FYI re the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment

[Isaac]

Where are non-citizens being registered to vote? There are few jurisdictions that legal residents can vote in local elections, but few do.

There have been numerous cities that have passed ordinances recently specifically allowing non-citizens to vote in local elections.

Conservatives "conspiracy theory" came true again. As I always say, about 90% of them come true, so pay attention

 

[Pat Hartman]

Where are non-citizens being registered to vote?

Pretty much everywhere. Many states automatically register you to vote when you renew your driver's license. Too bad they don't specify your citizenship status on your DL to avoid "accidents". Oops. I guess the point is to make the "accidents". That's the way the Democrats roll. Make votes easy to steal. Technically, the registration is for voting in municipal elections but once you are on the voter list, you just show up to vote for President if you want to risk the penalty.

Also, in states where no voter ID is required like NY, community activists are registering illegals to vote AND telling them to vote for Democrats.

 

[moke123]

Also, in states where no voter ID is required like NY, community activists are registering illegals to vote AND telling them to vote for Democrats.

Source?

Noncitizen voting, already illegal in federal elections, becomes a centerpiece of 2024 GOP messaging

In recent months, the specter of people who aren't American citizens and are voting in the United States has become a rallying cry for Republicans.

apnews.com

Noncitizen voting isn't an issue in federal elections, regardless of conspiracy theories. Here's why

Former President Donald Trump is turning to one of his favorite themes, the specter of immigrants improperly voting in federal elections.

apnews.com

 

[Mike Krailo]

Please provide some documentation of huge handouts. Please provide the detail about the government credit card.

In NYC, they are putting people up in hotels at government expense until they receiving working papers. That expense is created entirely by the Federal government.

Local government in the corrupt states affected, yes. Who paid for the trip over to the affected state? Who paid for the plane flights in the middle of the night from Tx to wherever? At what point is the flow of illegal's going to stop? This epidemic is expanding rapidly.

Where are non-citizens being registered to vote? There are few jurisdictions that legal residents can vote in local elections, but few do.

If a state wishes to cheat in an election, there are a myriad of ways for them to do so. By state, I mean those in control of the ballots and apparatus that counts the votes. Ballots do not have your name on them, they are generic and just indicate a vote one way or the other. So if there are any illegal ballots introduced into the system at any point before or during the counting process, then you can have cheating regardless of registrations of persons. So it's not voters that win elections, it's ballots.

To make it more legitimate sounding, they only need to add extra people to the registration list of voters via a simple checkbox on a form. That's it. This is why it's important for those voters that are on that list to be verified before election night. The Save Act was designed to at least take away the ability of illegals from just checking a box on a form to get a ballot.

 

[Steve R.]

@RogerCooper: The issue of whether or not illegal immigrants are being permitted to vote is actually a distraction from a more fundamental question. That is: Why are Democrats so adamant about suppressing proof of citizenship and also rejecting voter identification? Clearly they are doing it to "open a door" for voter fraud by making it difficult to verify if the voter is legitimate. Democrats, if they really believed in voter integrity as part of their "saving democracy" mantra would support voter identification.

 

[Pat Hartman]

Whether an illegal alien actually votes is not relevant. One major point of the bulk registrations is to increase the number of registered voters. That allows the Democrats to create more bogus mail in ballots because they are going need them to beat Trump this time. So, inflate the rolls with illegals by enticing them into committing crimes in addition to their immigration law crimes. Once you commit entry crimes, other crimes are no big deal even for those immigrants smart enough to know that non-citizens are not allowed to vote.

I do think the Biden administration went overboard. They only won by 40,000 votes in 2020. Did they really need to import 20 million new voters? Wouldn't 5 have done the job?

 

[RogerCooper]

You are claiming massive fraud and yet no Attorney General including many Republicans was able to find any evidence of this. Can you cite an actual specific case of this happening. It would be easy to prove such an offense.

 

[Isaac]

It would be easy to prove such an offense.

