Gun laws do they work

[Dick7Access]

A good way to start off the America's Birthday, July 4th.

Hope everyone here has a good one and those abroad both American and other have a good one as well.

Another good way to get into the spirit. we just watched at our church picnic the farewell speech by Ronald Regan. What we had here in Ameican when he left office and what we have now is like night and day.

 

[Brianwarnock]

Well thank you blade, I am glad somebody appreciated the humor. However I don't think all the Brits are as appreciative of the 4th as we are. I could be wrong but I do believe there is one on this forum who isn't.

Humour? Where?

As for appreciating the 4th , can't see why anybody but Americans should but that does not mean that we object to you celebrating it. You appear to be looking for an argument where there isn't one.

Brian

 

[Dick7Access]

Humour? Where?

As for appreciating the 4th , can't see why anybody but Americans should but that does not mean that we object to you celebrating it. You appear to be looking for an argument where there isn't one.

Brian

Thank you for making my point.

 

[Brianwarnock]

Thank you for making my point.

Sorry but you have lost me.

Brian

 

[Dick7Access]

Sorry but you have lost me.

Brian

Ok Brian,
Post #1384 (the humor) makes off that choice of weapons is diaper, as if it was the same pattern as post #1383 choice of weapon’s (visine), and post#1381 choice of weapons (pooping).
Then Blade comes back post #1385 that a good way to start off the 4th by a good Samaritan buying diapers for a young mother. Blade caught the humor. Blade then goes on to wish everyone a happy 4th.
I then come back post #1386 and humorously add that I believe that there is at least one on this forum that doesn’t like anything about the USA. To tell you the truth I did not have you in mind, as I don’t recall you knocking America much. In fact, I think I do more than others.
You then come back post #1388 that you can’t see why anybody but Americans would appreciate the 4th. That’s your privilege. I personally would be happy to see any people have the freedom that we have in the US (fast diminishing)
Can you honestly say that you do not know of anyone on this forum that hates everything about America? Next, more very, very subtle humor as it was convenient for me to use you as the straw man.
Remember that for the most part Brits and Yanks have different sense of humor. In fact is not unusual for me to use a joke in one part of the US and crack everybody up. Then use the same joke in another part and not only not get a laugh, but slightly reprimanded. Blade being a yank got the humor.

 

[adrianscotter]

Here in the UK we have Draconian gun laws. Do they work? No, in my opinion, they do not work. When our government outlawed guns, they just ensured that only the outlaws have guns. I was a responsible gun owner (Colt 1911A .45, Sig Sauer P229 .40, Glock 9mm and a little Colt .22) for several years, did I shoot anyone? No. Did I threaten anyone with a gun? No. Did I 'play' with the guns in public? No. They were in a locked gun safe, I had the only key and they came out to either go to the range or be cleaned. I loved my hobby and was about to embark on a 'Practical Shooting' course to go into competition when our government banned public ownership of guns (and incidentally never paid me for handing mine in). Our Magna Carta states we have the 'Right To Bear Arms' (just like the US 2nd Amendment in the USA, so US Citizens, just a heads up...), however we can no longer legally own a firearm. It irritates me to the point of frustration that if I want to go target shooting, I have to wait until I go to the US and go to the public ranges that exist there at the moment, or at least until their politicians revoke the 2nd. Enjoy your 'freedom' while you can guys.

 

[adrianscotter]

And as a PS - I spend 6 months of the year in the US every year and I like the US (SWF anyway) - just reading back a few posts...

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

Here in the UK we have Draconian gun laws. Do they work? No, in my opinion, they do not work. When our government outlawed guns, they just ensured that only the outlaws have guns. I was a responsible gun owner (Colt 1911A .45, Sig Sauer P229 .40, Glock 9mm and a little Colt .22) for several years, did I shoot anyone? No. Did I threaten anyone with a gun? No. Did I 'play' with the guns in public? No. They were in a locked gun safe, I had the only key and they came out to either go to the range or be cleaned. I loved my hobby and was about to embark on a 'Practical Shooting' course to go into competition when our government banned public ownership of guns (and incidentally never paid me for handing mine in). Our Magna Carta states we have the 'Right To Bear Arms' (just like the US 2nd Amendment in the USA, so US Citizens, just a heads up...), however we can no longer legally own a firearm. It irritates me to the point of frustration that if I want to go target shooting, I have to wait until I go to the US and go to the public ranges that exist there at the moment, or at least until their politicians revoke the 2nd. Enjoy your 'freedom' while you can guys.

