Gun laws do they work (1 Viewer)

[Bladerunner]

You're not very good at this whole 'keeping your promises' thing, are you?

Or reading comprehension, either, from the looks of it.

When there is only one voice out there, it is very easy to deceive the people as we have see for the last 7-8 years. NO-more. So I lied, SUE ME! Its what you people do best!

 

[Frothingslosh]

When there is only one voice out there, it is very easy to deceive the people as we have see for the last 7-8 years. NO-more. So I lied, SUE ME! Its what you people do best!

And you still are. If you seriously think there is only one voice in America, you are dangerously deluded.

 

[Brianwarnock]

I know that as a visitor I spent very little time in the many states and cities that I visited, but I saw a different America to that painted by Dick and Blade, infact if I had read this thread before going I don't think I would ever have gone.

Brian

 

[Bladerunner]

And you still are. If you seriously think there is only one voice in America, you are dangerously deluded.

And you still are. If you seriously think there is only one voice in America, you are dangerously deluded.

You and your kind would prefer it that way, I am sure but this last election showed that when we get 'feed-up' , we speak.

By the way. Lets lay down the rules so everyone will know what you are talking about.

Capitalism: an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, especially as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth.

Socialism: a way of organizing a society in which major industries are owned and controlled by the government rather than by individual people and companies

Fasciam: a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

Communism: a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party.

 

[Frothingslosh]

To be fair, the US isn't the repressive, near-fascist violent warzone that those two paint. While there's an incredible amount of hyperbole in our politics (as you can see above), most of it is just that. Outside run-down areas in major cities, which most tourists wouldn't visit anyway, you're unlikely to ever even see a gun other than on a LEO.

Since Blade loves to bring up the city, I'll admit I wouldn't recommend visiting Detroit. It has suffered an ongoing economic meltdown since the automakers relocated dozens of auto factories out of the area (only two remain). That resulted in crushing local economic depression, violence, and decay, which in turn has prevented businesses from moving to Detroit. Being in the hands of largely corrupt politicians - look up Kwame Kilpatrick - hasn't helped much, either. Also, there's a sewage treatment plant RIGHT next to the expressway at one point.

But seriously, most of the country is defiintely well worth visiting. I don't plan on doing this again, but both coast-to-coast drives I've done have been amazing experiences. And most cities have something fascinating in them to look into.

 

[Bladerunner]

I know that as a visitor I spent very little time in the many states and cities that I visited, but I saw a different America to that painted by Dick and Blade, infact if I had read this thread before going I don't think I would ever have gone.

Brian

There are a lot of good people in the USA. The Left that wants to permanently changed America to a Socialistic state. While they are only 17% of the population, they speak the loudest. So, when you come to America, you are more than likely speaking to a gun toting conservative who would give you the shirt off his/her back if it would help you. Those are the people you saw everyday while you were here. If you were in NY, you had 35,000 or 40,000 policemen protecting you (in certain areas). In the south, you have the police (sparse as they are) as well as the ordinary citizen (well most of them). If this does not make you feel better, then you need to cuddle up to Putin.

On, another note: It would seem that in most areas of Europe, the people there also rejected Socialism during one of the last elections. http://www.socialistalternative.org...-revolt-against-the-capitalist-establishment/


Good for you!

 

[Bladerunner]

Probably for the best.

It doesn't help that you also have to deal with folks like Blade. Just look at his posts from today - he makes it patently obvious that that be believes that if you don't agree with him, you obviously are an athiest criminal anarchist trying to tear down society just so you can watch the world burn. This even goes to gun control - obviously, if you want to restrict gun ownership even slightly or make sure violent criminals can't get machine guns, you must be a commie mutant traitor out to disarm the American populace in preparation for the imminent takeover by the New World Order. (Of course, I forget if the NWO is Jews, Muslims, or liberals this week.)

The very idea that you can disagree with him while at the same time desiring to make the world (or even just America) a better place is utterly incomprehensible to him and those like him.

kinda of like the "Pot calling the Kettle Black'

 

[Bladerunner]

To be fair, the US isn't the repressive, near-fascist violent warzone that those two paint. While there's an incredible amount of hyperbole in our politics (as you can see above), most of it is just that. Outside run-down areas in major cities, which most tourists wouldn't visit anyway, you're unlikely to ever even see a gun other than on a LEO.

Since Blade loves to bring up the city, I'll admit I wouldn't recommend visiting Detroit. It has suffered an ongoing economic meltdown since the automakers relocated dozens of auto factories out of the area (only two remain). That resulted in crushing local economic depression, violence, and decay, which in turn has prevented businesses from moving to Detroit. Being in the hands of largely corrupt politicians - look up Kwame Kilpatrick - hasn't helped much, either. Also, there's a sewage treatment plant RIGHT next to the expressway at one point.

