Gun laws do they work

[Brianwarnock]

I started this thread I believe in 2012. Over 1800 post going all over the place, which is ok with me, but yet not one post has answered my original question. I have posted my views right along with everyone else. I am right of some and left of others. If you are for total or partial ban on guns, it behooves you to sight examples where guns laws have made a significant difference in the USA. Not GB or Aussie, different culture.

Any law only works if it is implemented and enforced properly, as that does not appear to be the case in the USA then the answer is no.

I would point out that you did not qualify the question to only apply to the USA.

Brian

 

[ConnorGiles]

I would have to agree with both of these, with a caveat. Do NOT get in the officer's face with the camera, even if you're the one being stopped. Filming them is, unfortunately, an escalation, if only a small one, and too many times one side or the other starts going nuts because of the filming.

Also, remember that many patrol cars have a dashboard camera that is always recording.

Always funny to see (via Connor's quote) Blade losing his mind along with his grip on reality.

It just seems the topic has raced away from gun control without looking back

And I have no reason why!

 

[ConnorGiles]

Double Post!

Never even saw how many posts their has been since friday!

Give me time to reflect.

 

[ConnorGiles]

Just read the evidence. It includes the testimony of his friend in crime plus some other friends. When they got on the stand they fell apart. There were some people (Black so you know) came up and corroborated every part of the officers story. Three different autopsies one (private) also corroborated the officers story.

I ask you as I have asked many times before. If you are put into a situation where you feared for your life. What would you do?????DIE??????????? RUN and then DIE???????? stand your ground and maybe just maybe LIVE???????

Keep in mind you have less than 10 seconds to decide.

I don't disagree with what he said he did. Because what he said would abide by everything the police are allowed to do. Protect themselves or the public. But if you are taking the word of people who "apparently" saw what happened to the last detail. Then you cannot be classed as a valid source of information.

I think I remember seeing a robot run outside my house last night. Or was that just something I saw on a film.

Memories can be hazy and imagination can do its part. Never trust someone who has said they "saw" everything. Unless its a video showing exactly what happened, Memories cannot and will not be a source of evidence in my books.

There are also many people who have come forward (many more against the police officer than on his side, and this isn't because they have some sort of grudge against the police) proclaiming otherwise to his statements because they "saw" everything also.

 

[ConnorGiles]

From 2005-2010, almost 3,800 people in the U.S. died from unintentional shootings. http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-deaths-and-injuries-statistics/

3,800 people out of a 350,000,000 population is about 0.0010%, yet you cry only for these people. What about the ones that were killed by bad guys who would have a gun whether gun control was in effect or not. That would 35% or roughly 63,000 innocent deaths.

This is again, off topic Bladerunner.

This is yet another problem with guns and should be on another thread

Yes bad guys have guns and kill people but that has 0 to do with gun control.

Me thinkest your priotites are upside down. Lets stop the criminal.

I don't think my priorities are anywhere but the right way up, I agree criminals must be stopped.

But we could stop innocent people from becoming criminals with just a little gun control.

But again that is for another thread.

Now to be fair, 60% of all gun deaths are suicide. there were about 90,000 during the last 5 years. Oh, only 50% of the suicides are gun deaths.

Yet another off topic subject.

Jesus, Fellas lets get off the agenda to Ban, Control, Eliminate guns in the USA. They are all the same damn thing. They give control of the population over to someone else in power. You people in UK should be able to agree with that or is it you like to be chained or caged.

On the contrary, Ban means get rid off. So does eliminate.

This is not the agenda, Control means keep your damn weapons safe, not out in the open.

WE ARE NOT TRYING TO GET RID OF YOUR WEAPONS! Its called gun control for a reason.

I'm still to learn your name Bladerunner. ????What does this mean Mr. Connor Giles.

You know my name is of course Connor, What is yours?

For addressing you directly

Please from now on, Try and stick to Gun Control rather than Gun Crime.