That's funny, I think the exact opposite . It would be nearly impossible to "prove" the existence of "missing" ballots. In fact, impossible in most cases. That's why asking for evidence is such an obvious cop-out to really listening to the circumstantial evidence

 

[RogerCooper]

Pat Hartmann was claiming the actual ballots were created referencing illegal aliens. That would be easy to prove.

Throwing absentee ballots is harder to prove, but it can be done. There was Republican operative who did that in a primary. https://apnews.com/house-elections-general-news-united-states-house-of-representatives-35c38cf1cfca48e786eb763c8d19c611

Please cite the circumstantial evidence.

 

[Isaac]

there were all kinds of weird things that happened with the numbers on election night, there were people in philadelphia on video taping up cardboard over the windows so the monitors couldn't see them, there were mail trucks "lost", I mean I don't feel like doing this for you, but you can very easily google the things that made the election look suspect - and none of them are easy to prove

 

[RogerCooper]

Here evidence actually looks like.

Last year, in a park district election near me, the challenger won narrowly with in-person votes while losing absentee ballots by 5-1 margin. Elections for special districts are not conducted by the board of elections and do not follow the anti-fraud protocols of regular elections. Park districts control a significant number of patronage jobs.

The "weird things" you talking about don't hold up under any type of scrutiny, which is why courts kept on rejecting challenges to the 2020 election.

Note that Democrats did better in 2018 then they did in 2020. Do you have any concern about voter fraud by Republicans in 2020?

 

[Pat Hartman]

Pat Hartmann was claiming the actual ballots were created referencing illegal aliens. That would be easy to prove.

No. What I said was, registering illegal aliens to vote increases the number of registered voters. When every voter gets automatically mailed to them a mail in ballot, they are like currency and are always for sale. I think the price in Ilan Omar's district is $250 each. That means that the Democrats get to harvest blank ballots and fill them in themselves. Then you can watch evidence like 2000 mules to see how the ballots are fed, in batches, into the voting places.

Selling your mail in ballot doesn't stop you from voting in person. So the citizen or illegal alien who sold his mail in ballot still gets to go to vote in person. I don't know how these jurisdictions even check. At least in Connecticut, you have to request a mail-in ballot. And if you do that, your name is crossed off the registered voter list so if you go in to vote in person, they will give you a provisional ballot which will only be counted in the case of a tie. So, at least there is some way to prevent you from voting twice. I don't believe that is possible in states where everyone gets a mail in ballot or two or three. This is the most reliable and hard to prove method of cheating.

If you are interested at all,watch the 2000 mules movie to see video from the mail in boxes where a person goes to a box in the middle of the night and stuffs in multiple ballots. You can't tell how many because the box accepts more than one at a time. But probably at least a dozen. The man then turns, removes his surgical gloves and tosses them in the trash. Just think about that for a minute. Be honest. Can you come up with any non-criminal version of what you saw? Then we see the same man doing the same thing at a different mail in box. Hmmm. Where is he getting the ballots from and why is he doing this in the middle of the night and why is he wearing gloves? Then we see the cell phone tracking - you can buy this data from the cell phone companies but only the FBI would be able to get the actual owner information. So,the producers plot the traffic around the mail in boxes in the middle of the night to reduce the traffic and they see interesting patterns. One phone goes to a location then goes to a box location. Then back to the first location again. Then to a different box. What do you make of that? If the DOJ (Biden's DOJ, you know the "winner" in 2020) cared about an honest election, they would have taken the data gathered by this group and tied the phones to people and used their driver's licenses to get their photos to match to the video. Did they do this? No. They didn't want to find the evidence.

So, stop asking for evidence and open your eyes to what is available. And be honest about why the DOJ, controlled by Biden just isn't interested in pursuing this.

 

[RogerCooper]

Pat, you are claiming a large number of illegal alien registrations. Voter registries are a matter of public record. It would be easy to check if the registries contain illegal aliens. Republicans have checked the registries out and found plenty of voters who moved (or died) but not illegal aliens.

