Gun laws do they work

[Frothingslosh]

He means post number 1752 - it's my really long one a number of posts back.

I have no CLUE what he's trying to say, however, as his 'case' is an incoherently jumbled mass of personal attacks, raging against the Great Liberal Conspiracy To Destroy America And Give It To Brown People, spreading of GOP propaganda, and disingenuous (and perhaps even puerile) whining about me not agreeing with him.

 

[Bladerunner]

Back on topic it is regarding large magazines and automatic weapons that you and I appear to part company, should go back and find the quote but on iPad and that's not easy.

I feel that the prevention of nut jobs running riot in schools etc and shooting the innocent is worth the effort, I don't buy into the gun lobby idea of armed guards, it might cut the number killed in an incident down but unless they are going to shoot a person carrying a gun on sight I think they will merely be added to the number shot.

I think that might be my last 2 cents worth as you earlier post illustrated just how confused the whole issue of gun control is.

Brian

I think the large magazines and the automatic weapons have purposely been put forth to the general public to get sympathy from the masses. Lets say the largest magazine is 5-10 rounds for everything. It takes 1.5 seconds to change the magazine and reload. Now unless, you are thinking that this gives someone with a permited gun to shoot this fellow, your argument means nothing. 1.5 sec is enough for a student to try and run only to be caught in the open once the gun is reloaded. Now to be fair, to ban magazines is to ban the guns themselves and we both know what happens when you ban something.

The automatic weapons are banned here in the USA. One can have a machine gun but it has to registered and is heavily regulated as to where you can shoot it, etc. There are many skillful people out there that can make a semi-auto into a automatic. OK, lets ban semi-autos and only have bolt action. WWI was won with bolt actions. We have a hero here in TN, Alvin C. York who killed and captured many a german using a bolt action rifle with a five bullet clip. He had to take about 3-5 sec. to reload but so did the Germans.

What you seem to be advocating is that policemen/ military have all the firepower and the citizens have nothing or next to nothing. How about a sword or two. This scenario is subject to some power hungry person taking things over. It has been done before. What about the Rich, they can hire all the body guards with guns to protect them.From whom should they be protected. Nobody has guns now?

The bottom line is there is no way to ensure innocent people will not get killed by killers, murders, goof balls etc. Even back in the day where there were no guns, Genghis Khaun killed with the sword, spear and bow.

I respect your right to think the way you think but I personally think if we did it your way, looking down the road, we would wind up one nation/world under one dictator.

Now let's get back to the real problem shall we: The USA's Constitution and Bill of RIghts.

Do we change it to fit the 'feeling of the day' much like Mr. Froth changes the definition of Socialism so it fits his version of an ideal society. Believe I will keep my gun and if you ever make it to my place in TN, I can promise you you will never see it or know it is around.

 

[Bladerunner]

Is that a link? If so it doesn't.

Brian

No, sorry, it is a post #,,, I don't know what happened, I try to do it twice with the same result. It is Mr. Froth's Quote(s).

 

[Frothingslosh]

Do we change it to fit the 'feeling of the day' much like Mr. Froth changes the definition of Socialism so it fits his version of an ideal society.

Actually, the only one attempting to redefine words this entire conversation has been you. At every point, I have been careful not to do so.

Of course, just as you still maintain 1200 AD was 3200 years ago, I'm sure you'll maintain that I have magically changed the definition of Socialism to enact my Evil Plan To Destroy Freedom, Murder All Americans, And Give The Smoldering Ruins To Satan's Muslim Servants.

 

[wire_jp]

Gun laws make no difference

 

[Bladerunner]

You may have heard on the news about a Southern California man who was put under 72-hour psychiatric observation when it was found he owned 100 guns and allegedly had 100,000 rounds of ammunition stored in his home. The house also featured a secret escape tunnel.

By Southern California standards, someone owning 100,000 rounds is considered "mentally unstable."

