Getting Rid of the Electoral College Blight (1 Viewer)

That gives power to the state, one of the reasons we have the EC, but it would take away the voice from the People.

You harp on taking the voice away from the people like you think the USA is a democracy. It is not and never really was... at least not since the constitution was composed. It is a republic, where instead of having individual person granularity in the voting, it is district granularity. We don't DARE surrender to that style of democracy. If we do, the country is gone.
 
you don't get held pre-trial in a prison. They are held in jails.
Thats what I just said. and I"m saying the local Jail can be a lot worse than prison. the mixture of people is too much.
 
Texas Blue is coming for you,
Your comment is threatening as well as being arrogant. And very un-Texas-like. You have never heard any of the people here whom you so clearly despise say anything even remotely threatening to you. WE do not wish to control you or "come for you". It is people like you who would turn this country to a second civil war.

Lucky for the world that sanity prevailed and your attack on our Republic didn't succeed. And let us not forget that this time, Trump won the popular vote decisively as well so you can't use that to attack him for the next four years. The Democrats severely overplayed their hand and lost soundly because of it. Trump was always easy to beat. You just never understood how to do it.

One of the most interesting reversals of the coverage last night was when Detroit turned Red. That does not bode well for your plan to take over the country.
 
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The Democrats severely overplayed their hand and lost soundly because of it.

Not that I claim any great political acumen, but one analyst this morning pointed out that illegal immigration was a hot-button issue in 2020 and the first thing the Dems did was put Kamala in charge. The second thing was to set immigration policies to do nothing to close the borders. The third thing was they put an immigration reform bill into play in Congress and promptly forgot about it for FOUR YEARS. It was a REAL hot-button issue ready-made for Mr. Trump. Ms. Harris didn't do well in several recent interviews and made it clear she is still closely aligned to Joe Biden's policies. But Papa Joe was SUCH a disaster that she suffered from "guilt by association."

Pat, your point about Trump also winning the popular vote should shut up at least SOME criticisms. The fact that he carried several of the so-called "swing states" - most notably Pennsylvania but also Wisconsin - is significant. Of the remaining states (still counting), Maine is the only one that seems to be going to Ms. Harris, while all of the seven others are leaning towards Mr. Trump.

I know our non-USA members and friends will not understand a lot of what happened. The important take-aways are (a) Trump won based on the USA's method called the Electoral College, which tries to level out the added voting power of population centers and (b) he ALSO won based on the popular vote, and (c) if you look at the maps, Mr. Trump won throughout the center of the country, losing worst on the East and West Coasts where some of the larger cities are located. He therefore had a more widespread geographic appeal.

A second but perhaps less obvious result of yesterday's elections is that the Republicans now control the U.S. Senate AND have a chance to regain control of the House of Representatives. I suspect quite a few governmental policy changes in the coming months. The UK Parliament works a bit differently than our system, but for our friends over the pond, essentially it means that we don't need to form a coalition to get things done in Congress.
 
Trump has far wider appeal than The Dems give him credit for. He speaks the language of the middle class. The Dems have long taken for granted their captive audience in the modern day plantation (poor inner cities) and have abandoned the middle class for the elites of the woke colleges. As a result they have imported a new underclass of slave labor and are doing everything they can to register them to vote. What happened in Detroit is the backlash from the former captives who see the welfare benefits they were promised being given to the illegal immigrants
 
You harp on taking the voice away from the people like you think the USA is a democracy. It is not and never really was... at least not since the constitution was composed. It is a republic, where instead of having individual person granularity in the voting, it is district granularity. We don't DARE surrender to that style of democracy. If we do, the country is gone.
I'm not harping.
The only reason you want to keep the EC is because of contempt for Liberals. You see the EC as a divider, and you see that as good. If that makes the Liberal weaker, then no matter the cost, we should do it.

Ultimately, when to AIs and the Robots have sufficiently destroyed the notion of getting ahead through hard work, and by proxy, that the richest people worked harder deserving to run the global society, maybe then you will see the error in your thinking, I doubt it though.
 
I'm not harping.
The only reason you want to keep the EC is because of contempt for Liberals. You see the EC as a divider, and you see that as good. If that makes the Liberal weaker, then no matter the cost, we should do it.

