Gun laws do they work

[Bladerunner]

I think it is unfair to blame Frothingslosh for people having an opinion Bladerunner.

Unless this incident was captured on film, no one but the police officer and the victim will know what REALLY happened. Evidence can only paint a picture.

His friend who saw the whole story "apparently" has a very different story to the one you gave.

And he was there! (Apparently of course)

Don't take it as me being against the police officer here Bladerunner, As I've said before.

I like to see both sides of the story before making a firm opinion.

Just read the evidence. It includes the testimony of his friend in crime plus some other friends. When they got on the stand they fell apart. There were some people (Black so you know) came up and corroborated every part of the officers story. Three different autopsies one (private) also corroborated the officers story.

I ask you as I have asked many times before. If you are put into a situation where you feared for your life. What would you do?????DIE??????????? RUN and then DIE???????? stand your ground and maybe just maybe LIVE???????

Keep in mind you have less than 10 seconds to decide.

 

[Bladerunner]

I was addressing the "fishy" issue not gun crime,I.e. Cover ups and whitewashes.
Hillsborough is the name of Sheffield United's stadium where 96 football fans died, the establishment blamed the fans instead of their own incompetence, many police officers changed their reports after they had been seen by senior officers, the review has been reopened after 25 years of campaigning and is ongoing.

Brian

Never heard of it.??? can you eleborate??

 

[Frothingslosh]

Getting in an officer's face is obviously ALWAYS a bad idea. Be respectful and calm, and definitely get video of the officer, just not in their face. They may get agitated, as they can for any reason, but they can't do anything about it (legally) as it's completely legal to do so. It's been upheld countless times that as an officer acting as a public servant, they have no expectation of privacy so can't even use that as an excuse, which clears up any permission for audio recording issues that arise.

You'll find that many officers respect and appreciate someone who knows and stands up for their rights, even if only on camera.

Just be careful, because not every officer knows it's legal, while some others know and don't care.

I may normally tend to side with the police, but even I will admit that there are some seriously bad ones, even outside of Ferguson.

 

[Bladerunner]

I'm still to learn your name Bladerunner.

But anyways, This does not address Gun control.

What we are saying is accidental deaths could be dramatically reduced if people would just stop and think to secure their fire arms or make sure it isn't left loaded.

Shooting of innocents happens on the daily, That isn't gun control - That is crimes committed with guns.

From 2005-2010, almost 3,800 people in the U.S. died from unintentional shootings. http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-deaths-and-injuries-statistics/

3,800 people out of a 350,000,000 population is about 0.0010%, yet you cry only for these people. What about the ones that were killed by bad guys who would have a gun whether gun control was in effect or not. That would 35% or roughly 63,000 innocent deaths.

Me thinkest your priotites are upside down. Lets stop the criminal.

Now to be fair, 60% of all gun deaths are suicide. there were about 90,000 during the last 5 years. Oh, only 50% of the suicides are gun deaths.

Jesus, Fellas lets get off the agenda to Ban, Control, Eliminate guns in the USA. They are all the same damn thing. They give control of the population over to someone else in power. You people in UK should be able to agree with that or is it you like to be chained or caged.

I'm still to learn your name Bladerunner. ????What does this mean Mr. Connor Giles.

 

[Bladerunner]

I would have to agree with both of these, with a caveat. Do NOT get in the officer's face with the camera, even if you're the one being stopped. Filming them is, unfortunately, an escalation, if only a small one, and too many times one side or the other starts going nuts because of the filming.

Also, remember that many patrol cars have a dashboard camera that is always recording.

Always funny to see (via Connor's quote) Blade losing his mind along with his grip on reality.

Unfortunately for the case of Fergusen, MO. the camera in all cars are facing through the front windshield.

 

[Bladerunner]

It's nothing compared to the cost of litigation that arises because of lawsuits and false trials, even if the city wins, etc... They really are not that expensive, have you looked it up? I don't buy this as an accurate excuse to not impliment them.

The cheapest I've seen is under $100 a piece. Hardly much of a cost for a police department to fork up.

No I have not looked them up but as with any thing associated with the Gov. it usually is 10 or 20x as much. Rem the $5,000 toilet seat? I would that in the near future, they all will have cameras. There will always be a reason why the results of the cameras are bad. Just keep that in mind. The COP is the Bad guy in most neighborhoods in the larger cities. Like some one said about the gun control." It will not work"

 

[Bladerunner]

Getting in an officer's face is obviously ALWAYS a bad idea. Be respectful and calm, and definitely get video of the officer, just not in their face. They may get agitated, as they can for any reason, but they can't do anything about it (legally) as it's completely legal to do so. It's been upheld countless times that as an officer acting as a public servant, they have no expectation of privacy so can't even use that as an excuse, which clears up any permission for audio recording issues that arise.