·· In Arizona, he'd be called "an avid gun collector."
· In Arkansas, he'd be called "a novice gun collector."
· In Utah, he'd be called "moderately well prepared," but they'd probably reserve judgment until they made sure that he had a corresponding quantity of stored food.
· In Kansas, he'd be "A guy down the road you would want to have for a friend."
· In Montana, he'd be called "The neighborhood 'Go-To' guy."
· In Idaho, he'd be called "a likely gubernatorial candidate."
· In Georgia, he'd be called "an eligible bachelor."
· In Alabama, North Carolina, Virginia, Mississippi, Tennessee, Kentucky and South Carolina he would be called "a deer hunting buddy."
· And, in Texas he'd just be "Bubba, who's a little short on ammo."

 

[Vassago]

Why current gun laws don't work:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/mommy-shot-3-year-old-shoots-kills-mother-n255871

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/toddler-shoots-mom-dead-baby-diaper-cops-article-1.2023300

How does a 3 year old toddler acquire a gun? Why was the gun loaded and in an accessible location to a 3 year old? This is pure negligence and because of it, a young mother is dead, an infant will never know it's mother, and this child will have to live with what he did, knowing what he did, and probably need an insane amount of therapy.

We need to make the penalties for this kind of negligence more severe. Same for shooting in the dark without identifying or warning, as so many kids have been shot for something as simple as going to the bathroom with a gun crazy parent in the house. I understand that there are accidents, but these kind of accidents are easily avoidable with proper education and just pure common sense. Who puts a loaded gun under the couch with kids around???

 

[Bladerunner]

Why current gun laws don't work:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/mommy-shot-3-year-old-shoots-kills-mother-n255871

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/toddler-shoots-mom-dead-baby-diaper-cops-article-1.2023300

How does a 3 year old toddler acquire a gun? Why was the gun loaded and in an accessible location to a 3 year old? This is pure negligence and because of it, a young mother is dead, an infant will never know it's mother, and this child will have to live with what he did, knowing what he did, and probably need an insane amount of therapy.

We need to make the penalties for this kind of negligence more severe. Same for shooting in the dark without identifying or warning, as so many kids have been shot for something as simple as going to the bathroom with a gun crazy parent in the house. I understand that there are accidents, but these kind of accidents are easily avoidable with proper education and just pure common sense. Who puts a loaded gun under the couch with kids around???

"It was recently reported by the NYT's; a major finding is that about half of accidental child firearm deaths are misclassified in the statistics compiled by the Centers for Disease Control. They (the authors) looking at data from four states dating back to 1999, from a fifth state dating back to 2007, and from several smaller jurisdictions that make records available, the authors produced just 259 cases in which a child 14 or younger was accidentally killed with a firearm.

So, let's do some more detailed statistical work. According to the CDC, about 5 in every 100,000 children ages 1 to 14 die from accidental injuries every year. (This is a pretty low number in terms of lifetime risks; accidental deaths skyrocket when you hit the 15-19 age group.) Here are the top ten causes in chart form; I've included both the CDC's number for guns and an adjusted number (double that):
You can see by looking at the X axis that guns do, indeed, move up several places in the rankings when you double the number. But you can see from the Y axis that gun accidents remain a rare cause of unintentional death for children. More than half of such deaths are from cars and water, and shuffling the rankings below fourth place doesn't really change the overall picture. The official CDC stat is that 0.11 in every 100,000 children die from gun accidents every year; doubling that brings it to 0.22 -- just 4.4 percent of the overall rate of 5 per 100,000, in a country in which around 40 percent of households have guns." (see chart)


http://www.realclearpolicy.com/blog/2013/09/29/how_common_are_child_gun_accidents_666.html

Let's outlaw or restrict cars to only those that have a permit to own. This does not include the license enabling driving.Why?