But seriously, most of the country is defiintely well worth visiting. I don't plan on doing this again, but both coast-to-coast drives I've done have been amazing experiences. And most cities have something fascinating in them to look into.

The above also happens when you promise handouts to others that you cannot cover. Again, the 'Feel-good' people did this to Detroit. Of course the auto industry moved out because of taxes.

 

[Brianwarnock]

I don't want to side track the thread but just want to say that my wife and I enjoyed about a dozen visits to the states, she liked the people as she loved to talk and the Americans responded, in cafes, restaurants, buses , well anywhere.

All countries have their difficult cities and all cities their dodgy areas.

Interestingly looking back the more totalitarian the regime the less at risk we felt out and about.

Brian

 

[Brianwarnock]

...If this does not make you feel better, then you need to cuddle up to Putin.

!

this is interesting.
back in the 60s a work colleague had 2 holidays that were unusual back then, one to America and one to Russia, he said that he felt safest in Russia becaue you knew that so long as you obeyed the rules you were ok, whereas in America anybody might suddenly attack you.
I think that he exaggerated and for the record he said that if he had to choose where to live it would be the States.

I mention this because it , to me, illustrates the ethereal notion of freedom.

Brian

Brian

 

[Brianwarnock]

On, another note: It would seem that in most areas of Europe, the people there also rejected Socialism during one of the last elections. http://www.socialistalternative.org...-revolt-against-the-capitalist-establishment/


Good for you!

Wouldn't a discussion on this belong in the political forum?

Brian

 

[Frothingslosh]

You and your kind would prefer it that way, I am sure but this last election showed that when we get 'feed-up' , we speak.

Really? I assume by 'speak', you mean:

• Blatanty suppress liberal voters
• Remove all holidays from schools rather than honor Muslim holidays alongside Jewish and Christian ones
• Push laws eshrining the right to discriminate
• Gerrymander to your hearts' content
• Plan to stack the electoral college
• Straight-up lie about Benghazi
• Attempt every year to push creationism in place of science
• Lie about the economy, saying it's getting worse when it's actually slowly growing stronger
• Threaten to shut down the government if Obama doesn't stop treating immigrants like human beings
• Attempt to once again discredit the concept of climate change
• Attempt once again revert the US to the 'As Much Health Care As You Can Buy' system
• I could go on and on, with things like Fox News lying and twisting its data until it bears only a passing resemblance to the truth, blatant and excessive strawmanning of the left, etc.

Socialism: a way of organizing a society in which major industries are owned and controlled by the government rather than by individual people and companies

The problem here is that while the above is the strictest textbook definition of socialism, YOU have a distinct habit of applying the word to everything you dislike. Specifically, you've used it in regards to health care, gun control, Welfare, Medicare, anti-trust laws and other limitations on free-market capitalism, the Social Contract (!!!), and the list goes on.

You also have it conflated with socialism as applied to social sciences, with Trotskyism, with Marxism, and in general, with everything you don't like. You routinely refer to socio-economic programs as socialist, even when they do not meet the definition you provided above, because to you, socialism is the unknown demon that in some way is out to destroy everything you hold dear.

And somehow you've managed to set me up as the architect-in-chief of everything you fear. I still find that vastly amusing.

 

[Frothingslosh]

Wow, I think I may have finally sent Blade off the deep end. While I was typing up my last reply, he went completely incoherent!

 

[Frothingslosh]

The above also happens when you promise handouts to others that you cannot cover. Again, the 'Feel-good' people did this to Detroit. Of course the auto industry moved out because of taxes.

Actually, the auto industry moved mostly out of the country due to labor costs. Detroit was FAR from the only city hurt; it was just the WORST hurt, because Detroit's economy was nearly 100% based around auto manufacturing. (The industry actually growing up in the Detroit area probably had more to do with that than tax breaks.)

And it's strange how I remember EVERY city giving tax incentives for auto plant creation, not just Detroit.

And for pretty much every other business and event to set up shop, too, not just the auto industry.

The above also happens when you promise handouts to others that you cannot cover.

Yeah, conservatives would never launch wars they couldn't pay for to invade Iraq for something it didn't do, now would they?

The Left that wants to permanently changed America to a Socialistic state.

Sure, some on the left do. And some on the right want to implement a new Nazi state and either eject or murder all non-caucasians. It's idiotic to argue that all people on either side believe the same as their most radical extremists.

Also, the very idea that the Left is one single entity is ludicrous beyond words.

