Keep off the grass

[FoFa]

Maybe you have different sources than I do but all I could find was his statement that he had been bullied, without any other proof from anywhere else.

Poor guy, most likely stayed awake at night, thinking about his poor lawn being trampeled under the feet of those bullies! Those poor little grass blades, crushed beyound recognition. Have you no heart?!? Quotes by neigbors said he was a good neighbor also. Sounds like he was bullied into violence. No one to help him with his delima. This poor guy has been going through mental anguish for years, yet everyone jumps on the side of the bully. Why is that? Don't you think if the kids parent taught him respect, this would have happened? Nothing I read said the guy was out "hunting" this kid.

 

[jsanders]

Fofa

One can only hope that your posts are some sort of twisted attempt at humor. If you are actually being honest here, please seek help immediately.

Many parents in our country are grossly under supervising their children, but using extreme measures is not the answer.

Possibly mandatory public service would be more appropriate. Even the French require some sort of service to their country.

And once again your misuse of the word liberal, serves to demonstrate the extreme need to end the reign of the Republican Nazis.

PS I will be reenergizing the political debates very soon.

 

[FoFa]

One can only hope that your posts are some sort of twisted attempt at humor. If you are actually being honest here, please seek help immediately.

Not humor, but actually the attempt to show there are actually two sides to everything. Now his action, a little on the extrem side, perhapes maybe his only response as he saw it. If he truly felt bullied by this kid and his parents for five years, maybe in his mind he had no other recourse. He may have thought he was "up against the wall, cornered, with no way out" and was in last resort mode. I am not justifying his actions, but don't think everyine should jump to conclusions until the whole story is released.

And once again your misuse of the word liberal, serves to demonstrate the extreme need to end the reign of the Republican Nazis.

Only if you are a liberal. You only have to watch CNN, MSNBC, etc and it becomes very obviouse what side of the politcal ladder they hail. OH maybe not, if you hail the same side. And it is more a question of what they DO NOT show more than what they do show. I'll just leave it a that for now.

 

[MrsGorilla]

Don't you think if the kids parent taught him respect, this would have happened?

Were you always respectful at 15?

 

[MrsGorilla]

Not humor, but actually the attempt to show there are actually two sides to everything. Now his action, a little on the extrem side, perhapes maybe his only response as he saw it. If he truly felt bullied by this kid and his parents for five years, maybe in his mind he had no other recourse.

You're right to an extent, but in the end we are still just talking about a LAWN here.

 

[MrsGorilla]

Quotes by neigbors said he was a good neighbor also.

True, but it seems like everyone always says that about every nutball that goes on a killing spree. Sometimes there are signs that have been ignored, but other times someone just picks up a gun and starts blasting. Take that guy in Seattle who just killed all those people. No one thought he would be capable of something like that either, but in the end he did it and then killed himself so no one will ever really know why but him.

 

[dan-cat]

You're right to an extent, but in the end we are still just talking about a LAWN here.

He should have done anything and everything but what he did.
Build a fence, take neighbours to court, tazered the kids arse, move home...
Anything but open fire on the kid.

He pulled the trigger, nobody pulled it for him, he has to take the responsibility for his actions.

 

[FoFa]

Were you always respectful at 15?

Respectful or grounded, one of the two. And I might have had a passing moment, but I assure you it didn't last 5 years. Think about it, to last 5 years there had to be parental involvment of somekind. A 10 year old (15 - 5) won't bully and keep harressing someone that long without at least the parents input. I mean if a neighbor called and asked me to keep my kid off their lawn, I would talk to them and tell them just stay off, it isn't worth the hassle. But (I am assuming, have not seen anything on this, it's just conjecture) what if his parents were sying things like, "he is such an A hole", "doesn't he have better things to do than harres the kids", "someone should put that A hole in his place", etc. What message than does this leave the kids? I would think it would fuel the fire, so to speak.

 

[KenHigg]

You're right to an extent, but in the end we are still just talking about a LAWN here.

The man that shot the kid should go to jail and the father of the kid should be clipped...

 

[FoFa]

You're right to an extent, but in the end we are still just talking about a LAWN here.

A "just a lawn" to you, maybe his entire world (right wrong or indifferent). The fact that his lawn was immaculate, should point to something. I am not justifying his actions, I am only saying this sounds like one of those things that could have been "nipped in the bud" a long time ago by just being neighborly instead of having a 5 year argument over a lawn. Truthfully, way didn't he stay on the sidewalk or street? I just think there is more here than the story is telling.

 

[KenHigg]

A "just a lawn" to you, maybe his entire world (right wrong or indifferent). The fact that his lawn was immaculate, should point to something. I am not justifying his actions, I am only saying this sounds like one of those things that could have been "nipped in the bud" a long time ago by just being neighborly instead of having a 5 year argument over a lawn. Truthfully, way didn't he stay on the sidewalk or street? I just think there is more here than the story is telling.

Of course there is. A liberal media agenda...

 

[jsanders]

Respectful or grounded, one of the two. And I might have had a passing moment, but I assure you it didn't last 5 years. Think about it, to last 5 years there had to be parental involvment of somekind. A 10 year old (15 - 5) won't bully and keep harressing someone that long without at least the parents input. I mean if a neighbor called and asked me to keep my kid off their lawn, I would talk to them and tell them just stay off, it isn't worth the hassle. But (I am assuming, have not seen anything on this, it's just conjecture) what if his parents were sying things like, "he is such an A hole", "doesn't he have better things to do than harres the kids", "someone should put that A hole in his place", etc. What message than does this leave the kids? I would think it would fuel the fire, so to speak.