"More than 650 children 12 and under were killed in crashes in 2011," Sauber-Schatz said. "That's more than a dozen children every week."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/02/04/cdc-too-many-kids-die-unbuckled/5204127/




I know you need a cause to cheer for but get one that is a little more noble.

 

[Dick7Access]

Why current gun laws don't work:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/mommy-shot-3-year-old-shoots-kills-mother-n255871

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/toddler-shoots-mom-dead-baby-diaper-cops-article-1.2023300

How does a 3 year old toddler acquire a gun? Why was the gun loaded and in an accessible location to a 3 year old? This is pure negligence and because of it, a young mother is dead, an infant will never know it's mother, and this child will have to live with what he did, knowing what he did, and probably need an insane amount of therapy.

We need to make the penalties for this kind of negligence more severe. Same for shooting in the dark without identifying or warning, as so many kids have been shot for something as simple as going to the bathroom with a gun crazy parent in the house. I understand that there are accidents, but these kind of accidents are easily avoidable with proper education and just pure common sense. Who puts a loaded gun under the couch with kids around???

Jax old buddy,
Are you also going to include dog owners that their dog kills a person?

 

[ConnorGiles]

I think we are coming away from the subject here guys, Its really not a fight for which needs to be banned first.

Yes there are many more things that need to be considered in deaths each year. But we are talking about guns here.

Just because banning something else doesn't mean Gun crime won't happen any more. The real problem is that accidental deaths happen more and more each year, I wouldn't think a ban is necessary but a extremely strict regulation would be in order. This would (maybe) in turn reduce accidental shootings dramatically such as (what Vassago has explained) Warning the intruder or even identifying the person before pulling the trigger.

Just try and stick to topic here guys, We aren't talking about which is the worst.
If it is a contributing factor to deaths that didn't need to happen, then it is just as bad as the rest and must be dealt with in the right manner.

 

[Brianwarnock]

Well done Connor, Dick and Blade frequently play the "knives Kill", "cars Kill" etc " lets ban everything" card, they don't realise how pathetically childish that sounds when we are talking about gun control.
As has been said many times only guns are designed with the specific aim of causing harm/killing.

Brian

 

[Brianwarnock]

Jax old buddy,
Are you also going to include dog owners that their dog kills a person?

In this country the dog would be put down and the person facing a jail sentence.
Some breeds are banned.

Brian

 

[ConnorGiles]

In this country the dog would be put down and the person facing a jail sentence.
Some breeds are banned.

Brian

Although banned - not enforced, I know many people with Pit Bulls around my area, I don't see a problem with the breed. It is the Stereotype of the breed due to the owners knowing its a fierce fighting dog....

My dogs currently - (I have 4) they are called "Caucasian Ovcharka" give them a search. They are used in Russia to kill wolves to protect farmers sheep.

They are lovely dogs, Although extremely protective of our household (They are bred to be protective since in Russia they are currently used as police enforcement dogs).

Its a handful don't get me wrong, but they are lovely dogs. If this breed got into the wrong hands they would be "Banned" almost instantly so when we bred our dogs we scoped the families out thoroughly and made sure it would be going to a good home.

We had multiple dog fight owners phone up (Not self proclaimed but would often ask how aggressive they were and would ask if they could put up a fight) and we instantly told them where to go.

It winds me up how in our country the dog can be blamed for so many incidents when it is the owners fault completely. Yes the dog from then on is "Damaged Goods" due to its newly gained aggressive nature and sadly must be put down to stop further harm to the public. But the people behind this thing don't get half as much time as they should.

(Bear in mind - my mind may be poisoned as I have grew up with dogs in my family, So I may be swayed towards the Dogs side of the argument ).

 

[ConnorGiles]

Well done Connor, Dick and Blade frequently play the "knives Kill", "cars Kill" etc " lets ban everything" card, they don't realise how pathetically childish that sounds when we are talking about gun control.
As has been said many times only guns are designed with the specific aim of causing harm/killing.