You'll find that many officers respect and appreciate someone who knows and stands up for their rights, even if only on camera.

I know a lot of officers and they would not mind cameras. However, camers in the wrong hands can be edited and some of these people will go to any extent to aid their agendas. Now, take the Fergusen, MO. riots. They cannot be disputed because the video were from the news service(s) and the key here is with an (s). It is hard to edit the film to reflect only on way of thinking when there are several out there.

I guess the biggest question I have would there have been a riot(s) if Mr. Brown had been WHITE. This goes back to the agenda.

 

[Bladerunner]

Just be careful, because not every officer knows it's legal, while some others know and don't care.

I may normally tend to side with the police, but even I will admit that there are some seriously bad ones, even outside of Ferguson.

I disagree. To the extent a policeman or a sheriffs deputy has to be trained before they hit the streets, the atmosphere especially concerning the Race category, They ALL KNOW? Now , I will agree with you that some do not care. These need to be removed and will be little by little. Not everyone fits your mold of the typical law officer.

 

[Vassago]

Just be careful, because not every officer knows it's legal, while some others know and don't care.

I may normally tend to side with the police, but even I will admit that there are some seriously bad ones, even outside of Ferguson.

I'll turn this back around on them. Ignorance of the law is no excuse to break it. You can't murder someone and say "oh, I didn't know it wasn't legal" and expect that to fly. They SHOULD know the law, which is part of the problem.

 

[Vassago]

I know a lot of officers and they would not mind cameras. However, camers in the wrong hands can be edited and some of these people will go to any extent to aid their agendas. Now, take the Fergusen, MO. riots. They cannot be disputed because the video were from the news service(s) and the key here is with an (s). It is hard to edit the film to reflect only on way of thinking when there are several out there.

I guess the biggest question I have would there have been a riot(s) if Mr. Brown had been WHITE. This goes back to the agenda.

So, your point for them to not have cameras is because they MAY be able to edit the videos? That's redundant. That's like saying they shouldn't have guns because they MAY shoot an innocent person.

 

[Bladerunner]

So, your point for them to not have cameras is because they MAY be able to edit the videos? That's redundant. That's like saying they shouldn't have guns because they MAY shoot an innocent person.

Think you took what I meant wrong. I think they (Lawofficers) should all have cameras. The cameras I was talking about being edited were the personal camera from the citizens. Some of them would no doubt edit or have it edited to coincide with their agenda The police film would go against the edited film and then all of a sudden, we are back to square one. Ferguson, MO.

 

[Vassago]

Think you took what I meant wrong. I think they (Lawofficers) should all have cameras. The cameras I was talking about being edited were the personal camera from the citizens. Some of them would no doubt edit or have it edited to coincide with their agenda The police film would go against the edited film and then all of a sudden, we are back to square one. Ferguson, MO.

I did misunderstand. Sorry about that.

Ferguson is hardly square one. No matter which side you are on with that one, there's no denying the gun-crazy direction and police state that has existed for years. Cameras are just bringing more of them to light.

Besides, no one has any video of the confrontation with Mike Brown, which is part of the problem.

Video editting is almost always obvious to an expert anyway. It would take someone very highly skilled to edit the video to a point where it wasn't catchable. I'm still on the side that some type of video evidence is better than a case where all we have is the police officer's story and conflicting witnesses.

 

[Bladerunner]

I did misunderstand. Sorry about that.

Ferguson is hardly square one. No matter which side you are on with that one, there's no denying the gun-crazy direction and police state that has existed for years. Cameras are just bringing more of them to light.

Besides, no one has any video of the confrontation with Mike Brown, which is part of the problem.

Video editting is almost always obvious to an expert anyway. It would take someone very highly skilled to edit the video to a point where it wasn't catchable. I'm still on the side that some type of video evidence is better than a case where all we have is the police officer's story and conflicting witnesses.

I agree with you about the cameras. However, in this case, all the evidence with the exception of some of the witnesses corroborated the policeman facts completely including why he had to shoot him up to six times. It appears that the first shot in the hand was in the cruiser were Mr. Brown was assaulting the policeman and trying to take the gun away from him. I feel that if this had been the case, the policeman would have been #107 this year to die in the line of duty. You never hear about them.

http://www.odmp.org/search/year

After being shot in the hand, it appears Mr. Brown proceeded to leave the scene. The Policeman stopped him because he was a suspect for robbery and assaulting the owner (captured on film). A lot of people say, if he had let him go, he (Brown) would not have died.