All of this is irrelevant. Even abiding by the code of the West, killing is reserved for people that would harm your family. No other killing can be justified in any context.

 

[FoFa]

All of this is irrelevant. Even abiding by the code of the West, killing is reserved for people that would harm your family. No other killing can be justified in any context.

It's not about justification, it's about understanding. For all we know the guy could be 3 stories short in a 2 story building. Instead of focusing on the fact the guy shot the young adult, what can be learned to prevent future eisodes of same ilk? The guy will go through courts and get his due, but are going to learn anything from this whole thing? If the only thing you focus on is the guy shot this young adult, he deserves leathal injection (just for agruments sake), what is the point? How ever if we tell everyone he was harrassed for 5 years, had his back against the wal, felt he had no way out, and it might not have happened if the parents apologised years ago and talked to their son to stay out of his way. But have really come to the point where we don't care if there is a lesson to be learned or not? Even if it means hearing things we don't really want to hear?

 

[MrsGorilla]

A "just a lawn" to you, maybe his entire world (right wrong or indifferent).

Wow, does he need to get a life. I guess though, now he may get life.

The fact that his lawn was immaculate, should point to something. I am not justifying his actions, I am only saying this sounds like one of those things that could have been "nipped in the bud" a long time ago by just being neighborly instead of having a 5 year argument over a lawn.

Yes, and he could have been neighborly by not killing his neighbor's 15 year old son. Could things have been handled better on both sides? Probably. Is that an excuse for murder? Never.

Truthfully, way didn't he stay on the sidewalk or street? I just think there is more here than the story is telling.

Maybe there wasn't a sidewalk. I haven't seen any pictures so I can't comment on that. I remember one time when I was a kid though (probably 7 or 8) I was walking through someone's yard on the way home from my elementary school because I was told by my mother to walk on the grass if there wasn't a sidewalk. Obviously, she told me that because people drive so crazy sometimes and especially since the street our house was on was sort of a main street through our neighborhood and people often drove too fast on it. Anyway, this old fart came out and stopped me and told me he didn't want me walking on his lawn (and it was the first time I had ever walked on his lawn) because he saw kids doing it all the time and he didn't appreciate it because of the time he spent working on keeping it "perfect". I remember even at that age thinking that the guy was extremely anal (although I might not have known that exact word back then) and being upset for getting scolded by a stranger for something that my mother instructed me to do. I ended up not ever walking in that man's yard again because I would walk a different way to avoid it if I needed to but even after I got up into high school I dreamed of driving my car up into his yard and ruining his "perfect" grass. Of course, I would never do that because of the way I was raised.

 

[FoFa]

Yes, and he could have been neighborly by not killing his neighbor's 15 year old son. Could things have been handled better on both sides? Probably. Is that an excuse for murder? Never.

Never said it was an excuse (in all serousness)

I ended up not ever walking in that man's yard again because I would walk a different way to avoid it if I needed to but even after I got up into high school I dreamed of driving my car up into his yard and ruining his "perfect" grass. Of course, I would never do that because of the way I was raised.

And there it is. What would the outcome of this been had that 15 year old done the same?

 

[dan-cat]

But have really come to the point where we don't care if there is a lesson to be learned or not? Even if it means hearing things we don't really want to hear?

I think a lesson to be learnt here is that there is no guarantee that other people are going to treat you with the respect that you think you deserve and you should make allowances for that in your decision-making process.

ie. Making sure the fact that unpleasant individuals are complicating one's life doesn't persuade one into adopting a malicious attitude oneself.

 

[MrsGorilla]

And there it is. What would the outcome of this been had that 15 year old done the same?

Perhaps the outcome would have been different. However, what about the old man? What kind of upbringing must he have had in order to think it's acceptable to blast a 15 year old boy and take his life because he walked in his yard? It's not as if he was living in the country where you don't expect trespassers. He didn't have a fence around his yard, or at least I'm assuming he didn't as he had people walking in his yard. He probably didn't even have a sign stating that trespassers will be shot. The truth of the matter is, I think he probably isn't "all there" mentally any more.

 

[dan-cat]

And there it is. What would the outcome of this been had that 15 year old done the same?

Nah, I'm sorry. The primary cause for this boys death is that the dude pulled the trigger. I don't think you can dilute his responsibility for that decision by putting forth a hypothetical situation.

The boy was walking across his grass. It was the man's problem - regardless of whether he asked for it not. Just like if someone drives into the back of my car. It's still my problem and my full responsibility to resolve my own issue in a civil manner. You need to take responsibility for your own situation and accept that others will encroach on your ideals from time to time.

 

[MrsGorilla]

Nah, I'm sorry. The primary cause for this boys death is that the dude pulled the trigger. I don't think you can dilute his responsibility for that decision by putting forth a hypothetical situation.

The boy was walking across his grass. It was the man's problem - regardless of whether he asked for it not. Just like if someone drives into the back of my car. It's still my problem and my full responsibility to resolve my own issue in a civil manner. You need to take responsibility for your own situation and accept that others will encroach on your ideals from time to time.

Exactly. Thanks for saying it in such a concise manner. I realize that FoFa is playing the devil's advocate to an extent, but I don't think there is anything that would justify the murder of a 15 year old boy just for walking on someone's grass.

 

[FoFa]

Perhaps the outcome would have been different. However, what about the old man? What kind of upbringing must he have had in order to think it's acceptable to blast a 15 year old boy and take his life because he walked in his yard?

I think it is pretty obvouse that old guy wasn't thinking. I mean, lets see, I care about my lawn, what happens to it when I am in jail? So either he was not thinking, or he cared more about killing the 15 year old than his yard. What do you think?