Brian

I couldn't resist putting a comment about the dog thing, But I do feel that the subject was swaying away from Gun Control.

 

[Vassago]

"It was recently reported by the NYT's; a major finding is that about half of accidental child firearm deaths are misclassified in the statistics compiled by the Centers for Disease Control. They (the authors) looking at data from four states dating back to 1999, from a fifth state dating back to 2007, and from several smaller jurisdictions that make records available, the authors produced just 259 cases in which a child 14 or younger was accidentally killed with a firearm.

So, let's do some more detailed statistical work. According to the CDC, about 5 in every 100,000 children ages 1 to 14 die from accidental injuries every year. (This is a pretty low number in terms of lifetime risks; accidental deaths skyrocket when you hit the 15-19 age group.) Here are the top ten causes in chart form; I've included both the CDC's number for guns and an adjusted number (double that):
You can see by looking at the X axis that guns do, indeed, move up several places in the rankings when you double the number. But you can see from the Y axis that gun accidents remain a rare cause of unintentional death for children. More than half of such deaths are from cars and water, and shuffling the rankings below fourth place doesn't really change the overall picture. The official CDC stat is that 0.11 in every 100,000 children die from gun accidents every year; doubling that brings it to 0.22 -- just 4.4 percent of the overall rate of 5 per 100,000, in a country in which around 40 percent of households have guns." (see chart)


http://www.realclearpolicy.com/blog/2013/09/29/how_common_are_child_gun_accidents_666.html

Let's outlaw or restrict cars to only those that have a permit to own. This does not include the license enabling driving.Why?

"More than 650 children 12 and under were killed in crashes in 2011," Sauber-Schatz said. "That's more than a dozen children every week."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/02/04/cdc-too-many-kids-die-unbuckled/5204127/




I know you need a cause to cheer for but get one that is a little more noble.

What does this have to do with irresponsible parents and there needing to be more laws protecting kids from guns? Because it doesn't happen all that often in your opinion, it doesn't matter? This is a completely avoidable problem! Don't put a loaded gun under a couch with a 3 year old! What's wrong with that?

Jax old buddy,
Are you also going to include dog owners that their dog kills a person?

If the dog owner was negligent, why not? If I had a violent dog that I knew was prone to attack a child and I allowed a 3 year old into my home and he was maimed by the dog in the face because I left the dog out instead of locking him up, I would certainly be negligent of the attack.

Just because banning something else doesn't mean Gun crime won't happen any more. The real problem is that accidental deaths happen more and more each year, I wouldn't think a ban is necessary but a extremely strict regulation would be in order. This would (maybe) in turn reduce accidental shootings dramatically such as (what Vassago has explained) Warning the intruder or even identifying the person before pulling the trigger.

That's the status quo. If someone even mentions tougher laws for gun owners, even if it means to protect accidental deaths and children from easily obtaining a loaded weapon, the words are twisted to mean, "Oh, you want to ban and take my guns!"

It doesn't matter what the statistics are of children with guns. The whole problem is, it shouldn't happen AT ALL! It can EASILY be avoided by not putting a loaded gun in a position where a little toddler can obtain the weapon. Why would is that such a hard concept?

My dogs currently - (I have 4) they are called "Caucasian Ovcharka" give them a search.

Wow! Beautiful bears... I mean, dogs! I prefer my wolfish dogs. I want a Husky.

 

[ColinEssex]

We hear on the BBC news that there is rioting in 28 states with looting and burning of buildings etc etc.

It's apparently because an unarmed black man was shot by a policeman.

Do the current gun laws in America have any bearing on this? Or is it just blacks being opportunist and jumping on the bandwagon just to cause trouble for the hell of it.
Could it have anything to do with the inbred racial hatred white America has for black people?

Has the current situation been reported on the news? Or is it accepted as the norm?

Col

 

[Vassago]

We hear on the BBC news that there is rioting in 28 states with looting and burning of buildings etc etc.

