Delusional cooperation (1 Viewer)

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OSfllwr

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The things in Iraq took yet another wrong turn when Bush forced Maliki to meet him in Jordan. The meeting did not help Republicans in the elections, but broke the Iraqi coalition. The faction of Shiite cleric al-Sadr walked out of the government coalition, as promised, because of the meeting.

No one in Iraq has a slightest doubt that Maliki is an American quisling. That’s ok with the people. In Muslims countries, rulers are not expected to represent population; the US and the Qaeda each tries to change that. Muslims are very extroversive and value fac,ade and rituals. Maliki could be a puppet, but he should behave like a tiger – Iraqi tiger. At least, Maliki managed to skip social meeting with Bush and Jordanian King Abdullah (Olmert ignored Arab mentality and met Abdullah several times, a PR disaster).

If that attention to rituals looks silly to rational Americans, it probably is. But that’s how it works in the region. To reach an agreement with Iraqis – rather than simply punish the Baathist state – the US negotiators would have to sit hours and days with various Iraqis, both bureaucrats and radicals, drinking super-sweet Iranian tea, chain-smoking on par with their opponents and talking, talking, and talking. That might or might not bring the desired results, but no other approach could deliver a stable, moderate, US-friendly Iraq.

To please his American masters, Maliki brought together fictitious coalition. Its Shiite faction does not include al-Sadr’s group, the main Shiite organization. It includes only a minor Sunni party, also non-representative. The coalition is advertised as moderate, but listen to the names: Sunni Iraqi Islamic Party (sectarians), the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution (sic) in Iraq, and Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (separatist organization, as the name makes clear).

The coalition is meant to squeeze Sadr out of politics. He would indeed go – into the urban battlefields. Sadr could show himself a good Muslim, promise to step down the fighting – and use the truce to train his forces. He needs time to grow the Mahdi gang into an army.

Sistani’s approval won’t cement the coalition. He is merely a religious authority. Religious power in Islam is very dispersed because every cleric and theoretically every Muslim could pronounce fatwas. People go along with famous clerics insofar as they opportunistically serve the mob’s wishes. Sistani cannot afford to condemn fighting the Sunnis, thus his blessing of the coalition could only be half-hearted. Moreover, Shiite militia includes few fundamentalists who would blindly obey Sistani. They are common guerrillas who only superficially subscribe to religion or ideology. They fight for the sake of killing. Their loyalty is with Sadr. Iran – al-Sadr’s sponsor – does not care about Iraqi Shiite bosses such as Sistani. Civil war in Iraq suits Iranian national interest: strong and hostile neighbor turns into protectorate.

Iran, not Sadr is the problem, but Sadr handsomely contributes to the situation. Oddly, the US loses its soldiers, kills Iraqis and allows still larger numbers to die in the conflict while al-Sadr, who orchestrates much of the violence, lives in safety. Why not assassinate him?

The White House PR people offended the common sense when they staged Robert Gates’ meeting with a dozen of handpicked soldiers who assured him that the army is on the right track.
 

Uncle Gizmo

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That is a very interesting, and thank you for bringing it to my attention. It gives me a better understanding of the conflict, and the differences in cultures, in particularly the rituals between parties.

I am amazed at how many rituals I see in my own and others' lives. It is a human trait, to follow rituals, and it is interesting to see that both parties are following their own rituals, which only results in increasing the conflict and difficulty between them.

You should have attributed this piece to the original Author whom I believe is:

Obadiah Shoher

Cheers Tony
 

ColinEssex

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OSfllwr said:
If that attention to rituals looks silly to rational Americans, it probably is. But that’s how it works in the region. To reach an agreement with Iraqis – rather than simply punish the Baathist state – the US negotiators would have to sit hours and days with various Iraqis, both bureaucrats and radicals, drinking super-sweet Iranian tea, chain-smoking on par with their opponents and talking, talking, and talking. That might or might not bring the desired results, but no other approach could deliver a stable, moderate, US-friendly Iraq.
The Americans have no idea of rituals or cultures in other countries they invade. Their main target is to get the [American selected] government of that country to think along American lines and be a puppet to the president. They do it the only way they know, with the bomb, invasion and killing anyone in their way.

Its absolutely disgusting how little regard the Yanks have for anyone but themselves and the Iraq fiasco proves it. Bush wants a democratic Iraq - he's on a loser, as we all can see (except Bush of course)

America is so self centred, thats why the world hates the USA

Col
 

Bodisathva

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ColinEssex said:
The Americans have no idea of rituals or cultures in other countries they invade...

Its absolutely disgusting how little regard the Yanks have for anyone but themselves ...

America is so self centred, thats why the world hates the USA
And a happy new year to you as well, kind sir :rolleyes:

...btw, you're in no danger of winning any Mr. Congeniality awards.
 