Ultimately, when to AIs and the Robots have sufficiently destroyed the notion of getting ahead through hard work, and by proxy, that the richest people worked harder deserving to run the global society, maybe then you will see the error in your thinking, I doubt it though.
Why not address Doc's comment about

"you think the USA is a democracy. It is not and never really was... at least not since the constitution was composed. It is a republic," ?
 
The only reason you want to keep the EC is because of contempt for Liberals.
A wrong assessment. You neglect the "tyranny of the majority". Democrats want the ability, when they are in the majority, to ignore the rule-of-law and ignore due process to persecute any and all persons that do not adhere to their agenda for any reason. You might want to consider how mob rule, "the tyranny of he majority", worked out during the French Revolution.

You see the EC as a divider
How so? It is simply a different weighted system for vote counting. Actually, one can make the assertion that the EC is an early form of DEI. Giving a helping hand to those who are disadvantaged to achieve equity. The very thing Democrats contend they want!😃

Ultimately, when to AIs and the Robots have sufficiently destroyed the notion of getting ahead through hard work ..
Democrats do not believe that people should get ahead through hard work. Democratic policies undermine getting ahead through hard work. Democrats believe that it is the obligation of the state to assist the disadvantage achieve equity without having to work!
 
The only reason you want to keep the EC is because of contempt for Liberals. You see the EC as a divider, and you see that as good. If that makes the Liberal weaker, then no matter the cost, we should do it.
You are projecting. You are attributing emotions to others that mirror what you actually feel for them. You have no understanding of the purpose of the EC or how it enabled the United States of America to actually emerge as a union of thirteen separate colonies. I tried to explain the history behind it but you were not interested.

"projecting" seems to be the hallmark of a liberal these days. You channel Trump's thoughts and now you claim to be channeling those of your friends on this forum. Perhaps you should go back and study history rather than telling us what WE are thinking.

We are not a Democracy for the reasons Steve mentioned and it's a very good thing for you that we aren't because this time Trump won the popular vote. Or, did you miss that detail? He has broad support across the country and your attempts to obstruct will be harder to implement this time around.

Accept Trump's offer of peace. Take the loss with good grace and give him a chance.
 
Why not address Doc's comment about

"you think the USA is a democracy. It is not and never really was... at least not since the constitution was composed. It is a republic," ?
It would still be representative government even with direct voting for the Presiendent. We already count those votes. It wasn't just about equalizing out the votes. It was also because they could not get accurate counts to Washington fast enough. In fact, it was more about that. The most important part is the way they established our repesentatives. But people are so distrustful of Congressm they convenietly leave that part out.

Which is a typical propaganda technique.
 
You are projecting. You are attributing emotions to others that mirror what you actually feel for them. You have no understanding of the purpose of the EC or how it enabled the United States of America to actually emerge as a union of thirteen separate colonies. I tried to explain the history behind it but you were not interested.

"projecting" seems to be the hallmark of a liberal these days. You channel Trump's thoughts and now you claim to be channeling those of your friends on this forum. Perhaps you should go back and study history rather than telling us what WE are thinking.

We are not a Democracy for the reasons Steve mentioned and it's a very good thing for you that we aren't because this time Trump won the popular vote. Or, did you miss that detail? He has broad support across the country and your attempts to obstruct will be harder to implement this time around.

Accept Trump's offer of peace. Take the loss with good grace and give him a chance.
I'm not a liberal Pat. I'm not even a Democrat. I am certainly not emotional about this. I expected Harris to lose, or at least a good chance. That doesn't change the fact that the EC is outdated.
Unless, of course, you want a totally divided nation, which many conservative would prefer due to their contempt for liberals,
And still you can't avoid insulting. I know you are not the problem.
 
It was also because they could not get accurate counts to Washington fast enough. In fact, it was more about that.
You're changing your position. Reporting to "headquarters" has nothing whatsoever to do with the EC. It has to do with the incompetent way the Dems want to run elections. My group was watching three different channels. They ALL had different numbers. Fox was very excited to call races for Harris and so twice called races for her with very small percentages of the vote in and had to change them to undecided and then to Trump. Even after most of the polls were closed and the counts were over 80% complete, Fox refused to call races for Trump so the EC tally was way off and every channel was different. Only the reporting from the internet which we were monitoring using a tablet was current and accurate. That says pretty bad stuff about CNN, FOX, and CBS and they spend millions on their presentation boards and training for how to use the fancy software.