Can't you shoot other types of guns as sport in the UK?

 

[adrianscotter]

Yes, Airsoft and bb / pellet guns plus shotguns (with a licence and providing you have enough land to shoot on) and if you belong to a recognised club, live round. Conditions are tough though, hand guns MUST have a barrel length of at least 14", with a Pest Controllers licence, you can have a hunting rifle but the restrictions are huge. Police interviews (yes, plural), home inspection for gun safe and separate ammo safe and most importantly, a very good reason to own a firearm! It take about 3 months to get the licence providing you meet all of the criteria and costs about £200 (US $300). I cannot be bothered, I just wait until I'm stateside.

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

Yes, Airsoft and bb / pellet guns plus shotguns (with a licence and providing you have enough land to shoot on) and if you belong to a recognised club, live round. Conditions are tough though, hand guns MUST have a barrel length of at least 14", with a Pest Controllers licence, you can have a hunting rifle but the restrictions are huge. Police interviews (yes, plural), home inspection for gun safe and separate ammo safe and most importantly, a very good reason to own a firearm! It take about 3 months to get the licence providing you meet all of the criteria and costs about £200 (US $300). I cannot be bothered, I just wait until I'm stateside.

You almost have me convinced that we should amend our gun laws and open ourselves up to 1000s upon 1000s of gun deaths annually, wouldn't want to cause you any bother!

 

[adrianscotter]

Hello Anthony, what do you base your information on '1000's and 1000's of gun deaths'. Go take a look here, then tell me why you think that would significantly change. w w w dot citizenreportuk dot org / reports / murders-fatal-violence-uk dot html sorry I can't send a proper link, I haven't been registered long enough...

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

Hello Anthony, what do you base your information on '1000's and 1000's of gun deaths'. Go take a look here, then tell me why you think that would significantly change. w w w dot citizenreportuk dot org / reports / murders-fatal-violence-uk dot html sorry I can't send a proper link, I haven't been registered long enough...

To answer your question - guns are dangerous?! and kill 30,000 + in the US each year I believe. The same could happen here, why risk it.

Maybe when a Mumbai/Nairobi type event happens with legally held weapons things will change in the US.

 

[adrianscotter]

No Anthony, guns are not dangerous, people are dangerous. I would quite happily leave a gun on a table pointed at my head from now until the day I die and I can guarantee that I will come to no harm... However, put some idiot on the end of it and that's a whole other story. In 2013 there were some 11,000 odd deaths by shooting in the USA, of those, more than 80% were drug related alone. Where I live in Florida part time there are very few gun deaths outside of the criminal fraternity because every one knows that more than 25% of the SWF population carry a concealed weapon full time. Would you attempt to rob someone if you knew that out of a group of four people at least one of them was armed? Would you break into someone's home if you knew that over 90% of homes have at least one gun readily available? I know what my answer is.

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

No Anthony, guns are not dangerous, people are dangerous. I would quite happily leave a gun on a table pointed at my head from now until the day I die and I can guarantee that I will come to no harm... However, put some idiot on the end of it and that's a whole other story. In 2013 there were some 11,000 odd deaths by shooting in the USA, of those, more than 80% were drug related alone. Where I live in Florida part time there are very few gun deaths outside of the criminal fraternity because every one knows that more than 25% of the SWF population carry a concealed weapon full time. Would you attempt to rob someone if you knew that out of a group of four people at least one of them was armed? Would you break into someone's home if you knew that over 90% of homes have at least one gun readily available? I know what my answer is.

We have drugs here - so we would have the same problem? Do we have less idiots maybe - we definately have less idiots with guns.

You saying most people who shoot others dead turn out to be criminals?:banghead:

Or are you saying most of victims are criminals and not worried about that type of human life. Do you know the figures for innocent gun death victims?