Once the policeman gave him the order to stop and hit the ground. he started charging the policeman. Keep in mind that this fellow was about 200-250 lbs and the policeman was about 175. In the confines of a car, one might hold his own but out in the open, it would be hard and he (the policeman) apparently felt that if Mr. Brown ever got a hold of him, Mr. Brown would kill him. Two of the next shots hit him (Mr. Brown) in his shoulder(s) and it still did not stop him. The final bullet hit him in the front-top of the head. From the evidence, he was 15 foot away at this time and had his head leaned forward in anticipation of attacking the policeman. Of course the bullet to the head stopped him and (Mr. Brown) ended up about 5 feet away from the policeman. We also know that now he (Mr. Brown) was unarmed but when he started his attack he put his hand in his pocket as if to take out a weapon. I'll not go through the whole evidence.

I will be the first to say that if there was any doubt, I myself would convict the policeman but in this case, as bad as it is for the family, Mr. Brown was a thug high on Marijuana, who had just robbed a grocery store, assaulted the owner and then assaulted the very policeman who eventually killed him.

You will have to read them an decide.keep in mind, all of this happened (the second attack) in about 10 sec. or so. What would you have done differently?

 

[Brianwarnock]

Never heard of it.??? can you eleborate??

It really has nothing to do with the real subject of this thread, namely gun control, and was mentioned only in relation to cover ups. It is a long standing issue, it happened in 1989. Google
Hillsborough disaster or Hillsborough Inquest will give you more hits than you care to think .

Brian

 

[Brianwarnock]

.

Jesus, Fellas lets get off the agenda to Ban, Control, Eliminate guns in the USA. They are all the same damn thing. They give control of the population over to someone else in power. You people in UK should be able to agree with that or is it you like to be chained or caged.

My bolding.
I don't recognise this scenario, please explain.

Brian

 

[Dick7Access]

I started this thread I believe in 2012. Over 1800 post going all over the place, which is ok with me, but yet not one post has answered my original question. I have posted my views right along with everyone else. I am right of some and left of others. If you are for total or partial ban on guns, it behooves you to sight examples where guns laws have made a significant difference in the USA. Not GB or Aussie, different culture.

 

[Frothingslosh]

Brian - Basically, Bladerunner believes in the Illuminati, and that anyone who disagrees with him in any way is part of it. Just look back at all his "LIBERALS ARE TRYING TO DESTROY AMERICA BECAUSE THEY HATE FREEDOM" idiocy.

Asking him to explain why he feels background checks = white holocaust is like asking a schizophrenic why he barked at the moon, and the explanation will make just about as much sense.

 

[Bladerunner]

Brian - Basically, Bladerunner believes in the Illuminati, and that anyone who disagrees with him in any way is part of it. Just look back at all his "LIBERALS ARE TRYING TO DESTROY AMERICA BECAUSE THEY HATE FREEDOM" idiocy.

Asking him to explain why he feels background checks = white holocaust is like asking a schizophrenic why he barked at the moon, and the explanation will make just about as much sense.

Ah why did I even doubt you would do anything but try to destroy people. I am surprise he has not called me a racist yet!

However, Mr. Frothingslosh what do you mean background checks?. Everyone who has a gun carry permit in Tn. has to go through a background check every time they purchase a gun. I myself have been checked many times! Now what part of that you did not understand. You do know that the person who knows they will not pass the background check will simply buy the gun on the black market. As someone said in an earlier post, Gun Control does not work.Only the law abiding citizens will follow the rules.

I agree with Dick7Access and think you should put you ideology where your mouth is and answer his questions.

 

[Bladerunner]

My bolding.
I don't recognise this scenario, please explain.

Brian

I earlier said "They give control of the population over to someone else in power. You people in UK should be able to agree with that or is it you like to be chained or caged."
Chains or Caged was meant to indicated that with your guns gone, you are at the mercy of the Government (whoever is in power). Keep in mind even in this country we are all in some type of bondage. Just not at this time the type you have over there. Brian, no insults were intended. I guess sometime I speak a little too straight....

 

[Brianwarnock]

Blade I did not take your statement as an insult, you cannot feel insulted by something you do not understand.

I do not accept your statement which seems to suggest that we are less free in the UK than you are in the USA. In fact I would say that I feel freer to walk the streets and countryside than you apparently do. People have different ideas of freedom.
I believe that the West makes the mistake of thinking that all people in the world want to be ruled by an elected government, I'm not convinced. Some just want to get on with their lives and have no objection to a strong dictatorship or ruling oligarchy as long as it leaves them alone. Hell some live under that sort of dictatorship in their religion.

If I distrusted the UK establishment to the level that you distrust yours then yes I might want to be armed, but then I look at Syria and say no thanks.

Brian