rights." These amendments provided added rules and enumerated rights that eventually persuaded the stragglers to join the USA.

And now, the point of historical perspective: That happened less than 250 years ago. These events occured from 1776 to 1789, which means from 2020 is only 244 years back. That is not long enough for the stories to have faded from our culture. When I was in grade school, the USA had not yet celebrated its Bicentennial. We still heard stories about the rugged explorers, hunters, and trappers of our pioneering days. Our most recent states to join the union in the confines of the continental USA were New Mexico and Arizona in 1912, Oklahoma was 1907. Utah was 1896. When we talk of the "Wild West" we are talking about a time when current states were still territories with less law enforcement and military protection than we have now. Guns were still needed to tame those lands due to four-legged predators and two-legged varmints (who also carried guns). We are now talking about times within the familial memories of people who passed down stories from their living grandparents!

During all that time, the gun was the tool of taming a violent environment. Gun ownership in the USA has indeed diminished, but there are those who have that ancestral heritage that showed that the gun was the tool of personal protection. With us, that is still an echo reverberating through our families. Perhaps we are moving towards a time when guns will not be required. But thanks to my genealogy research, I can tell you of my great-great-grandparents who fought in the Civil War (on either side) and can tell you where some of my Confederate ancestors are buried in mass grave sites set aside for Civil War prisoners of war. The Confederacy lost that one - and probably should have lost - but it reinforced the idea that we needed guns in case the current government became oppressive enough to cause a true revolt.

That was one of the tremendous fears of our Founding Fathers - that the government of the USA would become equally as tyrannical as the remote governance of King George III had been. I will leave it to you to consider whether the current situation in the USA is one where you could successfully persuade anyone that we need to turn in our guns and trust the government. Given that factor in our culture, do you think we would?

I don't know if you are familiar with the work of graphic novelist Alan Moore or the movie V for Vendetta, but there is a significant line that has a lot of believers. "People should not fear their government; a government should fear its people." In the USA, we believe that our government derives its power from our continued permission as evidenced by our voting. We try to use the voting booth as a peaceful way to to assure that they remember that fact. You can use that general idea to see why Donald Trump got elected. With Hillary, a lot of us (including me) felt that she was "more of the same" and we had come to distrust that "sameness." The election of Donald Trump was essentially a "revolution in a ballot box."

Tera, I hope this helps you to understand better why we do at least some of what we do and why we remain adamant about having guns.

 

[AccessBlaster]

I have not been able to fire them yet, partially because ammo is so scarce...

And there is the rub. I have been saying to friends and family for many years, where in the constitution does it say the right to own ammunition? It doesn't. NG you may find you have to "roll your own."

I attended an NRA class when I was a teen in the 70's. Bought a few air rifles after that practicing gun safety. In 1983 I bought my first wheel gun, then two others shortly after. That's when I started my reloading adventures.

Reloading is a great hobby and after the initial expenditures the saving can be good. Also depending on your state, many components can be FedEx or UPS direct.

Again congrats and safe shooting!

 

[Steve R.]

The USA is a relatively young country, though by far not the youngest. As a culture ages, some of its formative pressures become lost to history. Only the more important factors remain part of the culture. This is just human nature. We remember what is important and we tend to forget what is not so important. I'm sure that older cultures do not always remember why they chose one direction over another in every part of their history. Here is a rhetorical question for you... when did your people stop carrying swords or big knives? Do you know when - and why?

For us, the initial colonists to the USA from Europe needed their guns to survive by hunting because hunter-gatherer societies need less infrastructure than agrarian societies. In the earliest days, we had little or no infrastructure. So guns (and axes) were necessary during our earliest days. The infrastructure for agrarian societies adds the requirement to be able to protect the farm from predators. It would only take a few wolves to decimate your sheep or cattle. It would only take a few bison or deer or wild hogs to decimate your corn crop. We don't even need to bring in protection from marauding native Americans. Even without the human predators, guns were still necessary. As communities grew to villages, towns, and eventually cities, many people still needed their guns because they were guards against marauders of all kinds, this time including humans.

My response really has nothing to with "guns". What it does concern is cultural evolution; or, for the US the "closing for the frontier". Fredrick Jackson Turner, as a brief summary, advocated that the "west" served as a "safety valve" for the settled parts of this country. Those disaffected with society could leave. Now, they can't, society is stuck with dealing with them, in-place. Which, can lead to the question that the current unrest in the US could, in part, be attributed to those disaffected people not being able to escape society by moving to new virgin territory.

There is also a role for Theodore Roosevelt in this cultural evolution. But I have not yet developed a good theory on that. I view Theodore Roosevelt as representing a transition from an undefined "old" style to a "new" style. The "old" style being things like low population density, the "empty west", big game hunting, and not caring too much about the environment. The "new" style higher population densities, the "filling" of the "empty west", creating National Parks to protect the environment, and providing people with an opportunity to enjoy this countries natural resources.

 

[deletedT]

@The_Doc_Man
Million thanks for the detailed reply. I actually didn't know lots of what you explained about your history. It was a good read. I had to go through it three times to be sure I understand the situation.

In case of your question about our knives and swords, I don't go into details because I know it will be boring. In simple, about 100 years ago (I think) Samurais were a real threat for government. They were a wall between poor people and government defending them against new laws.. Our government to get ride of Samurais, simply banned knives and swords. And arrested Samurais.
The Last Samurai, starring Tom Cruise shows that era in our history. (won 4 Oscars).


Back to what you said, even with that background in your history, I still think some people or organizations (NRA?) are escalating the situation. I can't understand why M134 Electric Machine Gun or AR-15 can be purchased in a shop (even if a license is necessary). From what I see in documentaries (if they are true) you can buy weapons that are made to be used in a war zone, and it's much more than you explained above.

But, still I have to think about your response. What you explained above was too rich for my 512MB brain.