We aren't trying to ban your weapons. Its more about keeping you and other people safe.

 

[ConnorGiles]

I agree with you about the cameras. However, in this case, all the evidence with the exception of some of the witnesses corroborated the policeman facts completely including why he had to shoot him up to six times. It appears that the first shot in the hand was in the cruiser were Mr. Brown was assaulting the policeman and trying to take the gun away from him. I feel that if this had been the case, the policeman would have been #107 this year to die in the line of duty. You never hear about them.

http://www.odmp.org/search/year

After being shot in the hand, it appears Mr. Brown proceeded to leave the scene. The Policeman stopped him because he was a suspect for robbery and assaulting the owner (captured on film). A lot of people say, if he had let him go, he (Brown) would not have died.

Once the policeman gave him the order to stop and hit the ground. he started charging the policeman. Keep in mind that this fellow was about 200-250 lbs and the policeman was about 175. In the confines of a car, one might hold his own but out in the open, it would be hard and he (the policeman) apparently felt that if Mr. Brown ever got a hold of him, Mr. Brown would kill him. Two of the next shots hit him (Mr. Brown) in his shoulder(s) and it still did not stop him. The final bullet hit him in the front-top of the head. From the evidence, he was 15 foot away at this time and had his head leaned forward in anticipation of attacking the policeman. Of course the bullet to the head stopped him and (Mr. Brown) ended up about 5 feet away from the policeman. We also know that now he (Mr. Brown) was unarmed but when he started his attack he put his hand in his pocket as if to take out a weapon. I'll not go through the whole evidence.

I will be the first to say that if there was any doubt, I myself would convict the policeman but in this case, as bad as it is for the family, Mr. Brown was a thug high on Marijuana, who had just robbed a grocery store, assaulted the owner and then assaulted the very policeman who eventually killed him.

You will have to read them an decide.keep in mind, all of this happened (the second attack) in about 10 sec. or so. What would you have done differently?

I read somewhere that the Fatal shot was from 2 foot away due to gunshot residue on Browns head. and another inquest was that Mr.Brown also had his hands raised in surrender before the fatal shot was fired on his hands and knees. (Which may explain the 2 foot away and shot to the head, Which would have been an execution)

 

[Brianwarnock]

You know my name is of course Connor, What is yours?

For addressing you directly

Many, most, use pseudonyms so don't get hung up on Bladerunner.
If I were starting out again I would not use my full name not only has identity theft increased massively since I first started but a guy not far from me got a little bit upset at some of my posts, his posts got slightly threatening. He was suspended a couple of times and eventually banned for life. For a while it was worrying, my offer to meet face to face to resolve the issues was turned down.


Brian

 

[ConnorGiles]

Many, most, use pseudonyms so don't get hung up on Bladerunner.
If I were starting out again I would not use my full name not only has identity theft increased massively since I first started but a guy not far from me got a little bit upset at some of my posts, his posts got slightly threatening. He was suspended a couple of times and eventually banned for life. For a while it was worrying, my offer to meet face to face to resolve the issues was turned down.


Brian

I would say Identity theft would be quite hard to do just over this site. I don't mind people knowing my name , I think its nice to know someone's name because it shows you remember them and can acquaint yourself accordingly with them

 

[Brianwarnock]

Those involved in identity theft glean small bits of info from all sorts of places and although this site may be way down the list it's getting your principles and habits right that matters.

Brian

 

[ConnorGiles]

If this is so, We are already doomed Brian

Too damn many Connor Giles's for my liking anyway.

Searching for me on a Social Media site, Is very much like searching for the TV controller when you've just watched a long film.

 

[Vassago]

I agree with you about the cameras. However, in this case, all the evidence with the exception of some of the witnesses corroborated the policeman facts completely including why he had to shoot him up to six times. It appears that the first shot in the hand was in the cruiser were Mr. Brown was assaulting the policeman and trying to take the gun away from him. I feel that if this had been the case, the policeman would have been #107 this year to die in the line of duty. You never hear about them.

http://www.odmp.org/search/year

After being shot in the hand, it appears Mr. Brown proceeded to leave the scene. The Policeman stopped him because he was a suspect for robbery and assaulting the owner (captured on film). A lot of people say, if he had let him go, he (Brown) would not have died.