The most important part is the way they established our repesentatives. But people are so distrustful of Congressm they convenietly leave that part out.

Which is a typical propaganda technique.
Now you're just babbling. The House and Senate are elected directly by the "people". People are distrustful of members of Congress for good reason. Ask yourself why anyone who manages to get elected more than once ends up a millionaire. We don't pay them that well and it costs a lot of money to have a residence in DC as well as in their home districts. Yet, they all fight to the death to get reelected because they need the power to keep the gravy train rolling. There are groups who mirror Pelosi's trades but they have to do them at least a month out of sync due to the poor reporting of Congressional trades, so the mimics don't make anywhere near as much as the models show that the Pelosi's make. There are rules against insider trading for you and me but Congress gets to do whatever they want. These are the people you want me to trust?

We've had numerous discussions on the problems of money in Congressional races as well as insider trading and term limits. Congress has no incentive to throttle its own ability to make money.

Senators used to be appointed by the State legislatures. That made them beholden to the state they served and offered guidence on how they should vote on policies.
 
The House and Senate are elected directly by the "people".
When you meet at the Convention of States, you need to call for the repeal of the 17th Amendment to restore the selection of Senators back to the state legislatures. This my be unpopular, but the voting age needs to be raised to at lest 25 per Churchill's admonishment that the young are unabashedly liberal and it takes a while before the "see the light" and become conservative and voting accordingly.
 
If you're not liberal when you're young, you have no heart. If you're not liberal when you're older .............

And I do wonder sometimes if voting needs to be somewhat more restricted. Why would you want zero qualifications on an act that has enormous consequences to EVERYONE and the entire nation?? Rich/poor, property/non, those shouldn't factor in, no.....but paying taxes and age might need a second look. If you don't pay your fair share, why should you be allowed to vote, thereby affecting policies that make other people pay?...and on your behalf, to boot! It's built-in corruption.
 
When you meet at the Convention of States, you need to call for the repeal of the 17th Amendment to restore the selection of Senators back to the state legislatures. This my be unpopular, but the voting age needs to be raised to at lest 25 per Churchill's admonishment that the young are unabashedly liberal and it takes a while before the "see the light" and become conservative and voting accordingly.
No. The people should elect the Senators
No way I want the moronic imbeciles in Illinois to select the Senators.
 
You're changing your position. Reporting to "headquarters" has nothing whatsoever to do with the EC.
Maybe, but if the telegraph would have been operational they would have figured out something different. They certainly had to know how long it took a horse to travel to Georgia, and how long it would take to count all those votes.
 
contempt for Liberals.

I was busy with a household sidewalk project this morning and didn't get back right away. By the time I got back, you had some answers from Steve R. and Pat and AngelSpeaks (whom I thank for their excellent answers.) I hold contempt for folks who think I'm too stupid to understand political viewpoints. When it comes to political viewpoints, though, I try to take a viewpoint that includes awareness of history. The history of the country is for people to NOT depend on the government for a handout. Until FDR's "New Deal" survival was your personal responsibility. All of the recent handouts from the Liberals are CLEARLY pandering for votes. If I have ANY contempt for Liberals, it is contempt for those who blindly believe that a culture of dependency does any good for those who are capable of working but who have become dependent rather than self-sufficient.
 
No. The people should elect the Senators
No way I want the moronic imbeciles in Illinois to select the Senators.
You have a valid point in citing the Illinois legislature. As is typical, it can go both ways. Would John Tester have been appointed as a senator by the Montana legislature? Perhaps the biggest debacle that I am trying to figure out is how Georgia could have ended-up with two Democratic senators!!!:(

Anyway, the reason for making this suggestion is that is how the Constitution was originally written and I have some sympathy for that approach. A downside with a state legislature making senator appointments, it may create opportunities for graft and cronyism. As a counter thought, the concept of "republic" has been bastardized incrementally and slowly over the years to make the "republic" more of a "democracy". For example, the residents of Washington D.C. have been given the right to vote. The voting age has been lowered which favors the Democratic party. Churchill made this powerful observation: "If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty, you have no brain.". People now seem to believe that we are a "democracy" (not a republic) hence the calls for the electoral college to be abolished. We need to repeal the incremental policies that have moved the republic towards a full blown democracy. In the extreme (French Revolution) a full blown democracy allows for mob rule ("tyranny of the majority").
 

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