The publisher of "2,000 Mules" pulled the film after settling a defamation claim. https://apnews.com/article/2000-mules-film-apology-f1c2de96f17e72241761b4e6deaee5cb. The creator of the film, Dinesh D'Souza plead guilty to a felony in 2014. Pings from a cell-phone show people driving by, they provide no evidence of a "mules".

 

[Pat Hartman]

It would be easy to check if the registries contain illegal aliens.

And how would you do that, exactly? Where do you you get the information regarding their immigration status? Why are only Republicans concerned?

Anyone can get a driver's license. No notation is made that you are in the country illegally. Then you use the driver's license and a utility bill to verify your address when you register to vote except in the states that require proof of citizenship, in which case you need a birth certificate or Passport to prove your citizenship.

My daughter has been doing volunteer work for the local RNC and verifying voter rolls. What she has is name address, maybe a phone number and DOB. Nothing else. She started by sorting the list by age. Then she attempted to contact all the names of people over 100. Of the 30 names, all but 1 were confirmed dead, either by relatives or because she found an obituary. Then she moved to the 80-100 list which was larger. About 50% of those people were dead. Now she is left with random contacts to verify addresses of the THOUSANDS of other registered voters. I suppose if they answer the phone in a foreign language, she can ask them if they are illegal. Do you suppose they would answer honestly?

If the government were interested in keeping the lists clean, they would automatically wash the lists several times a year by comparing them to other government lists of taxpayers, SS payments, obituaries. People will always slip through the cracks but not in large enough numbers to matter. Some states actually do this. Connecticut's rolls are probably cleaner than most. I voted about 10 months after my husband died and his name was already gone. It made me sad but I was also reassured. It had never occured to me to report his death to the town so they must have gotten the information by list matching. Or maybe the Funeral Parlors in town automatically report to the registrar of voters.

If the government were really interested in keeping the lists clean, the DMV would collect actual immigration status and the 2020 census would have included the same citizenship question. I think older census' might have included one. It wouldn't be necessary to make non-citizens confess to illegal activity as the Democrats always insist. Simply citizen/non-citizen would suffice.

Once we can distinguish citizen from non-citizen we can have better control over voter lists and welfare recipients.

The publisher of "2,000 Mules" pulled the film after settling a defamation claim. https://apnews.com/article/2000-mules-film-apology-f1c2de96f17e72241761b4e6deaee5cb. The creator of the film, Dinesh D'Souza plead guilty to a felony in 2014. Pings from a cell-phone show people driving by, they provide no evidence of a "mules".

Please note that the DOJ made no attempt to take the information collected by the people behind the film. Apparently, one of the images they showed was an innocent man who was depositing multiple ballots. He says they were legimite so we will believe him. But that does not excuse the DOJ from not linking the geolocation tracking to actual people and comparing their photos to the people depositing multiple ballots in the middle of the night. This is a job that the DOJ has the resources to do but chose not to. They were too busy chasing down the tourists who wandered into the Capitol on Jan 6 - and they're still doing it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the DOJ had bothered to investigate the evidence the film provided, they would be broadcasting the results night and day if the evidence was fraudulent and the ballot boxes weren't being stuffed with manufactured ballots

 

[RogerCooper]

And how would you do that, exactly? Where do you you get the information regarding their immigration status? Why are only Republicans concerned?

Anyone can get a driver's license. No notation is made that you are in the country illegally. Then you use the driver's license and a utility bill to verify your address when you register to vote except in the states that require proof of citizenship, in which case you need a birth certificate or Passport to prove your citizenship.

My daughter has been doing volunteer work for the local RNC and verifying voter rolls. What she has is name address, maybe a phone number and DOB. Nothing else. She started by sorting the list by age. Then she attempted to contact all the names of people over 100. Of the 30 names, all but 1 were confirmed dead, either by relatives or because she found an obituary. Then she moved to the 80-100 list which was larger. About 50% of those people were dead. Now she is left with random contacts to verify addresses of the THOUSANDS of other registered voters. I suppose if they answer the phone in a foreign language, she can ask them if they are illegal. Do you suppose they would answer honestly?