Once the policeman gave him the order to stop and hit the ground. he started charging the policeman. Keep in mind that this fellow was about 200-250 lbs and the policeman was about 175. In the confines of a car, one might hold his own but out in the open, it would be hard and he (the policeman) apparently felt that if Mr. Brown ever got a hold of him, Mr. Brown would kill him. Two of the next shots hit him (Mr. Brown) in his shoulder(s) and it still did not stop him. The final bullet hit him in the front-top of the head. From the evidence, he was 15 foot away at this time and had his head leaned forward in anticipation of attacking the policeman. Of course the bullet to the head stopped him and (Mr. Brown) ended up about 5 feet away from the policeman. We also know that now he (Mr. Brown) was unarmed but when he started his attack he put his hand in his pocket as if to take out a weapon. I'll not go through the whole evidence.

I will be the first to say that if there was any doubt, I myself would convict the policeman but in this case, as bad as it is for the family, Mr. Brown was a thug high on Marijuana, who had just robbed a grocery store, assaulted the owner and then assaulted the very policeman who eventually killed him.

You will have to read them an decide.keep in mind, all of this happened (the second attack) in about 10 sec. or so. What would you have done differently?

I think you missed the point of my post... It's not about Mike Brown, it's about stopping situations where video evidence would actually prove something. I've seen all of the evidence and all of the evidence refuting the evidence and all of the evidence refuting the evidence refuting the evidence. Video would put it all to an end.

And the point of my post was that it would put many of these cases to an end.

 

[Bladerunner]

I read somewhere that the Fatal shot was from 2 foot away due to gunshot residue on Browns head. and another inquest was that Mr.Brown also had his hands raised in surrender before the fatal shot was fired on his hands and knees. (Which may explain the 2 foot away and shot to the head, Which would have been an execution)

It appears he fell somewhere 5-8 feet away from the officer. This still is not a lot but if you afraid for your life, what do you do? From what I understand, the powder burns were on the hand. Imagine you have someone charging you in a rage. they have their head lower, hands raised in the anticipation of effectively tackling you. Simply watch a game of football and see how the human body twists and turns when attacking an opponent.

All the evidence including 7-8 eye witnesses that held up the officers story to the letter, points to he was only guilty of having to kill someone in the line of duty. Like the Trayvon Martin case, Mr. Brown's parents will file a wrongful death lawsuit against the officer and the city Police force. While there is no evidence to support anything in the way of a conviction, as in the Trayvon Martin case, a settlement will be made simply because of the cost of a trial far outweighs what a settlement would cost. Instead of hollering at me, calling me names, simply wait and see if it comes true and then jump on me. If I am wrong, I will say so but I don't think I am wrong.

p.s. The only good thing to come out of this horrific event, is that law enforcement departments across the country will be forced to buy and wear body cams. Having said this, I believe as I have stated before, there will come a time when a body cam is not working or is torn off in a scuffle. An event much like this one will take place again and with no film evidence, this whole scenerio will play out again and again.

Rem. Nothing has been said to the effect: Mr. Brown caused all of this all by himself!

 

[ConnorGiles]

It appears he fell somewhere 5-8 feet away from the officer. This still is not a lot but if you afraid for your life, what do you do? From what I understand, the powder burns were on the hand. Imagine you have someone charging you in a rage. they have their head lower, hands raised in the anticipation of effectively tackling you. Simply watch a game of football and see how the human body twists and turns when attacking an opponent.