Or are they too to be glossed over - as something not to worry about.
Because that is indeed what you have just done.

You may be right that some crime may be lower because of gun ownership. Murder isn't one of them. I can replace my TV - not my brother. (or someones else criminal brother for that matter)

 

[adrianscotter]

Yes, we have drugs here, yes some people in the drugs trade get killed, some by illegal guns (I'm not aware of any firearms held legally that have been involved in any shooting in the UK), some by knife, some are just beaten to death, I'm really not sure of the ratio between us and the US regarding idiots and you're absolutely right when you say we have less idiots with guns, we most certainly do. What I'm saying is I'd like to have the choice of whether or not I would like to own a gun. As for the type of human life that is wasted by mindless violence, I personally abhor all taking of human life unnecessarily. Sometimes I wonder if humans should all be killed off and let the animals rule the world, they only kill to survive, unlike us. As for the full figures of innocent people killed with guns, I don't know the figures for all of the US but I do know if SWF in 2013 there were (I think) 4 innocent victims of death by shooting. By the same token, there were some 90 plus innocent victims of death by vehicle, knife, drugs and (again I think - I'm not 100% sure) 1 by alligator! All of life Anthony is about 2 things, first the choices we make between right and wrong and secondly, the 'cost / benefit' analysis. It's wrong to murder anyone, criminal or otherwise, my opinion is that it is wholly wrong to assume that everyone that has access to a firearm is an idiot intent on killing anything and everything that moves. Do the costs outweigh the benefits? I really don't know the answer to that. One thing I do know is that it's good to have a discussion with someone that can argue their case well. Thank you Anthony.

 

[Brianwarnock]

Adrian there is no way you will have read all of the posts on here so let me inform you that most people, except the gun nuts, have argued for better control of guns and not for a ban.

If, as is argued, the guns are for personal protection then I can see no need for high capacity magazines and assault weapons.

Brian

 

[adrianscotter]

Hi Brian, I agree wholeheartedly, I also see no reason for high capacity magazines, or for assault weapons or as I saw on my last trip to FL, a Barratt .50 cal at the range! Why on earth does a normal citizen need a .50 cal sniper rifle? Smarter gun control? Hm, our government can't do it, they plumped for a very severe control system, basically no unless you can prove a need.:banghead:
Who can prove a 'need' to own a firearm? All I want is some range time with my buddies, a little competition and the comfort of home defence. Here in the UK, I'll quite happily tell anyone that will listen, I pity the burglar that enters my property without permission, gun or no gun, once he crosses the line between public space and my space, he's mine. He does not have my permission to be on my property so all of the rights accorded to people that stay on the public side of the line are forgone. I believe in FL it's called the 'Stand Your Ground' law if I'm not mistaken. To be honest, I don't need a gun providing I can close the ground between me and assailant quickly enough, but if they are armed... another story perhaps.

 

[Brianwarnock]

Yes the law here was the result of a knee jerk reaction to a terrible event, not the best way to make rational laws.

Brian

 

[Dick7Access]

Here in the UK we have Draconian gun laws. Do they work? No, in my opinion, they do not work. When our government outlawed guns, they just ensured that only the outlaws have guns. I was a responsible gun owner (Colt 1911A .45, Sig Sauer P229 .40, Glock 9mm and a little Colt .22) for several years, did I shoot anyone? No. Did I threaten anyone with a gun? No. Did I 'play' with the guns in public? No. They were in a locked gun safe, I had the only key and they came out to either go to the range or be cleaned. I loved my hobby and was about to embark on a 'Practical Shooting' course to go into competition when our government banned public ownership of guns (and incidentally never paid me for handing mine in). Our Magna Carta states we have the 'Right To Bear Arms' (just like the US 2nd Amendment in the USA, so US Citizens, just a heads up...), however we can no longer legally own a firearm. It irritates me to the point of frustration that if I want to go target shooting, I have to wait until I go to the US and go to the public ranges that exist there at the moment, or at least until their politicians revoke the 2nd. Enjoy your 'freedom' while you can guys.

Well said !!!

 

[adrianscotter]

Thank you Dick.