ColinEssex

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Bodisathva said:
And a happy new year to you as well, kind sir :rolleyes:

Its not new year yet on this side of the pond and

.btw, you're in no danger of winning any Mr. Congeniality awards.
Didn't know I'd entered anything

Col
 

Bodisathva

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ColinEssex said:
Its not new year yet on this side of the pond
Merry Christmas didn't seem to fit the occasion. C'mon, it's the holiday season, don't you ever lighten up?
ColinEssex said:
Didn't know I'd entered anything
Odd...from the incessant ranting, I could have sworn you were trying to prove something :rolleyes:
 
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Rich

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Bodisathva said:
I could have sworn you were trying to prove something :rolleyes:
I wonder how many Iraqis had a happy Christmas and can look foward to a peaceful and prosperous New Year:rolleyes:
 

ColinEssex

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Bodisathva said:
Merry Christmas didn't seem to fit the occasion. C'mon, it's the holiday season, don't you ever lighten up?
Of course - I'm less stressed today because Ken isn't here

Odd...from the incessant ranting, I could have sworn you were trying to prove something :rolleyes:
Its not "ranting" as you call it. Merely an opinion that the USA has but one method of dealing with local indiginous personnel and thats with the gun and not respecting different cutures and ways of doing things.

Col
 

ColinEssex

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Rich said:
I wonder how many Iraqis had a happy Christmas and can look foward to a peaceful and prosperous New Year:rolleyes:
Now they're going to hang Saddam - thats a shame, I thought they might re-instate him to bring order to the region. Thats what Iraqi's want, apparently

Col
 

Bodisathva

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Rich said:
I wonder how many Iraqis had a happy Christmas
Since 95% of the population is Muslim, probably not many :rolleyes:


Col said:
Its not "ranting" as you call it. Merely an opinion that the USA has but one method of dealing with local indiginous personnel and thats with the gun and not respecting different cutures and ways of doing things.
rant
  1. a loud bombastic declamation expressed with strong emotion
  2. pompous or pretentious talk or writing
  3. talk in a noisy, excited, or declamatory manner
could've fooled me :confused:
 

ColinEssex

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Bodisathva said:
rant
  1. a loud bombastic declamation expressed with strong emotion
  2. pompous or pretentious talk or writing
  3. talk in a noisy, excited, or declamatory manner
could've fooled me :confused:
and which one does my opinion fall into?

Col
 

Bodisathva

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ColinEssex said:
and which one does my opinion fall into?

Col
I'm tempted to go with "all of the above", but #2 fits more than 1 or 3, merely because there's no volume display for the posts. I can only imagine it:D

EDIT:
BTW, I'll also validate the question by saying it's a categorization of your posts, or the actual words you submit, not your opinion.
 

dan-cat

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ColinEssex said:
America is so self centred, thats why the world hates the USA

Col

You make remarks about a country that can so easily be applied to your own.

You do realise that the UK has been supportive and involved with this 'fiasco' from beginning to present-day don't you?

Hatred against your country is so great that terrorists are actually managing to convince your own born and bred citizens to attack you.

You talk of US insularity and yet you can't even see what is going on inside your own country!
 

Bodisathva

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dan-cat said:
You talk of US insularity and yet you can't even see what is going on inside your own country!
Remember, Dan, we despise in others that which reminds us most of the things we hate about ourselves...
 

jsanders

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dan-cat said:
You make remarks about a country that can so easily be applied to your own.

You do realise that the UK has been supportive and involved with this 'fiasco' from beginning to present-day don't you?

Hatred against your country is so great that terrorists are actually managing to convince your own born and bred citizens to attack you.

You talk of US insularity and yet you can't even see what is going on inside your own country!

Hey Dan,

What I don’t understand, is why two supposedly grown men would get so much pleasure out of vomiting half truths about people they know very little about and that live at least 3500 miles away.

Why continue doing it?

It’s obviously directed at the members of this forum personally, cause who else is here? Why would you go hang out in a place where all you do is insult the other guest?

Personally, I am so happy we have other Britt’s here to balance it out.
 
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Rich

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dan-cat said:
You do realise that the UK has been supportive and involved with this 'fiasco' from beginning to present-day don't you?

Not so, Danny! The UK population was against this war from the start, the US was not.
We just have a twat for a leader at present. I'm sure I've told you many times before but Bliar being an idiot got so far into a corner with Bush that he had no escape plan. He thought he was going to be seen as some great elder statesman, and still does.:rolleyes:
 

dan-cat

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Bodisathva said:
Remember, Dan, we despise in others that which reminds us most of the things we hate about ourselves...

Yep, wonder how many new terrorist recruits get shown this video. :rolleyes:
 

dan-cat

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Rich said:
We just have a twat for a leader at present.

Oh that's alright then. We'd hate for the British public to take any responsibility for it's leaders' diplomacies. :rolleyes:
 

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