All the evidence including 7-8 eye witnesses that held up the officers story to the letter, points to he was only guilty of having to kill someone in the line of duty. Like the Trayvon Martin case, Mr. Brown's parents will file a wrongful death lawsuit against the officer and the city Police force. While there is no evidence to support anything in the way of a conviction, as in the Trayvon Martin case, a settlement will be made simply because of the cost of a trial far outweighs what a settlement would cost. Instead of hollering at me, calling me names, simply wait and see if it comes true and then jump on me. If I am wrong, I will say so but I don't think I am wrong.

p.s. The only good thing to come out of this horrific event, is that law enforcement departments across the country will be forced to buy and wear body cams. Having said this, I believe as I have stated before, there will come a time when a body cam is not working or is torn off in a scuffle. An event much like this one will take place again and with no film evidence, this whole scenerio will play out again and again.

Rem. Nothing has been said to the effect: Mr. Brown caused all of this all by himself!

This isn't Gun Control, for the last time but I shall continue.

I don't remember calling names

Plus some body camera's actually feed directly to a server somewhere else. So if someone does rip it off, The person who did was probably documented doing so. Also ripping it off would be seen as an act of aggression towards a police officer.

Which would probably result in the "I was scared for my life scenario" once again.

Guns are used way too much over there when there is no need for them (Police force of course, this is not me saying take them away!)

A police officer should not be on the force if they cannot detain someone without the need for a firearm.

Surely some kind of training would have been given to detain someone bigger than yourself on the force? And I thought you were required to be with a fellow police officer? Surely that may have given the situation 2 police standpoints or maybe even avoided this incident completely.

Guns shouldn't be used as a threat (In terms of pointing it at them, Saying I will use my firearm is different). It should only be used as a consequence.

 

[Brianwarnock]

I have refrained from entering the Wilson/Brown discussion as I was not there but I did see the video of the robbery. Connor did you see how big Mr Brown was? Only in the movies does the little guy in the white hat win. I don't intend being rude or whatever but I think your last post displayed some naivety, perhaps its down to your size as I believe that you are a big guy.

Brian

 

[ConnorGiles]

I stand 6'4 or 5 inches, so you are correct in believing that, But still if a police officer cannot detain someone surely he hasn't been trained enough to be out on the streets.

And again reiterating my point, Why did he not have a fellow police officer with him on duty? I thought they did that over there as we do over here?

That may have been the difference between a teen being jailed instead of killed. He may not have been so bold as to try and "Grab the Police Officers Gun" if he wasn't alone in the car.

 

[Brianwarnock]

I've seen lone police officers over there as I have here, but I guess only an American can really answer this question.

Brian

 

[ConnorGiles]

I thought it was basic procedure for both our and their benefit to patrol alongside someone else.

Safer on both sides.

 

[Frothingslosh]

Many, if not most, police departments in the US don't use the buddy system due to budget limitations.

 

[Vassago]

Many, if not most, police departments in the US don't use the buddy system due to budget limitations.

Yes, but if confronting someone suspected of committing a serious crime, they are supposed to wait for backup unless the person represents an immediate risk. That's one area where this guy probably screwed up. He confronted the suspect rather than wait for backup to arrive once the guy started running. I know in the heat of the moment, especially after getting attacked, it's hard to hold back and make rational decisions, but that could have drastically changed things for everyone involved. If he's running away unarmed, he's no longer a threat. You follow, but keep it safe.

 

[Frothingslosh]

Yes, but if confronting someone suspected of committing a serious crime, they are supposed to wait for backup unless the person represents an immediate risk. That's one area where this guy probably screwed up. He confronted the suspect rather than wait for backup to arrive once the guy started running. I know in the heat of the moment, especially after getting attacked, it's hard to hold back and make rational decisions, but that could have drastically changed things for everyone involved. If he's running away unarmed, he's no longer a threat. You follow, but keep it safe.

Oh, I don't disagree; I was just answering our British compatriots' question.

The fact that Wilson shot at a fleeing individual is enough to indicate training had been left by the wayside; in fact, these days, shooting at a fleeing suspect is never considered justified.