While they are only 17% of the population, they speak the loudest.

Even the most cursory review of American reporting and journalism will show this ridiculous claim to be false.

So, when you come to America, you are more than likely speaking to a gun toting conservative who would give you the shirt off his/her back if it would help you.

Not 99% of the conservatives I've ever met. These days, it's considered far more trendy to blame you for not having a shirt, lecture you about the need to make your own shirt, punish you for going barechested in the freezing weather, and then enact laws requiring you to own a shirt before you can purchase one.

kinda of like the "Pot calling the Kettle Black'

What...I don't even...wow.

I have never ONCE made any of the claims you have. In fact, unlike you, I try to restrict my claims and statements to those which are actually provably true. In addition, when I am proven wrong, I acknowledge it, rather than doubling down and screaming even more loudly.

 

[Bladerunner]

this is interesting.
back in the 60s a work colleague had 2 holidays that were unusual back then, one to America and one to Russia, he said that he felt safest in Russia becaue you knew that so long as you obeyed the rules you were ok, whereas in America anybody might suddenly attack you.
I think that he exaggerated and for the record he said that if he had to choose where to live it would be the States.

I mention this because it , to me, illustrates the ethereal notion of freedom.

Brian

Back then Brian there was no Freedom in Russia. Since the 80' s (the wall came down) Russia then drifted more toward Capitialism. However, since Putin has been returned to power, the that drift has gone more toward the Old Russia. Rem, He is an old KGB agent and the KGB were very bad people.

Yes, you would have been safer but you paid for it. You were told were to live, you could not speak as you do now, You were told what your work would be, How many children you could have, whether they could go to schools and even if they could play in the Olympics plus much more.

In the cities, because of the liberal tendencies, gangs have become the norm, the family unit is all but gone. If you came to Tennessee, outside of the city, you could go anywhere without a large risk. Why? We have been speaking of it. Would these simple freedoms be worth possibly being in harms way occasionally?

The people in the US are complicated. I myself am a conservative with moderate liberal tendencies. I do not believe in big government that takes care of everybody's needs including healthcare.I believe in Capitalism. I am against Abortion, Why? because we now know (did not know this in the 60's) that the baby is alive at conception. I believe in marriage under God between a Man and a Woman only. Of course I believe in Jesus and God., I believe there is a right and wrong and I believe there are various ways to handle (correct) the wrongs (according to man's laws) without resorting to the killing of a human being. I also am socially liberal to a point. I am not against moderate consumption of Alcohol. I do dance, like to invest money in the stockmarket and so.......on. According to most liberals, my biggest vise' IS THAT I OWN A GUN'. I thus, am a far right wing punk that wants to start a civil war, wear swastikaS, become a skin head, bike gang member and simply a person that believes that if you don't agree with me, you are little more than a worm.

A case in point: the other day my wife and I were walking around a local Mall. It was a good sized mall and being the season, was crowded with people. Every now and then you would see security people and even less, full-blown policemen. They were grossly outnumbered by those that I deemed/suspected possible criminals. Now, before someone goes off the cliff, I know it is profiling but it was a personal profiling. That means I just watched them more than the others for the tell-tell signs of criminal intent while in my general area. While nothing happened, I was very uncomfortable that day or was glad when I got outside. I don't like crowed places and very seldom go to them except to go with my wife. I guess, I still have some of that cave-man gene in me? LOL

Brian come to Tennessee and Florida, you will be safe and meet some of the best people in the world called Southerners!!!!!!!!

 

[Frothingslosh]

I myself am a conservative with liberal tendencies.

This I have GOT to hear.

Considering your tendency (shown on this very page) to demonize liberals and how you have said repeatedly that liberals are involved in an active campaign to destroy the USA, how can you POSSIBLY say you have liberal tendencies? On every socio-economic topic I've seen you respond to, you have taken the far-right position. Be it gun control, abortion, free market vs planned production vs controlled market, religion, you name it. No matter what the topic was, your position was as hardcore right-wing as it could get.

So where, in all that, do you see yourself as having liberal tendencies?

 

[Bladerunner]

Wouldn't a discussion on this belong in the political forum?

Brian

It could be but it also is a small picture that shows the difference between the liberals and conservatives of which gun laws are in the forefront.\Like the sway of a great pendulum in both geographical areas, it has come at least back to the center. Would like for it to stay there for both our sakes.

 

[Dick7Access]

This I have GOT to hear.