If the government were interested in keeping the lists clean, they would automatically wash the lists several times a year by comparing them to other government lists of taxpayers, SS payments, obituaries. People will always slip through the cracks but not in large enough numbers to matter. Some states actually do this. Connecticut's rolls are probably cleaner than most. I voted about 10 months after my husband died and his name was already gone. It made me sad but I was also reassured. It had never occured to me to report his death to the town so they must have gotten the information by list matching. Or maybe the Funeral Parlors in town automatically report to the registrar of voters.

If the government were really interested in keeping the lists clean, the DMV would collect actual immigration status and the 2020 census would have included the same citizenship question. I think older census' might have included one. It wouldn't be necessary to make non-citizens confess to illegal activity as the Democrats always insist. Simply citizen/non-citizen would suffice.

Once we can distinguish citizen from non-citizen we can have better control over voter lists and welfare recipients.


Please note that the DOJ made no attempt to take the information collected by the people behind the film. Apparently, one of the images they showed was an innocent man who was depositing multiple ballots. He says they were legimite so we will believe him. But that does not excuse the DOJ from not linking the geolocation tracking to actual people and comparing their photos to the people depositing multiple ballots in the middle of the night. This is a job that the DOJ has the resources to do but chose not to. They were too busy chasing down the tourists who wandered into the Capitol on Jan 6 - and they're still doing it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the DOJ had bothered to investigate the evidence the film provided, they would be broadcasting the results night and day if the evidence was fraudulent and the ballot boxes weren't being stuffed with manufactured ballots

Isn't your daughter cross-checking against commercial mailing lists? Especially lists of people who moved. But what is the point? How many people would request a ballot in the name of a dead person in the hope of voting twice? It is big risk for extremely small gain.

Matching geolocation data to actual people requires a warrant. Does film describe any kind of particularized suspicion? If there were 2,000 people involved, you would expect somebody to come forward with some actual evidence.

Are you describing the Jan. 6 rioters as a tourists?

 

[Pat Hartman]

The "weird things" you talking about don't hold up under any type of scrutiny, which is why courts kept on rejecting challenges to the 2020 election.

They were not rejecting the lawsuits based on evidence. The flatly refused to look at the evidence because they couldn't take the risk of having to proceed with a trial. The lawsuits were mostly dismissed due to "lack of standing". Which essentially means that if the claimant can't prove direct harm then he can't sue. How can I prove that the Democrats cheating to elect Biden has harmed me even now. I know what he's done to cause inflation. I know what is idiotic foreign policy is doing to drag us into a hot war with Russia. Maybe when the nukes start falling out of the sky I could prove the cheating harmed me.

Isn't your daughter cross-checking against commercial mailing lists?

Who is going to pay for them? They are not free.

How many people would request a ballot in the name of a dead person in the hope of voting twice? It is big risk for extremely small gain.

In Connecticut, we have to request a mail in ballot so although fraud is more difficult, it still isn't impossible. It is the states where ballots are distributed like beads at a Marti Gras parade where major fraud is encouraged. There is no other word for it. Democrats want to be able to cheat. Otherwise why fight to the death against any measures suggested to tighten up election controls?

Matching geolocation data to actual people requires a warrant.

Really? Tell that to the FBI as they track down people who were in the vicinity of DC on Jan 6th

If there were 2,000 people involved, you would expect somebody to come forward with some actual evidence.

Do you think any of them would come forward and confess? Yes, it was me. I was a mule carrying ballots being filled in at a safe house to a ballot box by the dozens.

Please give me a non-criminal opinion of why the same person could be on video more than once at different locations depositing multiple ballots in different ballot boxes in the middle of the night while wearing gloves to avoid getting fingerprints on the ballot envelopes. Just ONE non-criminal explanation. That's all.

What is the purpose of flooding a state with mail in ballots if it is not to encourage fraud? Mailing them to the residents of non-citizens. Mailing them to empty addresses. All that happens is there becomes a black market in ballots. The cheaters get a voter registration list - public information and then fill in the ballots. Most of states decided in 2020 to ignore signature verification? Why?