It's apparently because an unarmed black man was shot by a policeman.

Do the current gun laws in America have any bearing on this? Or is it just blacks being opportunist and jumping on the bandwagon just to cause trouble for the hell of it.
Could it have anything to do with the inbred racial hatred white America has for black people?

Has the current situation been reported on the news? Or is it accepted as the norm?

Col

The people doing the looting and rioting are opportunistic thugs using the death of this kid to justify their criminal behavior, which is pretty sickening no matter where you stand on the case.

As far as rioting in 28 states, I think that's media over-exaggeration. There are protests in a lot of places, but most of them have been peaceful. Ferguson, MO is where most of the destruction is occurring.

 

[Bladerunner]

First of all, What should be done? Put the father in Jail??........ That would be Real Good thinking!?. I believe that the family has already paid highly for a mistake or the bad choice they made about a gun. It is that simple. Yet, since the main agenda is to get rid of guns altogether, people use this as a jumping point to say:"there should be a law against that". Fellas, I say it is an agenda you have , much like I was accused of having. A fetish one might say. And there are those in the USA that want to ban guns because their agenda will not work as long as the guns are around.
As for Colin's last statement: Mr. Brown was shot by a policeman in the line of duty. The evidence shows this. However there are always people that make a living on hate and racism (i.e. Al Sharpton , etc), Last night(Tuesday), there were forty people arrested in Fergusen MO. Thirty -eight of them did not live in Fergusen. These people are called starters. Rem. Mob rule is usually just a leader away from being able to whip-up peoples emotions in a short period of time. As I have been told so many times by the people on this and other threads, don't believe everything you hear.

 

[Frothingslosh]

We hear on the BBC news that there is rioting in 28 states with looting and burning of buildings etc etc.

It's apparently because an unarmed black man was shot by a policeman.

Do the current gun laws in America have any bearing on this? Or is it just blacks being opportunist and jumping on the bandwagon just to cause trouble for the hell of it.
Could it have anything to do with the inbred racial hatred white America has for black people?

Has the current situation been reported on the news? Or is it accepted as the norm?

Col

This is, unfortunately, an extreme oversimplification of a case that is incredibly, incredilby messy, including:

• Racism
• Police Brutality
• Racial Profiling
• Possible prosecutorial misconduct
• As Vassago mentioned, thugs using this as an excuse to commit crimes

I haven't followed it as closely as I should have, but there have been all sorts of conflicting stories, changed stories, spin-doctoring, and the like. This happened in an area where the police are constantly fielding complaints of racial profiling and general racism, and last week several of the cops on that force were outed as KKK members.

Monday, a grand jury declined to indict the cop in question, and a lot of people (including a TON of lawyers) feel that the prosecutor in question completely threw the hearing in order to get the cop off. The general saying is that a prosecutor could indict a ham sandwich without really trying. Last year, in 160,000 federal grand jury hearings, exactly 11 failed to indict. I couldn't find state numbers, but they have to be in the same ballpark.

As a result, much as with the Rodney King beating trial, there were all sorts of protests and a number of riots. I'm pretty sure 28 states aren't having riots, though. Protests, yes. Riots, no.

Edit: While I cannot see Bladerunner's post, I can only assume it effectively says 'the cop did everything right'. Please bear in mind that Blade outed himself as a white supremecist in this forum a couple weeks ago, and that any posts by him regarding racial relations should be read with that firmly in mind.

 

[ColinEssex]

The people doing the looting and rioting are opportunistic thugs using the death of this kid to justify their criminal behavior, which is pretty sickening no matter where you stand on the case.

Yes, the same thing happened in London a few tears ago, rioting and looting etc.

I'll tell you what though, in America on thanksgiving day there will be many giving thanks for the new looted TV, clothing, shoes, watches, jewellery.

In London we even saw CCTV footage of a bloke in a wheelchair struggling to carry a 42" TV and wheel his chair at the same time, really funny.

Col