Considering your tendency (shown on this very page) to demonize liberals and how you have said repeatedly that liberals are involved in an active campaign to destroy the USA, how can you POSSIBLY say you have liberal tendencies? On every socio-economic topic I've seen you respond to, you have taken the far-right position. Be it gun control, abortion, free market vs planned production vs controlled market, religion, you name it. No matter what the topic was, your position was as hardcore right-wing as it could get.

So where, in all that, do you see yourself as having liberal tendencies?

Do my post indicate that I am a conservative, WITH liberal tendencies?

 

[Bladerunner]

This I have GOT to hear.

Considering your tendency (shown on this very page) to demonize liberals and how you have said repeatedly that liberals are involved in an active campaign to destroy the USA, how can you POSSIBLY say you have liberal tendencies? On every socio-economic topic I've seen you respond to, you have taken the far-right position. Be it gun control, abortion, free market vs planned production vs controlled market, religion, you name it. No matter what the topic was, your position was as hardcore right-wing as it could get.

So where, in all that, do you see yourself as having liberal tendencies?

Your definition of my being a far-right winger?

The real def here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_politics or

"The far right or extreme right is a political label used to identify parties and movements based on fascist, racist and/or extremely reactionary ideologies. Officially those on the far right embrace the concept of the "inequality of outcome", meaning that one group is naturally better than another."

 

[Frothingslosh]

Do my post indicate that I am a conservative, WITH liberal tendencies?

I honestly haven't seen enough. I've seen your stance on gun control, which seems to tend moderately liberal (require background checks for 3rd party sales in gun shows and flea markets) as opposed to full liberal (we don't need guns any more) or conservative (any gun regulation is the same as taking our guns away). I know you're a conservative Christian, although your posting on the athiest thread ended before I started.

All I can say regarding you is that you're definitely conservative. I don't know that I'd say the one slightly liberal stance I've seen out of an incredibly limited recordset would be enough to say you have liberal tendencies, but you have at least one.


Would you say you have more liberal than conservative leanings on any of the following?

• Abortion
• Marriage Equality
• Gay Rights in general (ie - is it okay to terminate or refuse service to someone because they're gay?)
• Immigration (amnesty vs deportation, increase or decrease immigration quotas, what to do with refugees)
• The Drug War (Legalize marijuana, legalize and tax all of them, crack down even more)
• Trickle-down vs ground-up economics
• Single-payer vs universal health care (in concept and as implemented)
• Death penalty
• US involvement in world politics (isolation vs world involvement)
• Israel vs Palestine
• Socialism vs Unrestricted Free Market vs Restricted Free Market (if the latter, what limitations?)
• Separation of Church and State
• Corporate donations - should corporations be able to donate to political campaigns? If so, should there be a maximum?
• Campaign donations in general - should everyone be free to donate as much as they want, or should everyone be limited to the same amount?
• Role of government in helping those who need it - Government obligation or should be handled privately?
• Islam - Are there so many Muslim terrorists because Islam is evil, or for other reasons such as economic, social, or geopolitical issues? (And it's really odd that I can legitimately list this as a political question.)

My apologies if any of the above are listed with a bias - I tried very hard to make the items as neutral as possible in description.

Anyway, the above list is so long partially to make a point - Liberal vs Conservative is really just a label. I call myself a liberal mainly because I tend to take a liberal stance on the above, but I don't in all cases, and even in the majority where I do, I usually am far from the far-left position. In fact, until just a few years ago, I called myself a moderate. In that time, my stances haven't changed, but somehow they moved from the moderate to the liberal spectrums.

Even as a liberal, however, and despite Bladerunner's incoherent rantings about my inclusion in some grand conspiracy out to tear down America and hand it over to ISIS, I do tend conservative in a number of areas. One of those is gun control - while I do agree we need to close the background check 'loophole', I am utterly opposed to disarming the population. I also tend to support the death penalty in cases where it's warranted and there is quite literally zero chance of the wrong person being executed (as you can't un-execute someone). I'm also a BIG fan of fiscal responsibility and personal rights, which is why I was screaming at people to pay attention during the entire Bush II era and am not 100% happy with the current administration. Economically, I tend to favor free market capitalism with restrictions to prevent monopolies and assorted economic abuses (although don't tell Bladerunner that - he's convinced I'm one of those evil Trotskyists).

Note I didn't mention religion in general on the list - while there is a certain correlation for the religious (at least, for the three Abrahamic religions) to lean to the right, it is by no means a requirement. Up until a very few years ago, I was a liberal Christian, and even today I see myself as a liberal Christian agnostic. As to my inclusion of Islam, that's because what Islam is or is not has become a topic of debate in America since 2001.

So, seeing as you were the first one here to accuse me of treason and intent to destroy the US - in this very thread, even - does the above fit your preconception of me?