 

[RogerCooper]

They were not rejecting the lawsuits based on evidence. The flatly refused to look at the evidence because they couldn't take the risk of having to proceed with a trial. The lawsuits were mostly dismissed due to "lack of standing". Which essentially means that if the claimant can't prove direct harm then he can't sue. How can I prove that the Democrats cheating to elect Biden has harmed me even now. I know what he's done to cause inflation. I know what is idiotic foreign policy is doing to drag us into a hot war with Russia. Maybe when the nukes start falling out of the sky I could prove the cheating harmed me.

Who is going to pay for them? They are not free.

In Connecticut, we have to request a mail in ballot so although fraud is more difficult, it still isn't impossible. It is the states where ballots are distributed like beads at a Marti Gras parade where major fraud is encouraged. There is no other word for it. Democrats want to be able to cheat. Otherwise why fight to the death against any measures suggested to tighten up election controls?

Really? Tell that to the FBI as they track down people who were in the vicinity of DC on Jan 6th


Do you think any of them would come forward and confess? Yes, it was me. I was a mule carrying ballots being filled in at a safe house to a ballot box by the dozens.

Please give me a non-criminal opinion of why the same person could be on video more than once at different locations depositing multiple ballots in different ballot boxes in the middle of the night while wearing gloves to avoid getting fingerprints on the ballot envelopes. Just ONE non-criminal explanation. That's all.

What is the purpose of flooding a state with mail in ballots if it is not to encourage fraud? Mailing them to the residents of non-citizens. Mailing them to empty addresses. All that happens is there becomes a black market in ballots. The cheaters get a voter registration list - public information and then fill in the ballots. Most of states decided in 2020 to ignore signature verification? Why?

The results in 2018 were more favorable to the Democrats than 2020, despite much less use of absentee ballots. Did the looser rules help Republicans?

 

[Mike Krailo]

No one is complaining about 2018

 

[RogerCooper]

No one is complaining about 2018

Pat is saying that there was massive vote fraud in 2020 but the results were less favorable to the Democrats than 2018. Her evidence for massive fraud is poor quality images from a film made by a convicted felon. There are no direct witnesses to any of any of the supposed acts of vote fraud and for which some reason she connects to illegal aliens. Every court has rejected these claims. How could should massive multi-state operation took place without direct evidence?

But your are right to ask why is no one complaining about 2018. And you know the answer is that Trump lost office in 2020 and Trump always denies losing/going broke etc. Aren't the complaints about the outcome and not the process.

 

[Pat Hartman]

Did the looser rules help

It wasn't until 2019 when the Democrats realized that Trump was probably going to win again that they started making their end runs around state laws and changing election rules illegally.

Stealing Federal Senate and House elections probably happens but it is harder to do because it requires far more people in far more locations. One here and there would be hard to prove. State and local seats are easier to steal. Presidential elections are easy to steal also as it turns out. The ballot blizzard in many states contributed to winning the popular vote but to win the electoral college vote required cheating in only 6 states and the swing was less than 40,000 votes total. So, who knows how many bogus ballots the Dems had to get into the counting center to make Biden the winner but Trump got a bigger percentage of votes than any other second term President in modern times. He picked up numbers of black and hispanic votes also. But somehow Biden won despite Trump's overall gains. There were also lots of other statistical anomalies that would lead people to question the results but they didn't want to. The Republicans probably hate Trump more than the Democrats do so none of them were inclined to back his claims about widespread cheating. They were just happy he was gone. Perhaps if you asked them privately today what they think, they might regret not standing up and demanding clean recounts. By the time most of them happened, all the voting machines had been purged and sufficient ballots were produced to account for the ones that the voting machines created.

lots of funny things like large bunches of ballots that were never folded. How did they get to the counting center if not in an envelope. Large bunches of ballots with only a vote for President -- Biden and all together in bunches. Funny, the same thing didn't happen for Trump. I guess large numbers of Dems only cared about Biden and although they took the time to get a ballot. Fill it out and mail it but not bother to vote in any of the down ballot contests. Hmmm.